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hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:42 am
by yangming
Please forgive me for not being able to speak English!

Introduction page
Tested ambient temperature -40°C .. +50°C

About 60°C+ and room temperature only 20°C
Please answer
谢谢!

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:29 am
by normis
Tested ambient temperature -40°C .. +50°C
This means unit will work OK in room temperature +50C
About 60°C+ and room temperature only 20°C
Room temperature is 20C, and it works fine. It will work fine with higher temperatures too. You should not pay attention to the CPU temperature in this situation. CPU temperature is allowed to be high. Unit will still work ok.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:39 pm
by yangming
However, the temperature is much higher than the previous product! Some worry it is easy to be bad!
I am now down-converting and use temperatures above 50°C

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:53 pm
by yangming
The surface temperature is 50°C+ and the core temperature is 60°C+. I am very worried that it is easy to be bad!

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:08 pm
by yangming
40nm! Small size and no cooling holes,Design flaws?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:15 pm
by Simono
My cAP ac is also hot for me. I feels high temperature when I touch the back of the case. Now I can't check it's temperature because cli command /system health print do nothing. I will check it when I'll be at home.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:25 pm
by normis
It doesn't matter how hot it feels. The hardware can handle it and will work fine.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:36 pm
by Fraction
Hmm.. Not sure is this a (known?) bug or something else, but with 6.41.3 on hAP ac^2 it seems that the system/health is not printing anything:
[x@y] > system health print

[x@y] >

Also Health-page in Winbox shows only buttons, not any actual data. Not so big deal for me, but just mentioned. :)

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:14 pm
by AlexT
Hmm.. Not sure is this a (known?) bug or something else, but with 6.41.3 on hAP ac^2 it seems that the system/health is not printing anything:
[x@y] > system health print

[x@y] >

Also Health-page in Winbox shows only buttons, not any actual data. Not so big deal for me, but just mentioned. :)
hAP ac^2 does not have a built-in temperature sensor

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:45 pm
by Keyko
Dear mikro, you got an excellent 750gr3 - a classy body, a radiator on cpu, microSD ... What prevented the body for hAP AC ^ 2 more and standard white? Why this wretched black body?Was it really so hard to do? Is it really difficult to do more with a radiator and a larger body? Maybe you should outwit your designers and marketers?

p.s. want me to make for you a free case for hAP AC ^ 2 in SolidWorks?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:52 pm
by spaxton
Guys...

Man said no need to worry as the hardware will handle it.I am sure they have tested this for a while before putting it in the market. If You are really annoyed about this then try to add some small radiator. However, the device comes with warranty so I wouldn't worry about it at all...

Best Regards.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:15 pm
by jarda
Do you believe they tested the temperature at least a bit more carefully than the wifi?

I also worry about the heating which means inefficient power consumption. Take the power consumption, deduct the radios and compare to rb750gr3...

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:04 am
by yangming
Looked at the disassemble picture, found that the heat sink is mounted on the back and is not installed on the chip! Is this design useful?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:12 am
by yangming

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:34 am
by NEOhidra
Good hardware but poor overall package (software and hardware).
Now the logical question - was Mikrotik aware?
Are there AC2 with correct placement of the heatsink?
Will Mikrotik partners be replacing units with the mentioned "design" or the users will be forced to fix the problem by themselves.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:17 pm
by Keyko
I measured the temperature with a pyrometer without a box - 52-55 CPU, the radiator - 50-53 degrees and this without special load (I replaced thermal paste with MX-2) !!! The temperature in the room is 24-25 degrees, what will there be in the closed box? 60-65 + without load?

p.s. I will repeat - what prevented to make a normal white classic case for this device? This is essentially a future hit!

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:10 pm
by yangming
hi Keyko
You are the surface temperature, I believe that the core temperature is 70°C+
I want to know if this is a strategy for the retirement of the mikrotik plan?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:13 pm
by yangming
Is the performance too strong? Do you need to use temperature to exercise plan retirement?
Hope MT can improve heat dissipation!

