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dash
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Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:18 pm

Hi guys,
I wanted to ask if there are plans to offer Mikrotik Hardware with integrated or even discrete VDSL/DSL Modem in the future? I am very confident there is a market for such a product, since there are many people that do need a full blown router but only need the Modem portion.

Currently it is impossible to get robust and simple devices that only provide Modem functionality.

Thanks
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:46 am

It is unclear to me why people who need only a modem and no fullblown router would buy from MikroTik, who focus
on fullblown routers.
However, I do see some use of a MikroTik router like the RB2011 or RB3011 but with built-in VDSL modem.
How large such a market would be I cannot estimate... often internet providers include a limited functionality
modem/NAT-router with their subscription so lots of people would not want to spend money again even if they
get better routing.

The Draytek Vigor 130 is a separate VDSL modem. I use one with my RB2011 to connect to internet. It can
bridge the VDSL connection (straight or PPPoE) over to the MikroTik router where I terminate it with a PPPoE
interface.

Everything in one box would be nice, however there is a lot of expertise in VDSL modems and it may be that
a new company entering that market will have a somewhat long learning experience before the performance
is up to par with the current players.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:16 pm

An integrated VDSL modem in mikrotik products would be useless for 90% of providers. Most providers nowdays use a 802.1x certificate for authentication. The authentication certificate renders an aftermarket modem useless as it is provided on the modem by the ISP.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:02 pm

In the UK FTTC delivered over VDSL is no longer supplied with a modem.

Its up to the user to provide their own.

So a MikroTIk with builtin adsl/vdsl modem, or even a simple 1port modem would be great.

Nick
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:09 pm

topic previously discussed many times on the forum.

i think integrated mikrotik dsl modem on some routers would have been great on 2008 year when dsl was on rise

2016 year
optical fiber is on rise, because that mikrotik has released the gpon sfp module.

i think its too late to invest R&D resources on dsl technologies
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:16 pm

A VDSL modem as an SFP module would be the nicest. However, it may be too small to fit it in there.
Maybe an SFP module and a short cable to a small external box with some of the components and the RJ-11 connector?

It would enable the use of VDSL with some different MikroTik products without yet another power supply.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:45 pm

+1

I want to get rid of ISP bridged VDSL modem :?
Or just a small black box with RJ11 on one side and RJ45 on other side (PoE powered) :D
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:44 pm

I think the question of the market for DSL really depends on where you are in the world. In smaller countries, fiber is much easier to roll out and connect than it is in a larger country and the demand for DSL is low.

DSL in North America is still heavily utilized in the US, Canada and Mexico and probably will be for another 10 to 15 years because there is so much area to cover. Contrast that with a country like Latvia which is very well connected via fiber and has almost no DSL because the land area and cost is much smaller.

In fact, I had a conversation with several of the MT guys at the US MUM last year and the reason MikroTik heavily uses Ethernet in its products is due to the state of IP networking in Latvia around the time MikroTik started developing hardware in the early 2000s. Apparently after the fall of the Soviet Union, Latvia started investing in its telecommunications infrastructure and Ethernet was used to connect most of the country and DSL was not really used at all.

DSL is still heavily developed and they just reached 10 gig speeds on DSL last year:

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... gabit-dsl/

There is so much engineering that has to go into the modem side of xDSL technologies, i don't think MT sees a huge amount of value in entering a market that already has a very diverse field of competitors.
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:48 pm

Using an external bridged modem never bothered us much, but what we (a phone company) wanted was an FXS interface or two for analog line delivery, but it's understandable why Mikrotik wouldn't support such a thing. Honestly, I'd rather they spend more time shoring up and advancing the features they already have than entering yet another hardware branch, especially one as radically different as DSL.
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you should not cling to your fork.
The soup will get cold.
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:48 am

Honestly, I'd rather they spend more time shoring up and advancing the features they already have than entering yet another hardware branch, especially one as radically different as DSL.
I agree, that is why I think it might be an idea to have DSL as an SFP module, just like is done with GPON.
However, those GPON modules are relabeled devices bought elsewhere, and I don't know if a VDSL module like that exists on the market.

Telephone: I am using a cheap (Grandstream) IP phone which connects directly on ethernet. No need for FXS port...
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:36 pm

judging from g.fast generations performance and alikes - i think copper still serve LOOONG time, atleast for last 150m-400m-1km "last mile" :=)
same bout DOCSIS 3.1 and other legacy things :=)
ana R&D and improvements and standardization - keep flowing, albeit slower
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:37 am

I was looking for the VDSL2 SFP solution so I could use MT as my condo and apartment solution.

