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zizexiji
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2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Wed May 09, 2018 8:57 pm

Why does Mikrotik not apply 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T (8P8C, 100m(cat 5e or 6)) when designing equipment for SMB and HOME segments?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5GBASE-T_and_5GBASE-T
For example:
New hEX RB750Gr(4) 2018 - 8port 2.5GBASE-T (all ports with PoE output) - price ~$150. Why 8 ports? Because 5 is not enough even for home use.

P.S.
Why do I need 2.5GBASE-T?
The introduction of 802.11ac WAVE 2 has made the 1000BASE-T standard a bottleneck in the network infrastructure.
If you use 802.11ac WAVE 2, the real speed reaches more than 1Gbit today.
Additionally, 2.5GBASE-T allows you to use an existing cat5e cable network
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avacha
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Wed May 09, 2018 11:00 pm

Maybe because of none Wave 2 Mikrotik products is currently exist, lol. And this happen in the world, where Asus and D-Link promote 802.11ax routers with theoretical 11Gbs wireless speed. These 802.11ax routers will be available in the second half of 2018.
 
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doneware
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Fri May 11, 2018 11:53 pm

Maybe because of none Wave 2 Mikrotik products is currently exist, lol.
both cap ac and hap ac2 are wave2 based. qualcomm ipq4018, look’em up
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zizexiji
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Sun May 13, 2018 12:50 pm

Even the shitty D-Link has released a 2.5GBase-T PoE switch
http://us.dlink.com/products/business-s ... 1100-10tp/

Mikrotik - do not be late !!!
Last edited by zizexiji on Sun May 13, 2018 10:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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pe1chl
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Sun May 13, 2018 1:37 pm

Why does Mikrotik not apply 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T (8P8C, 100m(cat 5e or 6)) when designing equipment for SMB and HOME segments?
Why do you think that is the case?
MikroTik manufactures equipment with SFP+ slots and the associated S+RJ10 module for the standards you mention.
It looks like you did not study the product gamma before you made your claim and yet again you want to transform existing equipment models into devices
for different markets. It does not work that way.
Why do I need 2.5GBASE-T?
The introduction of 802.11ac WAVE 2 has made the 1000BASE-T standard a bottleneck in the network infrastructure.
If you use 802.11ac WAVE 2, the real speed reaches more than 1Gbit today.
That is only the brochure speed!! In reality with 1Gbps fulldup you have more than enough speed for a single 802.11ac WAVE 2 AP.
Only the 802.11ad will exceed the limit in practice, but even that is not always a bad thing. It is good to allow some room for
the error correction etc.
 
zizexiji
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Sun May 13, 2018 10:24 pm

Why do you think that is the case?
MikroTik manufactures equipment with SFP+ slots and the associated S+RJ10 module for the standards you mention.
It looks like you did not study the product gamma before you made your claim and yet again you want to transform existing equipment models into devices
for different markets. It does not work that way.
But here in what MIkrotik to me to stick 6 consumers:
- 3 with 2.5GBase-T PoE interface
- 1 with 2.5GBase-T interface
- 2 with 1000Base-T PoE interface
- a couple of free PoE ports for the future
Maybe I'm not careful ... :)
SFP+ and S+RJ10 - in large quantities for SOHO is not suitable ...
1-2 SFP+ port is a good idea for SOHO, but no more than
That is only the brochure speed!! In reality with 1Gbps fulldup you have more than enough speed for a single 802.11ac WAVE 2 AP.
Only the 802.11ad will exceed the limit in practice, but even that is not always a bad thing. It is good to allow some room for
the error correction etc.
Do you think the Ruckus R720 was designed by stupid people?
4x4: 4ss 802.11ac Wave 2 access point with 2.5Gbps backhaul
https://www.ruckuswireless.com/products ... uckus-r720
 
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Mon May 14, 2018 3:07 am

I assume you tested it, right? So tell us, is 1GBit ethernet a bottleneck for such device? And how much? Specs say "Maximum PHY Rate 1733 Mbps", but what does it mean in practice, and under what conditions? I mean, if you could get 1.5Gbit on the other side of the house, then I declare 1 Gbit ethernet officially dead. But if it's like a tiny little bit over 1Gbit, with client in sight, 1 meter from device, then who cares. I may sound skeptical, and I sort of am, sorry for that, but I have really hard time imagining the day, when I'll be bothered that I can get "only" 1Gbit through the air. :)
People who quote full posts should be spanked with ethernet cable. Some exceptions for multi-topic threads may apply.
 
pe1chl
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Mon May 14, 2018 10:48 am

Do you think the Ruckus R720 was designed by stupid people?
4x4: 4ss 802.11ac Wave 2 access point with 2.5Gbps backhaul
No, I think these people are very clever! They lure you into thinking you have a problem
and have to upgrade all of your network, even before you have actually measured the real
situation. That is the perfect salesmen behaviour.