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:49 pm
by Keyko
Economy "2 cents" on the body and cooling. It was possible to make a PCB more and quietly fit everything on the upper side, and below make an aluminum diffuser as in the RB951 + normal size radiator on the top side. Let it be more expensive for 10-15 $, but the user is calm and you + in karma.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:42 pm
by doneware
i don't think that moving the heatsink to the other side would make things different.
the CPU would be cooled more efficiently, i suppose.
but the heat is heat, it is radiated either by the cpu or by the heatsink. w/o improved ventilation the case will heat up, regardless where you place the heatsink.

on the other hand, you can cool stuff through the PCB as well. this way Mikrotik could use a flat heatsing, while on the other side they would have needed to follow the various component heights.

by the placement of heat transfer blobs i figure the heat generated by all the radios is also transferred to the heatsink.

also good to know, the heatsink has a mass, so if it gets heated up to a certain temperature, it will radiate it until the temperature difference between the environment and the heatsink disappears. there is a "buffering" effect in play. all we get from the heatsink is to collect the heat from multiple points and radiate it out more evenly on a greater surface.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:27 pm
by Keyko
also good to know, the heatsink has a mass, so if it gets heated up to a certain temperature, it will radiate it until the temperature difference between the environment and the heatsink disappears. there is a "buffering" effect in play. all we get from the heatsink is to collect the heat from multiple points and radiate it out more evenly on a greater surface.
The whole problem is that there are no vent holes in the black casing and there is no convection. What prevented a more spacious case? Yes, even the same standard white casing from hAP AC would be better. So the question is - why in the cAP AC the radiator is 2x more than the hAP AC? Hardware they have the same, but the cooling - different.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:28 am
by Paternot
The back heatsink is the official recommendation, directly from the maker.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:13 am
by biatche
Maybe i can start the theory of poor wireless performance possibly due to high temps.

On paper hap ac2 and cap ac are such nice products.... but the reality of things is.....

and with Mikrotik being silent and all.... isnt helpful.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:38 pm
by jarda
Mikrotik is not silent. They admitted that they worked on the wifi improvements already. You should check the forum more carefully before you say that.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:40 am
by normis
I don't understand this discussion. Why are you measuring the temperature? I already answered that this is OK and it will work fine even it hotter conditions.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:46 am
by jarda
Well. If not more, just because the heat means uselessly consumed electricity...

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:15 pm
by sunman
50-60°C for a possible home-router on a wooden desk or so? Realy? I guess i wont try that stuff. Im new on Mikrotik....sorry, but i have to think about that.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:46 pm
by yottabit
My hAP ac2 is in a room at 27C ambient, with very little airflow. I don't use it for wireless, but it is being used for routing with an involved QoS setup, and The Dude running. I'm having no problems with it.

The ARM CPUs are much more advanced than MIPS. You have to expect they will consume more electricity, and dissipate more heat. But the package is rated for high temperature, so until you have actual problems with it that you can prove are temperature-related, don't be concerned.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:53 am
by vecernik87
Hi, I have no issue with mikrotik's statement that device is designed for the temperature, however, I would like to ask: How did you measure the cpu temperature?
When i do:
/system health
I get empty result (both winbox or console while running ROS 6.41.3 ).

I have 4 devices, all acting same so I do not believe it is faulty device. Could you please tell me how did you find out the CPU temperature in hAP ac2 ?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 am
by yangming
Hi, I have no issue with mikrotik's statement that device is designed for the temperature, however, I would like to ask: How did you measure the cpu temperature?
When i do:
/system health
I get empty result (both winbox or console while running ROS 6.41.3 ).

I have 4 devices, all acting same so I do not believe it is faulty device. Could you please tell me how did you find out the CPU temperature in hAP ac2 ?
Infrared temperature gun+taobao.com or amazon.com!

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:18 pm
by Traveller
The whole problem is that there are no vent holes in the black casing and there is no convection.
The black case has vent holes. With this design, the router should be mounted vertically, with cables from bottom and ventilation holes from top, so that convection is better.
ImageImage

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:29 pm
by spaxton
Ok, I have seen a lot of posts... Great, everyone is worried about high temperature.. I will test this device in 35+ degree ambient temperature. If it burns out, let it be...

Best Regards.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:37 pm
by DmitryAVET
I tested hAP ac2 few hours, more than 51C with full load don't see (23C in room).
P.S. temperature measurment with infrared termometr

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:01 am
by Davis
I have accidentally (while installing dust cover for USB port) noticed that my hAP ac^2 feels less warm (around 35 C) than around 2 weeks ago (when it felt more like 45 C).
Has MikroTik implemented some thermal improvements (e.g. shutting down/throttling unused CPU cores) for hAP ac^2 in recent RouterOS versions?
P.S. I have ordered several dust covers from eBay and this one fits best and looks decent.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:31 pm
by yangming
I have accidentally (while installing dust cover for USB port) noticed that my hAP ac^2 feels less warm (around 35 C) than around 2 weeks ago (when it felt more like 45 C).
Has MikroTik implemented some thermal improvements (e.g. shutting down/throttling unused CPU cores) for hAP ac^2 in recent RouterOS versions?
P.S. I have ordered several dust covers from eBay and this one fits best and looks decent.
I also feel this way. After the latest update, the temperature is much lower.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:39 pm
by yangming
After the update, Hap AC2 temperature dropped by 10°C, even though the weather is hot today (at room temperature 30°C)