This is the only thing I could find.

http://www.comnet.net/products/SFP/CL-SFP.pdf
 
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dash
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:47 pm

I am about to use the Draytek Vigor 130 VDSL modem now. As suggested by pe1chl (thanks). As of today it runs very well, robust and stable...
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:09 pm

We use the VC-231 VDSL2 modems. They can be paired to form a bridge with one side set in CO node. Very nice when you don't need a 8 to 24 port DSLAM.

http://www.planet.com.tw/en/product/pro ... p?id=26560
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:26 pm

An ADSL/VDSL SFP is indeed possible.

Metanoia make a chipset and have a reference design specifically for this application.

http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21

This would be an easy way for Mikrotik to add DSL support to existing products such as the RB, CCR and CRS.

Email sales@mikrotik.com and let them know if such a product interests you.
http://thebrotherswisp.com/ | Mikrotik MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCINE | Fortinet FTCNA, FCNSP, FCT | Extreme Networks ENA
 
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dash
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:05 pm

Nice find dude! I would definitely order some of these SFP VDSL modules!
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:08 pm

They have 3 types of chip sets. Two of them can operate in CPE or CO mode. I don't think the SFP can do CO mode. Not a deal killer but would be nice if it would do CO mode. I could use a 24 port SFP cage switch and mix and match modules, VDSL2, Fiber and Ethernet. I would use the RB's with SFP ports for my customer side.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:48 am

They have 3 types of chip sets. Two of them can operate in CPE or CO mode. I don't think the SFP can do CO mode. Not a deal killer but would be nice if it would do CO mode. I could use a 24 port SFP cage switch and mix and match modules, VDSL2, Fiber and Ethernet. I would use the RB's with SFP ports for my customer side.
That's an amazing find! Do you know of any suppliers that actually sell one of these SFP modules or have them planned?
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:49 am

That's an amazing find! Do you know of any suppliers that actually sell one of these SFP modules or have them planned?
Metanoia only make the chipset. These are then used by the likes of Huawei, Planet and TP-Link in products that ship.

The best thing you can do is email Mikrotik sales at the above address and let them know this is a product you would buy.

Ideally Mikrotik will sell SFP using this chipset and add support to RouterOS for it. This is required to set the DSL options and monitor the line stats via the SFP modules I2C interface.
http://thebrotherswisp.com/ | Mikrotik MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCINE | Fortinet FTCNA, FCNSP, FCT | Extreme Networks ENA
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:38 pm

Hi all,

As Nick suggested a discrete VDSL type module would be great now that BT have stopped supplying VDSL modems in the UK for their FTTC services. Lots of ISPs in the UK have been using MikroTik for MPLS network installations, I'm sure this business will stop rapidly if they can no longer supply a single unit to site.

Perhaps SFP module for VDSL/VDSL2 support?

Thanks

Pete.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:02 am

I think I will downgrade from DOCSIS to vectoring (not because I don't need the speed or price, and TV offer would be better, actually).

A GBIC would be nice. Vectoring ist definitely not on the way out, but the opposite.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:36 am

+1 for VDSL2 modem option

The SFP option looks very nice (combined with a RB2011 for example).

We currently use RB2011 with a Draytek 130
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:07 am

gFast2 was quite fast thing.
so i would call moving from DOCSIS "downgrade" if you ISP - support and provide gFast xDSL speeds.
unless very recent DOCSIS 3.1 employed in "fat" bonded modes, which is quite unusual even for docsis 2, generally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.fast
the only downside is - limited number of offered modems(DSLAM choices are ~ enough(for practical usage)).
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:20 am

It is a downgrade from 500/50 to 100/20.

Where it might be an upgrade is in actual bandwidth to other continents.

Or latency.

And support.

And TV, as I said.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:13 am

judging from g.fast generations performance and alikes - i think copper still serve LOOONG time, atleast for last 150m-400m-1km "last mile" :=)
same bout DOCSIS 3.1 and other legacy things :=)
ana R&D and improvements and standardization - keep flowing, albeit slower
anybody thinking this way about copper pair surely has not see the problems about isolation on outdoor cooper wires or/and induction ac or dc problems

i think docsis has a better future because is more resistant to interference
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Thu May 05, 2016 7:16 am

judging from g.fast generations performance and alikes - i think copper still serve LOOONG time, atleast for last 150m-400m-1km "last mile" :=)
same bout DOCSIS 3.1 and other legacy things :=)
ana R&D and improvements and standardization - keep flowing, albeit slower
anybody thinking this way about copper pair surely has not see the problems about isolation on outdoor cooper wires or/and induction ac or dc problems

