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More info about mUPS

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:22 pm
by Technetium
The mUPS device it's very interesting.
I couldn't attend at MUM in Milano due to some work commitments.
Can we have more info about it?

Will the mUPS monitor the battery voltage and send alert message over ethernet (like low voltage, running on batt, no dc power..) ? Or will have a continuous monitor interface ?
Can mUPS share a battery with other mUPS device ?
Will be the output voltage adjustable ( 24/48/56 V) ? Step of regulator (1..2.. 5 V) ? Max output current ?

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:48 am
by normis
It can't send anything, there is no software on it. It is a passive device. It will monitor the battery and show a LED light when it is full. It will also monitor the battery temperature, and adjust the charging rate based on that. A temperature sensor is planned to be included.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:25 pm
by nordex
ok.
Then maybe info like

max charging current
max output current
12/24V ?

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:50 pm
by Technetium
If it is completly passive and give no remote signal, from my point of view, isn't very useful.
If the radio are running on battery i want to know it..

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:30 am
by jondavy
Charger and step-up converter I find anywhere,
I thought he was going to have at least one remote monitoring software
Because we need to have remote management of the towers and what happens in them,
I do not see an advantage in buying it if it is not manageable

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:31 pm
by Oversite
If it is completly passive and give no remote signal, from my point of view, isn't very useful.
If the radio are running on battery i want to know it..
You can easily script that in the powered mikrotik if it runs on 24v, if you script code to check the voltage, running on mUPS you get about 12 and not 24 as otherwise.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:53 pm
by jayceep14
can mUPS shared the same battery?
I have big battery can i use this one with multiple mUPS? do they combine the charging capability as well?

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:27 pm
by pe1chl
That is probably not to be recommended. Use the mUPS with a 7Ah or 18Ah battery.
When you have a much bigger battery get a dedicated charger and DC-DC converter to make 24v
and power your equipment from that.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:18 pm
by dl1nux
Hi,

mUPS sounds interesting. Is it possible to power possibly a PowerBox at which probably 4 wireless systems are connected wit PoE?
So is it possible to power 5 routerboards at the same time with one mUPS? Or is the current output limited anyway? 2A current (at 24V) should be ok for this constellation.

Thanks in advance.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:43 pm
by pe1chl
Sorry... it does "only" 700mA so not useful for that purpose.
See https://mikrotik.com/product/mups (brochure)

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:47 pm
by dl1nux
@pe1chl:
Sorry, I don't find this information anywhere. A brochure isn't linked on the mikrotik site. And the product description also doesn't tell anything about this.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:04 pm
by pe1chl
I gave the link to the product page (got it from the newsletter - sure some products from the newsletter still have to be placed on the hardware page!)
and on that page there is a link to the PDF brochure which has the specs.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:08 pm
by dl1nux
Ok Sorry, the brochure link has moved from the left side to a button on the right side of tha page.
As we say in DL .... I had tomatoes on my eyes :-)
vy73

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:26 pm
by pe1chl
Can always happen... I think dl1nux is your amateur radio callsign :-)
I am mainly active on networking (HAMNET) and multisite repeaters (like PI2NOS)
So 73!

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:28 am
by normis
The direct link to the PDF brochure: https://i.mt.lv/routerboard/files/mUPS-170830105108.pdf
It has all the info you need.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:35 pm
by pe1chl
Normis,

That link is also on the product page. But please note that not all products in the newletter that have links to a product
page can be found when starting on the www.mikrotik.com site and navigating through "Hardware" etc.
This probably still has to be finalized.
(e.g. the S-RJ10)

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:35 pm
by normis
Yes, but the question here was about mUPS and the above poster was not able to find the PDF link

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:39 pm
by pe1chl
Yes, but the question here was about mUPS and the above poster was not able to find the PDF link
He had already found it, see posting #13.
However, I noticed the above when I tried to locate certain products while reading a printed copy of the newsletter, so no
way to click on the links. I searched for the products on the main site but they are not all there.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:44 pm
by normis
Yes, some of these products are not yet in the webpage, only in the newsletter. We will add them once we start to ship them.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:00 pm
by townet
Hello,
inside mUPS there are two jumper 1,2A and 2,5A. What is their function ?
Now the max recharge current is only 700mA ?

tx
E.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:07 am
by MulderSk
Hi,

mUPS sounds interesting. Is it possible to power possibly a PowerBox at which probably 4 wireless systems are connected wit PoE?
So is it possible to power 5 routerboards at the same time with one mUPS? Or is the current output limited anyway? 2A current (at 24V) should be ok for this constellation.

