MikroTik

RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC just popped up on FCC web site.
they refer to it as hap ac^2
it is supported already by 6.40.4, i found no data on cpu, could be one like the Qualcomm IPQ-40xx maybe but neither of them is triple chain: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/ipq4019

Looks good, although it is a pity there seems to be no SFP port.
Dual core arm looks good, WIFI looks good, but would be nice if external antennas could be added.

Probably same processor as in hEX?

What is the fcc id?

What is the fcc id?

https://fccid.io/TV7RBD52-5ACD2ND

Probably same processor as in hEX?

that's mmips.

Indeed...

RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC just popped up on FCC web site.
they refer to it as hap ac^2
it is supported already by 6.40.4, i found no data on cpu, could be one like the Qualcomm IPQ-40xx maybe but neither of them is triple chain: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/ipq4019

Why would it be triple chain? Model name suggests 2x2 2.4/5 GHz.

Looks like a no-frills version of the hAP AC to me. No SFP, TC case but still gigabit.

Speaking of ARM goodies, the QCA9984 (4x4 wave2) Routerboard still hasn't surfaced.

I suspect a whole slew of new ARM based products will be announced at the EU MUM in April.

Products we know for sure:
cAP ac
hAP ac2
SXTsq ac
LHG 5ac

Products I think we may see, in order of likeliness:

CCR grade router with 64bit ARM processor and multiple "next-gen" interfaces, e.g. SFP28, QSFP28
RB2011 replacement with ARM processor (possibly something along the lines of the CRS109 but with ARM CPU)
Omnitik ac2
mANTBox 15/19 ac2
BaseBox/Netmetal ac2
RB M33 type board with ARM processor
RB M11 type board with ARM processor
wAP ac2

I suspect a whole slew of new ARM based products will be announced at the EU MUM in April.

Products we know for sure:
cAP ac
hAP ac2
SXTsq ac
LHG 5ac

Products I think we may see, in order of likeliness:

CCR grade router with 64bit ARM processor and multiple "next-gen" interfaces, e.g. SFP28, QSFP28
RB2011 replacement with ARM processor (possibly something along the lines of the CRS109 but with ARM CPU)
Omnitik ac2
mANTBox 15/19 ac2
BaseBox/Netmetal ac2
RB M33 type board with ARM processor
RB M11 type board with ARM processor
wAP ac2

They better start with ROS7 in this year, ARM Products only badly supported, and Wave 2 Chipsets are buggy with ROS6, most Packages are not multicore capable

RBD52G-5HacD2HnD-TC just popped up on FCC web site.

Why would it be triple chain? Model name suggests 2x2 2.4/5 GHz.

i mistook the last TC - probably a freudian slip - as the first gen hAP ac was triple chain on both bands.
indeed the last TC must be standing for "tower case" i presume...

They better start with ROS7 in this year, ARM Products only badly supported, and Wave 2 Chipsets are buggy with ROS6

I don't disagree.

most Packages are not multicore capable

Can you give me an example of a package that is not multicore capable ?

Can you give me an example of a package that is not multicore capable ?

Not package, but BGP, BW test and other ale single core...

Can you give me an example of a package that is not multicore capable ?

Not package, but BGP, BW test and other ale single core...

On the BW test point, I agree it would be great if Mikrotik split the individual tests into seperate threads.

On the BGP/Routing however I disagree.

A few points:
1) Control Plane ≠ Forwarding Plane
While the processing of routing updates happens in a single thread, packet forwarding (the actual movement of your packets) is already multicore capable.

2) BGP is single threaded on Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and IOS-XR as well as on Juniper JunOS and Nokia SRos
The processing of routing updates, and in particular the application of route-filters needs to happen in a "run to completion" matter. That means that running it accross multiple threads will result in unpredictable results. This is why you cant just "make BGP multi-threaded". What can be done is to split each protocol to a seperate process with a central "condcutor" process, this is what Quagga/FRR do with the zebrad process, and what JunOS does with RPD.

Excellent comment, nz_monkey. Thanks for clarifying it for others, much appreciated.

Excellent comment, nz_monkey. Thanks for clarifying it for others, much appreciated.

@normis is there anything on the horizon that will help offset the shortcomings of current CCRs in terms of BGP performance aside from ROS7/multi-threading?
E.g. a CCR device with a more powerful CPU? Or this is rather in the realm of CHR?