i think docsis has a better future because is more resistant to interference
not over optical networks, especially conventional "active optical networks", reasonaly dominating market for number of advantages.
as for g.Fast and g.Fast 2 comparisons - i think at comparable speeds - amount of interference would be minimal unless you're talking about Very huge/dense cables and/or very high speed, yet unusual even for g.fast endpoints, sadly.
also ethernet had drawbacks over docsis only if you use unshielded cables, which is allowed only for OFFICE used Only(NOT for residental deployment. NOT for outdoor deployment. NOT for "last mile" cable/conversion).
and STP and Cat7 cables - quite EMI-resistant and emit - Much less. same about 6e derrivativers with improvements.
so far DOCSIS is extremely handy as "legacy conversion" thing where problematic technically to lay any more cables at cost of Very segmented networks and reduced # of consumer per aggregating modem/gate, its suffer anyway with HUGE issues both on L1 and L2 by basic nature of this technology, implied by both shared medium and control methods. however in DOCSIS 3.0 and 3.1 derrivatives - they shifted away from CSMA remnats compltely(TDMA and S-CDMA mix in upstream - considered relatimely low-latency with predictible response)to slightly reduce issues on L2 and frequency management in DOCSIS - improved in 3.0 aswell as BPi/SEC improvements, jointly developed with alikes in WiMax - contributed(along with other ethernet sig's memberss)to all 802.1x development/improvements and lead to 802.1x-2010 creation eventually(and all those "PortSec", "MacSec" things and other stuff aside that, ajaced around 802.1x-2010 which ough to reinfroce it Further).
if you had to "put DOSIS 3.0 to extremes" in terms of speed - amount of customers per aggregating modem - become quite small, up to 16 or even 8 per one and todays 64(todays even 512 isn't uncommon in some networks)become "not a option" anymore to achieve "advertised performance" and to go Further "modem per block" or even "modem per building storey" become a MUST. DOCSIS did not scale much and going up only by bonding and bonding imply pre-occupied/converged amounts of HW/spectrum/time "per customer" become bigger in modem-space/freq/time.


from angle/point you speaking i think technology like HomePlug would fit well. but modern implementations like ITU-T G.hn developed VERY slowly in favor of DOCSIS and alikes. which isn't good much :(
HomePNA 3.1 also support PHY's working over Coax, aside twisted pairs(random of. from phone lines, power lines and whatever else mix of 2-8-12 pairs(depend devices used for)).
so G.Fast-grade HomePNA -derrivative for Coax would be better, yep. if you insist on such medium for some reasons and dislike Ethernet derrrivatives like HomePlug/EoC.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Tue May 10, 2016 7:25 pm

anybody thinking this way about copper pair surely has not see the problems about isolation on outdoor cooper wires or/and induction ac or dc problems

i think docsis has a better future because is more resistant to interference
Which is all very well, but try explaining that to an ISP with millions of copper pairs deployed. ISPs are going to wring every last $/£/€ out of their pairs, and that means DSL for the foreseeable future, and that means that *I* need something small, cheap and simple to interface my ethernet-only Mikrotiks with the outside world.
Now that the incumbent operator in my country has stopped supplying VDSL modems with new installs [and doesn't seem to have reduced the costs accordingly] this search has become more acute. The Draytek 130 will do the job but it's twice the price of the routers I deploy which irks me somewhat.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sun May 15, 2016 1:42 am

DSL is still everywhere here in the states. Also it's frequently the only network medium available in an area due to the virtual monopolies ISPs have. Adding DSL Modulation/Demodulation to RouterOS would be extremely helpful for our company.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon May 23, 2016 12:51 pm

DSL G.Fast stays in telecom "for long". not only in both americans and in Asia.
after G.Fast 2 there was proposed G.Fast 3 evolution and etc i think.
but trancievers/modems/Phy become(cause more complex modulation, error control and other improvements) more complicated/sophisticated/power-hugry so both amount of transistors and need to make them over 28nm or even 16nm, 14nm, 10nm wafer chips - make it slightly more expensive than usually DSL are(even for "mass-produced devices")because "below 28nm" CMOS semiconductors manufactoring capacity - quite limited, yet.
 
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Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:52 am

http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21

Inviato dal mio XT1562 utilizzando Tapatalk
 
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Re:

Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:14 pm

http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21

Inviato dal mio XT1562 utilizzando Tapatalk
Do you have any experience with that sfp?
 