Thanks in advance.
Battery 12V 9Ah work time on battery 90min.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:57 am
by normis
Good results! Was this with traffic? Photo does not show any. Try it with full load.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:59 pm
by kevigizmo
Hey Everyone,

So with this as it is passive in terms of it has no OS,
It's described in the brochure ect:
"In RouterOS it is possible to detect when running on battery power by monitoring the input voltage with scripting, since the voltage will change without a RouterOS reboot."

So, as obvious as it sounds, I gather this function purely is looking at what the MT would normally be powered by (say on DC side at 24v) then if the OS (say SXT) see's input voltage drop to say 12v (battery) then that's how it would detect its on UPS? (with appropriate voltage scripts and email script)

Cheers
Kev

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:06 pm
by normis
Yes, Kevin. Exactly.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:11 am
by jspool
For a feature request for v 1.1

Incorporate this into a wAP LTE and add a couple form C relays that are controlled by routeros (Pretend they are POE ports ;) )
Get alerts over LTE when site is having power issues etc.

Primary power script on up, on down

Voltage threshold min max
Voltage script above threshold
Voltage script below threshold


Imagine the possibilities.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:26 pm
by nordex
Hi,

mUPS sounds interesting. Is it possible to power possibly a PowerBox at which probably 4 wireless systems are connected wit PoE?
So is it possible to power 5 routerboards at the same time with one mUPS? Or is the current output limited anyway? 2A current (at 24V) should be ok for this constellation.

Thanks in advance.
Battery 12V 9Ah work time on battery 90min.

Hello. It should work much more time on 9Ah battery.

Your consumption (3.9+2.3+3.1+2.7)=12W for RB + 4 for Hex POE = 16W Total power.
16W / 12V = 1.33A on 12V.
9Ah / 1.33A = 6.7h. Should work at least 6 hrs.

Either battery was not fully charged, or my math is incorrect or Low voltage cut off is set too high on mUPS.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:53 pm
by mistry7
Hello. It should work much more time on 9Ah battery.

Your consumption (3.9+2.3+3.1+2.7)=12W for RB + 4 for Hex POE = 16W Total power.
16W / 12V = 1.33A on 12V.
9Ah / 1.33A = 6.7h. Should work at least 6 hrs.

Either battery was not fully charged, or my math is incorrect or Low voltage cut off is set too high on mUPS.
You could only Use 50% of 9ah If you discharge much more your battery
will Not Long be your friend, mups discharge battery Not 100% to save Battery life

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:47 pm
by nordex
ok, 50% is 3hrs.

1.5hr is 25% of 9ah battery capacity

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:24 am
by MulderSk
Good results! Was this with traffic? Photo does not show any. Try it with full load.
Hi Normis why is not possible connect to mUPS through winbox to ros and manage mUPS ? use monitoring , watchdog and other.How can I monitoring problem with power now ? thanks for answer. In brochure you wrote In RouterOS it is possible to detect when running on battery
power by monitoring the input voltage with scripting, since the
voltage will change without a RouterOS reboot. So how can I connect to RouterOs ?

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:41 pm
by Azma
Good results! Was this with traffic? Photo does not show any. Try it with full load.
Hi Normis why is not possible connect to mUPS through winbox to ros and manage mUPS ?
Hi, the mUPS itself doesn't contains routerOS as you can see on the brochure.

so far i know, MikroTik radios flagship are equipped with 24v power adaptor, you can monitor the volt at system health voltage. if the power of device running is supplied by power adaptor, you can see the voltage value 23v - 24v, but if supplied by battery, it should be 12v.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:33 pm
by Naglya
Hi!
Is there any way to turn off the battery charging :?:
In solar systems, the battery capacity is hundreds of amperes per hour and there is no sense in charging them via mUPS. :(

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:42 pm
by docmarius
@Naglya Put a diode on the wire, so that there is only current flowing from the batteries:

mUPS --------|<------- battery

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:35 am
by neg2led
Hi!
Is there any way to turn off the battery charging :?:
In solar systems, the battery capacity is hundreds of amperes per hour and there is no sense in charging them via mUPS. :(
If you don't need the battery charging feature, you don't need mUPS. Without charging, it's just a dumb PoE injector with dual power inputs - you'd do just as well to hook up both your battery bank and mains supply to your existing PoE injector, with a diode on each supply to prevent reverse-flow. This'll feed the injector with the higher of your two voltage inputs.

