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hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:20 pm
by atlanticd
I observed on my international version, EU plug hAP ac² that it reports more RAM than described in product specification, product brochure and block diagram. In all documentation 128 MB is mentioned, however "/system resource print" shows 256 MB:
[admin@MikroTik] > /system resource print 
                   uptime: 41m6s
                  version: 6.40.5 (stable)
               build-time: Oct/31/2017 13:05:15
         factory-software: 6.40.5
              free-memory: 207.7MiB
             total-memory: 233.4MiB
                      cpu: ARMv7
                cpu-count: 4
            cpu-frequency: 716MHz
                 cpu-load: 1%
           free-hdd-space: 4092.0KiB
          total-hdd-space: 15.3MiB
  write-sect-since-reboot: 92
         write-sect-total: 92
               bad-blocks: 0%
        architecture-name: arm
               board-name: hAP ac^2
                 platform: MikroTik
Are there multiple HW revisions on the market? Not that I would need more than 128 MB memory for my SOHO routing requirements, but I am still interested. Maybe it would worth to update documentation.

Thanks.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:45 pm
by juliokato
started to get interesting, just need to increase the flash too.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:04 pm
by Sob
As I undestand it, sometimes you may get lucky and receive a little more than what's in specification. Not that double RAM helps much, even 128MB is probably more than what this device will ever need. I wouldn't dare to say the same about flash. But hey, it's free, no need to complain. :)

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:07 am
by vadimbn
Just change specifications from "Size of RAM: 128 MB" to "Size of RAM: at least 128 MB". :)

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:39 am
by jarda
Rather not. Everyone would start to ask what does it mean and what is the probability distribution of each variant...

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:35 pm
by vadimbn
Add a little lottery to marketing ... Who will be lucky, will get more RAM. Hurry to buy!!!

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:10 pm
by jarda
It works so for ages. Only newcomers are realising it now...

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:26 pm
by vadimbn
But there is only 233.4MiBs. In my RB750Gr3 all 256.0 MiBs is written. Where are the last 23 MiBs?

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:47 pm
by docmarius
Where is it written that you should have 256M of RAM? You got a 233Mb chip, live with it :lol:

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:48 pm
by jarda
What a fortune!

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:44 pm
by vadimbn
You got a 233Mb chip, live with it :lol:
Hmm... This will make me unhappy... 233 is not so beautiful as 256... :)

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:27 am
by Sob
Have you heard about gift horse? :)

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:39 am
by mwilczeq
I looks the same in my version of hAP ac²

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:29 am
by vadimbn
Have you heard about gift horse? :)
Yes, and also about her teeth. But. But.
Ah, of course, i will live with this. I already bought hAP ac². I'm wait it from EuroDK. May be i will more lucky and my hAP ac² will have a SD-card slot or something else??? :)

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:43 pm
by Lachrymist
Mine hAP ac2 also have 233mb of ram. Also, I noticed that it has IPQ4019 SoC. Awesome! What SoC do you have?

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:23 pm
by atlanticd
Also, I noticed that it has IPQ4019 SoC. Awesome! What SoC do you have?
How did you checked that? Did you disassembled your unit? I could only check with command "/system resource irq print", and there I see 2 entries with "ipq4019_ahb" which indicates that it is IPQ-4019 as you said, however the specification on Qualcomm site says 1 GB RAM for 4019, and 256 GB RAM for 4018. So hard to says without disassembling the unit, but one guy disassembled it, and on his picture the SoC is clearly 4018. And one of his screenshot in the article also shows 233 MB RAM.

Edit: Ok, I see in Wireless/WiFi Interfaces, under the Type field that it is IPQ4019. However I still believe just the driver is named like 4019, the SoC itself is IPQ-4018.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:50 pm
by deanMKD1
Mine hAP ac2 also have 233mb of ram. Also, I noticed that it has IPQ4019 SoC. Awesome! What SoC do you have?
Can you send me screen from System > Resources ?

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:59 pm
by Lachrymist
Now I want to dissamble my ac2 :D
This may be not true, however there are quite a few IPQ4019 devices with 256MB ram out there. I believe 256MB - IPQ4018/1GB - IPQ4019 is maximum amount of RAM.
https://i.imgur.com/v8U1QUk.png

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:33 am
by Gennadiy51
It's strange, but I see only two antennas, and the block diagram shows 4 antennas. For the first time I see that Mikrotik would use dual-band combined antennas. How do the transmitters not jam the receivers of the other range, while maintaining a decent sensitivity?

Translated by Google translator.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:35 pm
by mkx
Labels on the circuit board says "2G CH0 + 5G CH1" ... the other is obscured by antenna itself, but I guess print would be similar (but with swapped chains).