Excellent comment, nz_monkey. Thanks for clarifying it for others, much appreciated.

i've been thinking a bit.
there is a (theoretical) way to make it a "bit more" multithreaded / multicore, but the whole idea will only (some) benefit if there are multiple "heavy" neighbours with lots of updates and/or big amount of prefixes.

there is a bgp backend process, which has all bgp routes (we may refer to this as bgp table) and does all the best path calculation. other threads are doing per neighbour communication, e.g. processing incoming advertisements, applying inbound route filters, etc and sending the final prefix data to the backend.
as they could have "read only" access to the bgp table, the outgoing filters could be also done by the same per-neighbor-threads.

then you could have a 3rd process that is responsible to update the kernel routing tables based on the bgp table, and notifying the backend process in case of kernel routing table changes.
this is similar to the implementation of openbgpd, and would allow to split the "big" bgp elephant onto multiple cores. however there must be some sort of control that locks a certain entry in the bgp table (as it is being modified by the backend) so no half baked data is read out by the other processes - which would introduce other blockers...

Except what nz_monkey wrote ... we are implementing much faster BGP in v7. Not multi-threaded, because of reasons that were outlined, but much faster.

Except what nz_monkey wrote ... we are implementing much faster BGP in v7. Not multi-threaded, because of reasons that were outlined, but much faster.

So is that confirmation that you are actively working on v7 and it is not just a pipe dream? I presume it would be needed if the next generation of products are to be sold.

Some parts are ready in v7, some parts are not nearly ready. We can't release only the good parts. Those we can sometimes backport. If we backport enough stuff, there is no more need for v7 though

Lol, so for when can we expect v8 then ? 2nd '18?

Some parts are ready in v7, some parts are not nearly ready. We can't release only the good parts. Those we can sometimes backport. If we backport enough stuff, there is no more need for v7 though

Looks like that if you mention V7 information, you have to deny it immediately. Do you have an internal ban on anything to say?

CCR grade router with 64bit ARM processor and multiple "next-gen" interfaces, e.g. SFP28, QSFP28

TILE-Mx100 CPU looks like the logical successor the the current Tile-Gx? => http://www.ezchip.com/files/drim__EZchi ... 5_7671.pdf

TILE-Mx100 CPU looks like the logical successor the the current Tile-Gx? => http://www.ezchip.com/files/drim__EZchi ... 5_7671.pdf

EZchip was bought out by Mellanox, I am not sure if they are developing the Tilera platform anymore. What we need to high clock speed, a reasonable number of cores, 4 - 16.

CCR grade router with 64bit ARM processor and multiple "next-gen" interfaces, e.g. SFP28, QSFP28

TILE-Mx100 CPU looks like the logical successor the the current Tile-Gx? => http://www.ezchip.com/files/drim__EZchi ... 5_7671.pdf

I personally hope that the new CCR's are based on Cavium Octeon TX and TX2.

hAP ac² - CPU is IPQ-4018 716 MHz
PDF: https://uloz.to/!KboRhNGccV6O/en-datash ... -tower-pdf

hAP ac² - CPU is IPQ-4018 716 MHz
PDF: https://uloz.to/!KboRhNGccV6O/en-datash ... -tower-pdf

Storage size 16 MB!!!!
yet another 16MB flash device...

Storage size 16 MB!!!!
yet another 16MB flash device...

it may sound lame, but you can pop an usb pen into it and have a storage size according to your needs. you can get real compact ones, or just pick a micro sized microsd adapter from ebay
i know, that
- putting - say - 128meg NAND on the board would not be such a big price increase (but every cent counts in this market segment - only cisco can charge $500 for a freaking 512Mb CF card)
- one cannot boot from this storage, so partitions are a no-go
- will waste the USB port (but be honest, there ain't much use on most usb ports)
- metarouter can't use it (wait, there ain't no metarouter support on arm 'tiks)

as for configuration backup space: well, keeping your backup configs on the very same flash seems to offer no big protection

other than that, i agree. i'd be happier with say 32Megs so "partitioning it" could make some sense.

Wonderful! We started years ago with 256MB then came the 64MB trend to get down to 16MB nowadays when home devices offer GB of nand storage.
What comes next, some cheapo white plastic box with an 8KB EEPROM inside?

