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storp
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1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:53 am

I'm getting a 1 Gbit/s fibre connection installed soon and are investigating if I need to upgrade the router. I currently use a RB2011UiAS-RM. Currently the router serves approx. 15-20 concurrent clients, nat, ospf, ipv4 and ipv6, capsman with 3 aps connected. I want to be able to fully utilize the bandwidth and don't be bottlenecked by the router so do I need a upgrade? If so would a RB3011 be good enough or do I need to step up to RB1100AHx2 (or any other model)? Thanks in advance!
 
pe1chl
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:00 pm

The 2011 will not be able to fully use the 1 Gbit connection.
On the other hand, you can ask yourself if you ever need that.
With good tweaking the 2011 will be able to run at about half the speed of your connection, still very fast.

When buying something else, I think I would go for a CCR1009, but it also depends on what other functions
(e.g. WiFi) you need, and if you want to use it as a switch or you have a separate switch.
Of course the 3011 is a good choice as well.
 
storp
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:37 pm

Thankful for your advice. I know even half the speed is very fast but as I wrote I really don't want the router to be the bottleneck. Yes I've looked at the CCR1009 but it's a bit expensive. But since we can rule out the RB2011 some kind of replacement is needed. I do have switches in place so the router just needs to be router. Will the RB3011 be able to provide enough throughput or will it bottleneck the bandwidth?
 
quackyo
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:38 pm

RB3011 should do the trick. With Fasttrack enabled and no queues at least.
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:34 pm

"RB3011 should do the trick. With Fasttrack enabled and no queues at least."

Same problem here, a customer is getting a 1000/200mbit connection and we need a proper router. I also checked 3011. We have no queues, about 15-20 forward rules and maybe 200 clients (desktop / notebook / mobile devices). So 3011 should be able to use the full bandwidth. That's good :)

BTW I did a check with an RB951G-2HnD a few years ago and if I remember correctly I got about 4-500mbit routing throughput (350mbps with PPPoE). With queues it went down to about 70mbps.
One... Hundred... BILLION DOLLARS!
 
pe1chl
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:54 pm

Yes I've looked at the CCR1009 but it's a bit expensive
Boy, people are getting spoiled.
I paid 400 euro for a CCR1009 with redundant power supplies (used at work).
That is just peanuts for such a nice router. Be prepared to pay 5 times as much at the competitor.
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:44 pm

I just tested RB3011 for raw throughput between WAN-LAN (with FastTrack and no queues) with CIFS/SMB protocol.
Got ~980mbps (about 113mb/s) with 25% CPU usage copying a 10gb pst file between Windows PCs with SSD.

Next week I'll replace the RB951G at the customer and we'll see how it performs for a 80-100 client network with heavy gmail and gdrive use.

It'd be nice to see how it performs with queues - maybe someone has experience? What can the RB3011 do?
I remember RB951G-2HnD achieved about 70mbps (with a 150mbit internet connection).
One... Hundred... BILLION DOLLARS!
 
jarda
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:23 pm

Running with fasttrack is way different from the cpu point of view than running through the queues. I am looking forward your results...
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:49 am

I've a couple of 3011 on 100/100 fiber connection doing nat, firewall and queue (no fasttrack) and their cpu work in range 25-30% when link is saturated. In same conditions I think 3011 would probably max his cpus at about 300-400 Mbit (aggregate).
I may be wrong but IMHO 3011 is not the right choice for 1Gb connections (w/o fastrack).
 
storp
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:41 pm

I just tested RB3011 for raw throughput between WAN-LAN (with FastTrack and no queues) with CIFS/SMB protocol.
Got ~980mbps (about 113mb/s) with 25% CPU usage copying a 10gb pst file between Windows PCs with SSD.

Next week I'll replace the RB951G at the customer and we'll see how it performs for a 80-100 client network with heavy gmail and gdrive use.

It'd be nice to see how it performs with queues - maybe someone has experience? What can the RB3011 do?
I remember RB951G-2HnD achieved about 70mbps (with a 150mbit internet connection).
How has it performed? Curious to see what real usage shows.
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:18 am

keep in mind CCR1009 is around 3X or 4X the performance of RB3011, that makes it more future proof investment

of course budget defines everything if the budged is enough just for 3011 go for 3011 is the best (and only) option in that price range at mikrotik.

if you have the budget for rb1100ahx2 go for ccr1009 period.

i compiled data for this comparison to make things a little easier
mikrotik router performance price comparison.jpg
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storp
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:14 pm

keep in mind CCR1009 is around 3X or 4X the performance of RB3011, that makes it more future proof investment

of course budget defines everything if the budged is enough just for 3011 go for 3011 is the best (and only) option in that price range at mikrotik.

if you have the budget for rb1100ahx2 go for ccr1009 period.

i compiled data for this comparison to make things a little easier

mikrotik router performance price comparison.jpg
Thanks, great comparison! I'll see if the budget will be enough to go for a more enterprise grade solution with ccr1009.
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:33 pm

I have both the 1100 ahx2 and now the ccr1009. In my opinion look at what you wanting to do and then plan for adding firewall rules as well as tunnels and possibly some queues in the future. When you take that into account and look at your through put as well as future expansion the ccr1009 with dual power supplies for redundancy is a sound investment.
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:08 am

FYI:
I just upgraded my RB1100AHx2 to a CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+ on a 1000/500 connection (dual wan, a lot of filters, 300+ tunnels, thousands of routes, NAT, no fasttrack...).
The 1100 did some 900Mbps at 70% top processor load, while the 1009 gets 925Mbps at 7% load tops.
So I would say both can do the job pretty well (and I really didn't needed that upgrade except for the fiber ports and the dude...).
Torturing CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+, RB450G, RB750GL, RB951G-2HnD, RB960PGS, RB260GSP, OmniTIK 5HnD and NetMetal 922UAGS-5HPacD + R11e-5HnD in my home network.
 
pe1chl
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:07 am

I just upgraded my RB1100AHx2 to a CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+
Congratulations on that one! I have the older CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+ at work and it is a really nice box.
The 7G-1C model would have been even better. It runs several networks (LAN, guest WiFi, camera, building control etc)
with two redundant internet connections, and barely gets loaded.
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:11 am

Hi!