Blocking the battery charging feature of mUPS with a diode might cause undesirable results depending on the device circuitry/layout - even if it works fine, which i'd want to hear from MT themselves, you've pretty much spent $29 for a pair of diodes and a waterproof PoE injector.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:09 am
by Naglya
@Naglya Put a diode on the wire, so that there is only current flowing from the batteries:

mUPS --------|<------- battery
Thanks for the response, but I need an industrial solution. It is not possible to mount a diode circuit at each connection point.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:49 pm
by anuser
Hello,

the mUPS looks interesting. But how can I use it wirh 802.3af devices? Is anyone aware of an adapter?

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:02 am
by elkurbo
Hello
I get mUPS for to install for my home for LHG 5nD with 951Ui-2HnD, it is working fine but I can't get voltage value by "/system health get voltage", also tested on OmniTIK U-5HnD r2 and no voltage value
is there any another method to know if my router run on battery or all those products can't support voltage monitor

Best Regards

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:25 am
by Azma
Hello
I get mUPS for to install for my home for LHG 5nD with 951Ui-2HnD, it is working fine but I can't get voltage value by "/system health get voltage", also tested on OmniTIK U-5HnD r2 and no voltage value
is there any another method to know if my router run on battery or all those products can't support voltage monitor

Best Regards
yes, none of your RB has voltage monitor.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:08 pm
by elkurbo
Hello
I get mUPS for to install for my home for LHG 5nD with 951Ui-2HnD, it is working fine but I can't get voltage value by "/system health get voltage", also tested on OmniTIK U-5HnD r2 and no voltage value
is there any another method to know if my router run on battery or all those products can't support voltage monitor

Best Regards
yes, none of your RB has voltage monitor.
Thanks for your reply
This means i can't monitor power status remotely by most used devices, i was planing to implement mUPS in WISP to monitor remote AP in rural area but in this case it is useless for me because most are OmniTIK U-5HnD r2
is there any other way to know if main power failure
and how to know if device support voltage before i buy it

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:38 pm
by AgNeT
Hello, I have been reading your comments and I have mine, the mUPS is controlling and charging the battery while controlling the type of power to the radio? first of all, Thanks

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:23 am
by caspat
Need that device but a little bit more beefy, so we can add 100ah batt and it should be able tu supply power to a powerbox full load!
Maybe Gen2!!?? :)

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:21 am
by mistry7
Need that device but a little bit more beefy, so we can add 100ah batt and it should be able tu supply power to a powerbox full load!
Maybe Gen2!!?? :)
No for full load the Mups is too small, some thing I really not understand!

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:08 pm
by pe1chl
I think you should picture the use of the mUPS in a situation where there is a 7Ah or maybe 14Ah battery.
For such a large installation where you also do not need insertion via PoE you can just obtain a charger/inverter from the usual market (e.g. used in boats and trucks).

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:51 pm
by wpeople
we just set-up the following set on table:
HeX Poe powered with mUPS
OmniTik and one other MT device powered my HeX PoE.

mUPS fed with 24V 30W power supply, and a 12V battery.

In normal case, HeX shows ~25V 3W power output
but if i unplug the power adapter, HeX shows 19V power input and power output.
I can measure ~13.6V at battery!

I tought, mUPS has a relay inside, what connects the battery directly to power line, but it would result 13.6V at HeX.
Now what?

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:07 pm
by mkx
So mUPS might have a DC-DC converter.

BTW, specifications on Web page don't have speciffics, while Brochure has:
PoE out:
  • when input 12-24V = 24V
  • when input > 24 V = same as input
  • when powered by battery = 20V
.
Measured voltage by hEX when on UPS (19V) is slightly suspicious, it should have been 20V. Reasons for it can be various.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:04 pm
by pe1chl
I tought, mUPS has a relay inside, what connects the battery directly to power line, but it would result 13.6V at HeX.
Now what?
Of course it has a DC-DC converter that converts the battery voltage to 20V.
Nothing to worry about.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:41 pm
by wpeople
i didn't read the brochure, my bad. it says:

I didn't expect it to have a DC-DC up-convert for that low price :)

Thanks!