Seriously speaking, I still love and promote Mikrotik devices (mostly because of ROS) but I think they have to reconsider their decisions and product design strategy.

The hAP ac2 is missing a few features that the hAP ac had:
- PoE out on ether5
- SFP port

The hAP ac2 is missing a few features that the hAP ac had:
- PoE out on ether5
- SFP port

dual chain wireless vs triple chain for hAP ac

New wireless hardware without a deep software revision of the NV2 is useless.......

It feels more like a replacement/upgrade on the hap ac lite.

New wireless hardware without a deep software revision of the NV2 is useless.......

You don´t need NV2 for home AP....
We now testing another Brand and it is a shame for Mikrotik what is possible with
TDMA and 802.11ac

New wireless hardware without a deep software revision of the NV2 is useless.......

You don´t need NV2 for home AP....

but given the fact that Mikrotik uses a "single set of software features across the entire routerboard product family" you'll have it anyway.
indeed there is not much real use case in a device that sits on your desktop and used mainly as an internal network hub.
however i guess Mikrotik indends to use the same wireless chipset (albeit one w/o integrated gige switch) for outdoor p2p gear as well, where it makes perfectly sense.
and look, IPQ-4018 is used in RBLDFG-5acD, RBSXTsqG-5acD, RBLHGG-5acD-XL...

@doneware

Yes you are right, and the shame is the Products are on Market, and the Wireless Driver seems to early Beta!

It feels more like a replacement/upgrade on the hap ac lite.

that is the right. although most home use cases are just fine with 100Mbps, you can't really compete without GE ports nowadays.

The hAP ac2 is missing a few features that the hAP ac had:
- PoE out on ether5
- SFP port

by those specifications, it fits between hAP ac lite and hAP ac

https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf
https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf
https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf

https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf
https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf
https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf

Damn that german shop should be banned for that one
That I am interested most is whether I can run a CAP AC behind another CAP AC powered by the first CAP AC?

https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf
https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf
https://shop.meconet.de/media/products/ ... asheet.pdf

Damn that german shop should be banned for that one
That I am interested most is whether I can run a CAP AC behind another CAP AC powered by the first CAP AC?

I´m not the shop owner.....
But i did see this new Stuff today.....

Yes you can do so with CAPac, sum up the needed Power an buy needed Powersupply

Yes you can do so with CAPac, sum up the needed Power an buy needed Powersupply

Well, I was not sure because PoE+ and passive PoE is kind of mixed within the datasheet. Is the 48POW https://mikrotik.com/product/48POW the right choice or should both CAP ac devices powered with PoE+?

Damn that german shop should be banned for that one

Mikrotik announced the new products at the Philippines MUM, so Meconet are not doing anything wrong.

The hAP ac2 and cAP AC have the same price point at $69USD each, that is very nice.

I had hoped that the new hAP AC would be a RB750Gr3 with WLAN from the hAP AC... better CPU, more RAM, etc.

What I would love to see is a hAP AC with IPsec Hardware encryption and with a dedicated WPS button. That would make a very capable SOHO device.

What I would love to see is a hAP AC with IPsec Hardware encryption and with a dedicated WPS button.

As i see, hAP ac² have table "IPsec test results". It's mean that IPsec hardware encryption already works in this router. Also it have Reset/WPS button and Wave2 wireless chip.
So we have (with comparison with hAP ac):
- SFP port
- PoE Out
- one wireless chain
+ IPsec hardware encryption
+ Wave2 wireless chip (but will it be supported by software?)
+ more powerfull CPU

This product seems more balanced than hAP ac. So i think it will be a new bestseller from mikrotik.

This product seems more balanced than hAP ac. So i think it will be a new bestseller from mikrotik.

I agree this will be a great seller.

Hopefully there is a variation with PoE out on ether5.

+ Wave2 wireless chip (but will it be supported by software?)

What's new in 6.41 (2017-Dec-22 11:55):
.
.
!) wireless - new driver with initial support for 160 and 80+80 MHz channel width; <- this

What I would love to see is a hAP AC with IPsec Hardware encryption and with a dedicated WPS button.

As i see, hAP ac² have table "IPsec test results". It's mean that IPsec hardware encryption already works in this router. Also it have Reset/WPS button and Wave2 wireless chip.
So we have (with comparison with hAP ac):
- SFP port
- PoE Out
- one wireless chain
+ IPsec hardware encryption
+ Wave2 wireless chip (but will it be supported by software?)
+ more powerfull CPU

This product seems more balanced than hAP ac. So i think it will be a new bestseller from mikrotik.