Did you ever benchmark IPSEC "single-stream-performance" on the CCR1009s?

Regards,
 
pe1chl
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:41 pm

The CCR1009 can encrypt/decrypt a lot of traffic per second, but remember it does this as a distributed
task over the available processors, and as a result the packets will be re-ordered on the link.
When they all belong to a single stream, the resulting performance will depend on the behaviour of the
receiving system when receiving such a re-ordered packet stream.
With a Linux end-system it will perform much better than with a Windows end-system.

When you have real-life traffic consisting of a lot of independent streams each of a lower bitrate together
forming a high rate stream being encrypted, you will be much less affected because the individual
streams experience less re-ordering.
 
Zorro
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:23 pm

also keep in mind that "second generation" of both CCR1009 and CCR1016 also bring more performance, not just resiliency and security, management improvements.
as for ARM platform: since generic/cheap SoC start shifting to A53 cores and perhaps from 2x core to 4x core - it may fit such requirements in result. (saw STB and ISP CPE(ODM))
simpler chips, even A35 and A32 unlikely, even with relatively ~ high-frequency.
both 2x-4x 1004k and 64bit arch SoC among newer MIPS chips are do more promising bang per/Mhz/transistor, thanks to further re-shuffled ISA in MIPS r6 and r7 will be incrementally more attractive to, than before.
not sure about OpenPower-driven power8/9 SoC, since they aimed, yet(contrary to initial IBM hopes)mostly to F500 corporations needs, rather than explode horisontally or verically to be "more competive in most senses", but they had some good sides(pricing aren't among them, yet, sadly).
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:51 am

also keep in mind that "second generation" of both CCR1009 and CCR1016 also bring more performance, not just resiliency and security, management improvements.
as for ARM platform: since generic/cheap SoC start shifting to A53 cores and perhaps from 2x core to 4x core - it may fit such requirements in result. (saw STB and ISP CPE(ODM))
simpler chips, even A35 and A32 unlikely, even with relatively ~ high-frequency.
both 2x-4x 1004k and 64bit arch SoC among newer MIPS chips are do more promising bang per/Mhz/transistor, thanks to further re-shuffled ISA in MIPS r6 and r7 will be incrementally more attractive to, than before.
not sure about OpenPower-driven power8/9 SoC, since they aimed, yet(contrary to initial IBM hopes)mostly to F500 corporations needs, rather than explode horisontally or verically to be "more competive in most senses", but they had some good sides(pricing aren't among them, yet, sadly).
I'm new to Mikrotik and looking to buy a CCR1016. What do you mean by "Second Generation"?
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:50 pm

I'm new to Mikrotik and looking to buy a CCR1016. What do you mean by "Second Generation"?

A second revision, newer hardware, SoC, etc.
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:43 pm

If by 2nd generation CCR perhaps you mean The tilera 1.5 Ghz CPU variants? I would think mikrotik finally learnt how to cool the CPUs rather than having to modify the CCR to get superior cooling and silence.

The CPUs are simply not equal in IPC performance for networking. In terms of architecture if running at the same clocks, core, etc the fastest MT has is PPC, then TILE, then MIPS, then ARM. ARM is actually slower than MIPS but the ARM routers come with more cores and frequency than MIPS. The order only changes when more complex tasks are given such as QoS which ARM will do faster than MIPS.

The ARM architecture used doesnt really affect the performance that much. Linksys was getting 1Gb/s using ARM A7s while other premium routers were using broadcom ARM A9 which couldnt do 1Gb/s with PPPOE as networking in a simple way doesnt require out of order processing as the tasks are all streamlined but when you have QoS and other complicated processing than things change.
I went around looking and didnt see any new SoC or CPU from tilera that would seem like something MT would use in the CCR unless they are bringing out even higher end products that have many more cores to handle 10x more bandwidth but that would be unlikely as it would cost so much.

I bought the CCR1036 when it came out so i have an early variant which i modified and have changed the PSU. heres a picture with the chip model visible
Image
The fans in the picture werent the ones i used for the CCR, i used scythe fans instead. If you search through Tilera that already is the best tile-gx SoC they offer so unless MT is moving to another type of Tile CPU but there arent any suitable variants for use in the same range that is newer. Very likely MT will just fix the flaws from the first generation of CCRs such as the crappy PSU and cooling and lack of non networking IO and probably include faster ram (tile-Gx SoC states 1866mhz DDR3 and MT is using 1333mhz DDR3).
 
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Re: 1 Gbit/s connection, need router upgrade?

Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:02 am

I'm new to Mikrotik and looking to buy a CCR1016. What do you mean by "Second Generation"?
sorry for misleading and bloated post.
im mostly mean CCR1009 line changes, in CCR1016 its was more subtle, but Tilera keep improving their chips, eg smaller transistors men more speed and lower heat/power.
as for CCR1009 changes they covered in #74 ща MicroTik newsletter

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