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:59 pm
by pe1chl
I didn't expect it to have a DC-DC up-convert for that low price :)
DC-DC converters that do this can be had for a dollar...

https://aliexpress.com/item/1PCS-XL6009 ... 46491.html

(of course mUPS contains more than a single DC-DC converter)

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:55 pm
by itan
hi
I need info about charging battery from mups:
what input voltage and current from power supply
is enought to start charging process ?
I tested 18v 1000ma - charging started ok. but 16v 1000ma did not,
Battery was 9 a*h and 80% charged.
Such low voltage can be on input of mups located in 70-80m
from 24v 2,5a power adapter.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:48 am
by NetWorker
Sorry for reviving an old thread (though it isn't that old! lol). I've been unable to find any comments on battery size. I know it'll take 7 and 12 Ah batteries. But any thoughts on going to 18 Ah? I realize it's a bit on the high side but we're looking at getting a bit longer run times at a low wattage location.

So... Experience, thoughts, advice on 18 Ah with mUPS?

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:55 pm
by mkx
Brochure says max battery charging current is 1A ... so it'll take ages to charge that "massive" 18Ah battery when fully discharged even if power adapter used is powerful enough.
Other than that, 18Ah battery should be fine.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:18 pm
by NetWorker
Brochure says max battery charging current is 1A ... so it'll take ages to charge that "massive" 18Ah battery when fully discharged even if power adapter used is powerful enough.
Other than that, 18Ah battery should be fine.
Thanks for replying mkx. Actually, I have another question related to the brochure: it says 1A out on PoE. It says nothing about charging the battery. Does it draw the power for charging the battery from that 1A too or if I hook a 24V 2A PSU up to it, I get 700 mA on the PoE and 1A and change on the battery?

My thinking is if it goes down to about 30% and I usually draw the line at 50%, I'd be looking at 12-14 hours recharge times which I can live with.

My main concern with the 18Ah battery is that if it's not well regulated it can draw too high a current during initial charging and melt something inside the mUPS after only 20 cycles or so.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:15 pm
by mkx
I have another question related to the brochure: it says 1A out on PoE. It says nothing about charging the battery.
The brochure has "Specifications" table on the top of second page. Pennultimate row reads "Battery charging current 1 A max" (and ultimate row mentions PoE out max current).
Does it draw the power for charging the battery from that 1A too or if I hook a 24V 2A PSU up to it, I get 700 mA on the PoE and 1A and change on the battery?
The brochure doesn't mention any power in limits (neither barrel-plug nor PoE-in). But let's do some math: for battery charging it'll dedicate max around 15W (13.5V and 1A gives 13.5W and let's add some losses on DC-DC converter). PoE out is limited to 0.7A @24V which is slightly less than 20W (more precisely it's 16.8W). Both combined are less than 35W, which means less than 1.5A @24V. Surprisingly supplied power adapter is rated exactly the same.

So given supplied power adapter and full rated loads on PoE out, your 18Ah battery being flat should fully charge in around 24 hours. Or around 10 hours from 30% to 80% charge.
My main concern with the 18Ah battery is that if it's not well regulated it can draw too high a current during initial charging and melt something inside the mUPS after only 20 cycles or so.
My guess is that any 12V lead-acid battery with capacity of a few Ah can draw much more than 1A when not completely charged if charger blindly applies 14.2V to its terminals (quite often that's voltage used to minimize charging time but it's too high as permanent/idle charging voltage, it causes gassing for most batteries shortening their life time). So I'd expect mUPS to have some current regulation built in or else it'd emit smoke in seconds (and we all know that electronic elements run on smoke ... after they let it out, they stop working).

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:41 pm
by pe1chl
Such a charger normally operates in constant-current mode below a certain voltage, then clamps at a fixed voltage curresponding to fully-charged battery, where the current will drop.
Hopefully not at 14.2v but more like 13.8v.
Of course, a really good charger has more clever characteristics than that, but it is difficult to do it in such an unmanaged device.
(it would require knowledge of battery temperature, type, capacity, etc. so it would require configuration, sensor, etc. by then it is simpler to deliver the unit with built-in battery)

One should be careful not to use a battery with too high capacity, because the behavior of the battery will change when trying to charge it with so low current relative to a large capacity.
But at 18Ah, so charging at 1/18 of the Ah capacity, that should not yet be a big problem.

Re: More info about mUPS

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:56 pm
by NetWorker
Lol, that makes sense. Thanks again! I'll post back if we decide to give it a shot. Right now we're leaning towards a different setup.