I am excited to see this model. I am glad it has the same antenna gain as the 1st gen hAP AC. Great work Mikrotik!

i also want to see this device.

Going to switch my RB750Gr3 + 3rd party AC AP with this device.

Does anyone know if Mikrotik supports band steering or broadcast suppression on their wireless products? I cannot find references on the wiki.

Going to switch my RB750Gr3 + 3rd party AC AP with this device.

That's my intention too. The price, features and performance are unbeatable. Just microSD slot is missing for dude database.

And still no replacement is announced for devices of 2011 series in desktop case. ARM CPU in hap ac2 seems to be more than capable.
But we still see 2011 as only soho device with 10 ports and wi-fi built in.
Normis, talk to your buddies in development department.

Going to switch my RB750Gr3 + 3rd party AC AP with this device.

Still will be dealbreaker if you replace from some UBNT AP i suppose. Still will cover much smaller space from UAPs.

Going to switch my RB750Gr3 + 3rd party AC AP with this device.

Still will be dealbreaker if you replace from some UBNT AP i suppose. Still will cover much smaller space from UAPs.

This claim is meaningless without any supporting evidence or documentation. On paper the Mikrotik specifications are better than the equivalent Ubiquiti. They have higher transmit power (although lower is often used for commercial deployments) and they list better receiver sensitivity than a competing Cisco AP. Ubiquiti doesn't publish that information.

New ARM hardware with wifi fills me with hope we'll see an RB3011 with wifi and a desktop case, but it seems very unlikely.

I personally hope that the new CCR's are based on Cavium Octeon TX and TX2.

2x Cavium ThunderX_NT in next gen router with 2x 48 cores would be interesting: https://cavium.com/pdfFiles/ThunderX_NT_PB_Rev1.pdf?x=2
I cannot find pricing Information in those.

Going to switch my RB750Gr3 + 3rd party AC AP with this device.

Still will be dealbreaker if you replace from some UBNT AP i suppose. Still will cover much smaller space from UAPs.

This claim is meaningless without any supporting evidence or documentation. On paper the Mikrotik specifications are better than the equivalent Ubiquiti. They have higher transmit power (although lower is often used for commercial deployments) and they list better receiver sensitivity than a competing Cisco AP. Ubiquiti doesn't publish that information.

OK let discuss like this. I previously used HAP AC and Rb951G-2hnd and RB951Ui-2hnd and RB2011UiAS-2HnD and still signal was week comparing with UAP AC PRO that using now for example. On paper maybe Mikrotik is better, but fact telling me that maybe Mikrotik is better in OpenSpace, and UAP is better in homes with many walls and in closed space. My current setup is RB750Gr3 + UAP AC PRO and im happy with it.

New ARM hardware with wifi fills me with hope we'll see an RB3011 with wifi and a desktop case, but it seems very unlikely.

They will post ARM based 3011 soon i suppose. Its been too long time until 2011 was presented.

Going to switch my RB750Gr3 + 3rd party AC AP with this device.

Still will be dealbreaker if you replace from some UBNT AP i suppose. Still will cover much smaller space from UAPs.

This claim is meaningless without any supporting evidence or documentation. On paper the Mikrotik specifications are better than the equivalent Ubiquiti. They have higher transmit power (although lower is often used for commercial deployments) and they list better receiver sensitivity than a competing Cisco AP. Ubiquiti doesn't publish that information.

OK let discuss like this. I previously used HAP AC and Rb951G-2hnd and RB951Ui-2hnd and RB2011UiAS-2HnD and still signal was week comparing with UAP AC PRO that using now for example. On paper maybe Mikrotik is better, but fact telling me that maybe Mikrotik is better in OpenSpace, and UAP is better in homes with many walls and in closed space. My current setup is RB750Gr3 + UAP AC PRO and im happy with it.

I'm not an engineer but it appears that the antenna on the UAP-AC-PRO is superior to the Rb951G-2hnd and RB2011UiAS-2HnD, as listed in the internal photos section for all three models on fccid.io. Let's hope the hAP ac² has a new antenna design.

Dont expect too much. Will be sumilar like HAP AC.