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Re: Re:

Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:48 pm

http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21

Inviato dal mio XT1562 utilizzando Tapatalk
Do you have any experience with that sfp?
I think it does not actually exist.
It is a proof-of-concept model made by a chip designer hoping that a hardware manufacturer would be making
these and they would be selling the chips to them.
I asked them to name a manufacturer that makes these devices and I did not even get a reply.
Vapourware...
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:46 pm

Draytek have just made a Router/VDSL modem on a PCI-E card, but don't know about pricing yet but it can also bridge, if it's NIC driver is supported by routerOS then maybe X86 builds could be done using it if you did want an all in one box.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:27 am

If it's big enough to fit a PCIE card in, then the box is too big for me. MicroPCIE would work.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:11 pm

Looks like these are available:
https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... CPE+Module

Anyone know if they might work with a MikroTik device?
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:18 pm

I noticed that too when I searched again for this information yesterday!
I am very tempted to order one, but it would probably easiest when someone in the US did that and experimented a bit.

What I could not find from the docs on that site (and on the original metanoia site) is how one can communicate with
the module once it is in an SFP slot. If this is done using IP over ethernet, it should be possible to configure a MikroTik
in such a way that this device would work and be usable (configurable, possible to monitor e.g. the connection rate, etc).
There is some mention of a configuration program (probably only for Windows), but not how it accesses the module.

Tomorrow I will go to the MUM in Amsterdam, and when there is opportunity I will talk to MikroTik people about this
subject. (if it would work, and if they would be interested in selling such a device under the MikroTik name similar to
what they do for other SFP devices including the GPON)
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:14 pm

Will be very interested to hear what they say.

It looks like the OEM for these is this company:
http://www.proscend.com/en-gb/
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:25 pm

I think I have convinced the two technical people at the info desk (active on this forum as well!), but
of course it remains to be seen if they in turn can convince their product manager...
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:59 pm

I love the idea that I can use a RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT for all my connection types. I have customers we connect to with Cat5 that we can plug right into the MT and if we run fiber we can slide in a SFP fiber module and now we can use the SFP VDSL2 module for customers that only have telephone wires ran to their units.

https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... CPE+Module
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:13 am

Are you in the US? Would you be willing to order one and just try it?
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:27 pm

Versa is waiting on stock. As soon as I can get one I will.
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:36 pm

Versa is waiting on stock
Ok I hope this does not mean it is all vapourware...
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:44 pm

This was Versa's reply to my email.
"Hello James,
Currently, we have a pair for verification. We have not try with Mikrotik yet but sounds like a good idea. Should go into production real soon."
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:24 pm

My proxmox host running the CHR has a Draytek vigornic 132 in bridge mode for modem (It's essentially a vigor 130 on a PCI-E card)
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:39 am

My proxmox host running the CHR has a Draytek vigornic 132 in bridge mode for modem (It's essentially a vigor 130 on a PCI-E card)
That is nice for using on a PC platform.
How does it appear in the host system? As an ethernet card? Which driver?
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:49 am

Interesting reply from Proscend.
We have not tested the interoperability with Mikrotik/Ubiquiti Edge routers. The basic requirements/configurations of SFP interface on the Host Device include Serdes(Not SGMII), 1G Forced Mode(Not Auto-Negotiation Mode) and power requirements(3.3V, 700mA). We request our customers to send us host devices for interoperability tests in our lab.

We have only limited quantity of 180-C/180-R available at this moment for sample purpose. 180-T which can support G.Inp and G.Vector will become available in Feb, 2017. Neverthelesss,180-R can serve as an evaluation version of 180-T. You can try it out the interoperability with your host device as well as the VDSL2 IP DSLAMs. By Feb of 2017, 180-R and 180-T will be the same hardware but loaded with different firmware to serve different applications.
 
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:47 am

FYI all of these are based on the same Metanoia chipset.
http://thebrotherswisp.com/ | Mikrotik MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCINE | Fortinet FTCNA, FCNSP, FCT | Extreme Networks ENA
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:19 pm

Interesting reply from Proscend.
That is interesting indeed!
It appears I have to wait at least until february because I require VDSL2 with vectoring.
Hopefully MikroTik will do some evaluation as well, it appears to be easiest that they get some test devices and
test them in their existing hardware lab and report on compatability.
 
n4p
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:56 pm

I really hope that this would be available in few days.
Currently that's the only issue that i didn't use mikrotik routers/switch in home area.
Because I need few more devices, switch, router, modem. And so it would be able to do all with one.
 
pe1chl
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Re: Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:07 pm

I really hope that this would be available in few days.
Forget about that! The device is predicted to be available from the factory next february, that schedule could slip.
Then it has to be evaluated by MikroTik, possibly software has to be adapted, and a distributor contract has to
be signed, devices made with MikroTik label, and shipped via distributors. IF it all works well and it is decided to move
forward with this.

You have to be patient. The only thing I can assure it that it has the attention of several people within MikroTik.
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