The frequency of two WiFi bands are (radio wise) far away from each other with plenty of other occupied bands in between so that filters (both in TX and RX branches) can do very decent job. TX needs decent band-pass filter not to emit energy outside of ISM band (that would be illegal). RX needs band-pass filter as well to reject some adjacent-band interference which might lower usable sensitivity. Further more, RX needs channel-pass filter and this one is usually implemented in DSP software (or else channel switching would be a hard thing to do). Decent band-pass filter would have out-of-band attenuation of at least 40dB. Given that there are two band-pass filters in play (e.g. TX filter on 2G and RX filter on 5G), overall out-of-band attenuation inside single device should be at least 80dB ... if TX power is +20dB, that would mean -60dB at input of RX pre-amplifier. Which is not good, but not useless either ... given the nature of OFDM being used for recent WiFi standards where sensitivity is less of an issue than with other (legacy) technologies.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:46 pm
by normis
There are filters inside, that prevent any disturbance between 2GHz and 5GHz bands

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:58 pm
by deanMKD1
There are filters inside, that prevent any disturbance between 2GHz and 5GHz bands
What about different HW specifications on units that have produced? Is mistake on product page or?

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:38 pm
by normis
There are filters inside, that prevent any disturbance between 2GHz and 5GHz bands
What about different HW specifications on units that have produced? Is mistake on product page or?
Some devices have more RAM, like above posters noted. We can't adjust the product page, because then somebody will find LESS than advertised RAM and that is worse, than finding more.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:41 pm
by deanMKD1
Some devices have more RAM, like above posters noted. We can't adjust the product page, because then somebody will find LESS than advertised RAM and that is worse, than finding more.
Yes but this device will have 256MB RAM on all units or its lottary from first production batch ? Its mistery for most of users here.. Can you explain this more detally?

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:05 pm
by macgaiver
I think you over-complicate things, sometimes it happens that during the manufacturing, some parts didn't arrive on time, doesn't pass the QC, or simply become unavailable. In those cases it is much more reasonable to use other, maybe even more expensive parts, than stop manufacturing process. These are gifts, that can happen at any step of manufacturing, but is is good chance that if one board from this batch was with more ram that others will be also, so i would suggest to buy them now :)

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:35 pm
by juliokato
Please, insert in to Part Number a release code, p.e:
- release 1 with 128MB
- release 2 with 256MB

Like a RB750r2 and RB750Gr3....
Because they are different hardware.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:27 pm
by mkx
Please, insert in to Part Number a release code, p.e:
- release 1 with 128MB
- release 2 with 256MB

Like a RB750r2 and RB750Gr3....
Because they are different hardware.
.
Add release 3 with 233MB ...
And, please, charge for release 2 hardware extra money. We don't want to go through fine print in specs just to find out that we've got better unit for the same price.

Please note use of sarcasm in previous paragraph.

I really don't know what are people complaining about. I've got a RB951G-2HnD at home acting as VLAN switch / multi-SSID WAP ... and its 128MB RAM is much more than I'll ever need for this duties. Alas, I needed a device with some characteristics and I didn't dismiss the unit just because of too much RAM ... the price fitted my budget and that's it, end of story.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:07 pm
by juliokato
This is a very recurrent by Mikrotik:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=125363

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:23 am
by Paternot
This must be the first time I see someone complaining about more RAM... :lol:

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:56 am
by EvilSide
Short review, includes a board overview
I also do not match the description on the official site: https://i.imgur.com/Lj6sU34.png
Interesting, when it will be "fixed"(software bug or...?). And where is the truth?

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:05 pm
by deanMKD1
This must be the first time I see someone complaining about more RAM... :lol:
We dont complaining , we are just currious why is different then specified in their product page. Nothing more.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:21 pm
by EvilSide
This must be the first time I see someone complaining about more RAM... :lol:
We dont complaining , we are just currious why is different then specified in their product page. Nothing more.
We are even glad that this happened :lol:

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:21 pm
by macgaiver
Please, insert in to Part Number a release code, p.e:
- release 1 with 128MB
- release 2 with 256MB

Like a RB750r2 and RB750Gr3....
Because they are different hardware.
Sure and double your effort with all the certifications all around the world... no thanks.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:34 pm
by atlanticd
Hi All,

After RouterBOOT firmware upgrade to 6.42rc46 the system resources shows correct amount of memory. I asked for a statement from MikroTik if they limit by intention the memory despite the unit has physically more memory, or was it a software bug.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:01 am
by deanMKD1
So looks like its software bug and this device have 128MB ram onstead of 233MB that was listed before ?