Yeah the antenna in the UAP-AC-Pro is very large. The UAP-AC-Pro design maximises antenna gain, which will improve RX sensitivity, which in my opinion is a better approach than using high TX power which just results in the "lighthouse" effect..

The hAP ac2 and cAP ac look to have Mikrotik's traditional antenna designs, so don't expect any miracles.

Yeah the antenna in the UAP-AC-Pro is very large. The UAP-AC-Pro design maximises antenna gain, which will improve RX sensitivity, which in my opinion is a better approach than using high TX power which just results in the "lighthouse" effect..

The hAP ac2 and cAP ac look to have Mikrotik's traditional antenna designs, so don't expect any miracles.

100% Agreed !

Yeah the antenna in the UAP-AC-Pro is very large. The UAP-AC-Pro design maximises antenna gain, which will improve RX sensitivity, which in my opinion is a better approach than using high TX power which just results in the "lighthouse" effect..

The hAP ac2 and cAP ac look to have Mikrotik's traditional antenna designs, so don't expect any miracles.

100% Agreed !

I've been reviewing more FCC photos and it appears that only the CAP and WAP models have larger antenna. The other models seem to have small antenna or have fake antenna stenciled into the circuit board. Let's hope the new models have improved antenna designs as it would be worth a small increase in cost. Thanks for your insight.

Duplicate message.

Currently have a pair of hAP ac, looking forward to upgrade to a pair of hAP ac 2 for their faster CPUs.

I'm not using poe and SFP, and 3x3 in hAP ac.

Currently have a pair of hAP ac, looking forward to upgrade to a pair of hAP ac 2 for their faster CPUs.

I'm not using poe and SFP, and 3x3 in hAP ac.

For that im telling that HAP AC 2 will be better sollution then HAP AC. Its useless to have 3x3 AC when CPU dont support it.. It maxes on 600 mbps. Also SFP input, only a few users use Optical gpon in their houses. Its useless to put more money on unit that is overprices. New HAP ac 2 will be best option for most of peoples.

https://mikrotik.com/products/compare/R ... acD2HnD-TC

Its useless to have 3x3 AC when there's pretty much no client devices with 3 antennas.

Its useless to have 3x3 AC when there's pretty much no client devices with 3 antennas.

You can get PCIe cards or USB adapters with even 4 antennas.

The Wave 2 in the wifi card is probably more valuable than triple chain anyway.

The Wave 2 in the wifi card is probably more valuable than triple chain anyway.

totally agree, y prefer same power 2x2 than 3x3 , you get farther coverage

3x3 its rarely used and make the equipment far more expensive and power hungry

Currently have a pair of hAP ac, looking forward to upgrade to a pair of hAP ac 2 for their faster CPUs.

I'm not using poe and SFP, and 3x3 in hAP ac.

For that im telling that HAP AC 2 will be better sollution then HAP AC. Its useless to have 3x3 AC when CPU dont support it.. It maxes on 600 mbps. Also SFP input, only a few users use Optical gpon in their houses. Its useless to put more money on unit that is overprices. New HAP ac 2 will be best option for most of peoples.

https://mikrotik.com/products/compare/R ... acD2HnD-TC

totally agreee

Dont expect too much. Will be sumilar like HAP AC.

yes but hap ac2 cost almost halfs thats a game changer

+ Wave2 wireless chip (but will it be supported by software?)

What's new in 6.41 (2017-Dec-22 11:55):
.
.
!) wireless - new driver with initial support for 160 and 80+80 MHz channel width; <- this

Just use the whole 5GHz band lol

!) wireless - new driver with initial support for 160 and 80+80 MHz channel width; <- this

Just use the whole 5GHz band lol

well, for P2P connections it does make sense to me.

+ Wave2 wireless chip (but will it be supported by software?)

What's new in 6.41 (2017-Dec-22 11:55):
.
.
!) wireless - new driver with initial support for 160 and 80+80 MHz channel width; <- this

Just use the whole 5GHz band lol

fortunately using 160mhz on 5ghz wifi you dont get too far in distance

3x3 its rarely used and make the equipment far more expensive and power hungry

Well hAP AC2 is announced using 3W more and does not even have an SFP socket which is itself allowed to draw up to 2 Watts.
It is a completely different product category, hence the notable price drop. Triple and quad chains are the high-end of wifi and Mikrotik should continue to propose good products in this segment as well.