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:09 pm
by FrancoR
After the update, Hap AC2 temperature dropped by 10°C, even though the weather is hot today (at room temperature 30°C)
Did you update the firmware?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:25 pm
by yangming
After the update, Hap AC2 temperature dropped by 10°C, even though the weather is hot today (at room temperature 30°C)
Did you update the firmware?
yes

通过我的 DUK-AL20 上的 Tapatalk发言


Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:55 am
by yangming
What I said before was wrong. The temperature is still very high, and it is the same as initially.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:23 pm
by FrancoR
What I said before was wrong. The temperature is still very high, and it is the same as initially.
I happens immediately? Or after a couple of hours?
During a download/streaming session?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:30 pm
by ozone
For anyone that is interested, hap-ac2 is a drop-in fit in the classic white cases.
I mounted mine in a RB750gl case.

Only thing missing is the mode button (next to the usb), which I don't use anyway.
Even the leds are in the right location. :)

Clearly Mikrotk had this as an option in mind, just as they did with hap-lite (tower vs. classic case)

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:57 pm
by pnwise
I too bought this unit - my first mikrotik, but I do not think this temperatures are acceptable.

I have the ROS 6.42.6, I have downclocked the CPU to 488Mhz, and have increased the antenna gain to lower wireless power consumption. And yet the unit is probably close to 50C on the plastic to the touch(I don't have anything to measure it right now) in a room around 24-28C.
I even go as far as asking the seller if the warranty will void if I drill holes in the case :D Yeah well of course it will, but since I can't find one of the white cases I consider doing that, because this case can't dissipate 15w of energy, and if I want to run it "stock" without AC on, this to me is fire hazard. Going to even ignore how good for electronics is to run above 70C.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:09 pm
by cszolee79
Just got it. Excellent device.
It is indeed very hot. I understand it works, but having the outside temp well over 50°C is not that fine. No electronics like that high temp. Having it in a standing position is much better (lower temps) but still hot. This black enclosure really needs some additional venting holes. I'm thinking about replacing the board into my old RB750G white box :) Or just drilling some extra holes on the black one.
I've already replaced the thermal paste with Arctic MX-4 (it lowered my 3770K temps with a passive Scythe Ninja by 5-8°C) so it probably helps here too. A bit.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:50 pm
by pnwise
@cszolee79 - How did you open the plastic case?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:09 pm
by cszolee79
@cszolee79 - How did you open the plastic case?
Open the back with a screwdriver or whatever you prefer like so.
https://imgur.com/a/yDsg3dI

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:52 pm
by yottabit
I upgraded to the hAP ac^2 for the faster CPU over the hAP ac, because my QoS rules were hitting the CPU limit.

So I'm using the CPU quite a lot, and have been running this for months in an ambient temperature of 29 C without direct airflow.

It feels hot, but it must have been designed for a high operating temperature, or it would not still be running.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:34 pm
by cszolee79
It feels hot, but it must have been designed for a high operating temperature, or it would not still be running.
Heat does not kill electronics immediately. It happens over years. So it will work for, say, 2-3 years before it goes dodo.
My RB750G worked for ten years (then it cost €0.5 to replace the 3 capacitors and now it's back in business).
Overheating TP-Links died in 1-3 years.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:25 pm
by pin
Do you think it is worth buying this model? I would not want the router to constantly overheat

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:39 pm
by yottabit
It does not "overheat," in that I have not noticed any performance problems when the router is "hot."

As others have said, the heat may contribute to premature failure of the device, but that is conjecture at this point.

Mine is serving a 150M/150M Internet connection with periods of high traffic utilization, a large list of egress QoS rules, and it's working perfectly for me. I bought this for the faster ARM CPU over the MIPS CPU in the RB962 (hAP ac) model that was routinely hitting 100% CPU utilization due to the QoS rules.

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:29 pm
by pin
Suppose a hypothesis with a short life of the router due to overheating is false. then such question:
How much worse is the signal in real conditions compared to the 951 series router?

Re: hAP ac² High temperature

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:25 pm
by yottabit
Sure, the Wi-Fi performance is worse, and by design. Apart from the initial issues that they have fixed, it specifically has lower EIRP and fewer chains.

I actually don't use the Wi-Fi on my hAP ac2. I have it enabled for worst-case management connections only; but I feed multiple RB962 (hAP ac) into it to serve the premise Wi-Fi.

But the wireless performance is a completely separate topic than the heat.