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:25 pm
by atlanticd
So looks like its software bug and this device have 128MB ram onstead of 233MB that was listed before ?
Honestly I don't know what is the truth. I didn't get (yet) an answer from MikroTik here or in the other topic where I asked. I reverted back RouterBOOT firmware to 3.43, and again I see Total Memory of 233.2 MiB. So far this is my conclusion: if you have firmware 3.43, then you see more memory, no matter what is the ROS version.
On the photo in the article where someone disassembled the unit, I can see the memory has the label "NT5CC128M16IP-DI", so 128M may indicate that physically it is really just 128 MB. But in the article he also noticed he has 233.2 MB. In the datasheet of the memory it is also in the same row where they list all 128 MB module variants. On the other hand wikidevi initially said 128 MB, then later they edited to 256 MB, you can see in wiki page edit history.

So I don't know what to conclude here. Maybe if someone knows how to write a small script which fill in memory (just for test), then we can see if we can write there more than 128 MB or not :)

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:57 pm
by juliokato
Maybe bad quality control of chip manufaturer?

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:51 pm
by EvilSide
https://mikrotik.com/download/changelog ... lease-tree
:D

What's new in 6.42rc52 (2018-Mar-26 12:41):
*) routerboard - properly detect hAP ac^2 RAM size;

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:03 pm
by atlanticd
Has anyone tried to install v6.42rc52? I would be interested if it stays ~233 MB or not. Please note you have to upgrade firmware (RouterBoot), not only RouterOS.
https://mikrotik.com/download/changelog ... lease-tree
:D

What's new in 6.42rc52 (2018-Mar-26 12:41):
*) routerboard - properly detect hAP ac^2 RAM size;

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:10 pm
by Keyko
233 MB ...

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:22 pm
by atlanticd
233 MB ...
Hi Keyko, thanks for the feedback. Have you upgraded Routerboard firmware as well? Can you please paste the output of "/system routerboard print" command? (You might want to redact serial number, don't forget.)
Thanks!

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:51 pm
by orzyl
RouterOS and firmware 6.42rc52. Still 233MB.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:05 pm
by atlanticd
I made a test on my unit which runs now v6.42rc46 with firmware 3.43 in order to be able to determine that it really has physically more than 128 MB of memory. I set in Packet Sniffer Memory Limit to 128000 kb, and disabled Memory Scroll, and then started to capture traffic on all interfaces while generating traffic. I could really see that free memory was shrinking, and in used memory I could see in graph that it used ~175 MB of memory.
Image
So I believe my unit really has a 256 MB module. I was not yet upgrading to v6.42rc52, but hopefully it will still detect ~233 MB of memory after Routerboard firmware upgrade to v6.42rc52

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:16 pm
by atlanticd
RouterOS and firmware 6.42rc52. Still 233MB.
Thanks for your feedback, in that case I will also do the upgrade in the evening.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification  [SOLVED]

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:03 pm
by atlanticd
I can confirm that by upgrading Routerboard (RouterBOOT) firmware to v6.42rc52, the issue reported here is gone, I can see again full amount of memory. /system resources print reports total-memory: 233.2MiB
So conclusion is that there are units with more than 128 MB RAM and you need either v3.43 or >= 6.42rc52 Routerboard firmware in order to have properly detected RAM size.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:42 pm
by DmitryAVET
On hand i have 2 pcs of hAP ac2. In system - resources - 233 MB.
Inside of box you can find chips Nanya 2 Gbit = 256 MB

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:40 pm
by wintel
On hand i have 2 pcs of hAP ac2. In system - resources - 233 MB.
Inside of box you can find chips Nanya 2 Gbit = 256 MB
Hi, how can you disassembly and reassembly the hAP ac2? I can't disassemble the hAP ac2 without damage it.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:16 pm
by pepek
On hand i have 2 pcs of hAP ac2. In system - resources - 233 MB.
Inside of box you can find chips Nanya 2 Gbit = 256 MB
Hi, how can you disassembly and reassembly the hAP ac2? I can't disassemble the hAP ac2 without damage it.
Look on the device from side of ETH ports - you will see small flat holes on short sides (next to power/ETH5). Carefully insert flat screwdriver in them...

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:28 pm
by DmitryAVET
On hand i have 2 pcs of hAP ac2. In system - resources - 233 MB.
Inside of box you can find chips Nanya 2 Gbit = 256 MB
Hi, how can you disassembly and reassembly the hAP ac2? I can't disassemble the hAP ac2 without damage it.
Right from Eth5 you can see hole.
In hole find latch. I use dental spatula.

BUT!... After 2-3 dissassembling you damage the latch.

Re: hAP ac² - more RAM than in HW specification

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:00 pm
by wintel
On hand i have 2 pcs of hAP ac2. In system - resources - 233 MB.
Inside of box you can find chips Nanya 2 Gbit = 256 MB
Hi, how can you disassembly and reassembly the hAP ac2? I can't disassemble the hAP ac2 without damage it.
Right from Eth5 you can see hole.
In hole find latch. I use dental spatula.

BUT!... After 2-3 dissassembling you damage the latch.
Thanks!