However, I am long enough into several kinds of WiFi networks to know that the speed specifications
made by the manufacturers have to be divided by two at least, and usually more. So in reality I would
never worry about a 1.7GBit wireless link overloading my 1Gbit fulldup ethernet. That isn't going to happen!
 
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doneware
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Tue May 15, 2018 1:08 pm

Only the 802.11ad will exceed the limit in practice, but even that is not always a bad thing. It is good to allow some room for
the error correction etc.
i have some radios with modified 802.11ad that claim to be able to deliver ~2.3Gbps - indeed it might be only the radio bandwidth. and most people do not know, that there ain't no good solution to squeeze more than 70% of that onto actual ethernet PHY level.
anyway, i will test them to see how they perform in real life environment soon.
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avacha
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Tue May 15, 2018 2:09 pm

both cap ac and hap ac2 are wave2 based. qualcomm ipq4018, look’em up
Oh, yes. If MT just place hardware 4018 onboard - it's automatically add wave2 support to RouterOS, like add support for hardware acceleration on 3011, add connection via astral for nearest coffee machine, release RouterOS 7 (with Half-Life 3) and the second coming of Christ was succed.
Currently, mikrotik products with 802.11ac wave2 do not exist.

Cost-per-port too expensive for SOHO users in case of devices with SFP modules. Also it's simply don't needed. 2.5G and 5G specially developed for use with standart 8p8c/RG45 and standart, usual cat.5e/6 wire, and using it with SFP are obsolete.
 
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Tue May 15, 2018 3:27 pm

2.5G and 5G specially developed for use with standart 8p8c/RG45 and standart, usual cat.5e/6 wire, and using it with SFP are obsolete.
Actually, as you can see, MikroTik consider SFP and SFP+ the way into the future. Most new products have one to many of these ports.
There even are SFP+ "null" cables to directly connect two devices without ever using fiber or some standard twisted pair.
 
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doneware
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Tue May 15, 2018 3:47 pm

both cap ac and hap ac2 are wave2 based. qualcomm ipq4018, look’em up
it's automatically add wave2 support to RouterOS
i guess not. but it already has support for some features, like 160MHz channel bandwidth. something, you did not had before with pre wave2 hw.
yes, we can debate about how a 160MHz channel is useful in indoor environments, but hey, placing the hw on the board is the first step.
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Tue May 15, 2018 3:53 pm

Actually, as you can see, MikroTik consider SFP and SFP+ the way into the future.
Or maybe it's simply because 2.5/5G chipsets are still new and something extra? Just a guess, I can't say that I know much about this. But eventually they should become mainstream and then they'll make it into new MikroTik devices for sure.
People who quote full posts should be spanked with ethernet cable. Some exceptions for multi-topic threads may apply.
 
zizexiji
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Tue May 15, 2018 9:54 pm

I assume you tested it, right? So tell us, is 1GBit ethernet a bottleneck for such device? And how much? Specs say "Maximum PHY Rate 1733 Mbps", but what does it mean in practice, and under what conditions? I mean, if you could get 1.5Gbit on the other side of the house, then I declare 1 Gbit ethernet officially dead. But if it's like a tiny little bit over 1Gbit, with client in sight, 1 meter from device, then who cares. I may sound skeptical, and I sort of am, sorry for that, but I have really hard time imagining the day, when I'll be bothered that I can get "only" 1Gbit through the air. :)
Unfortunately, you are partially right I got ~1100Mbit/s in conditions close to ideal :( Today 1000Base-T is still relevant and there is hardly a need to replace it right now.

But very soon 802.11ax will be released and 802.11ad will be distributed ... I think Mikrotik should start using 2.5GBase-T in the product lines of 2019.
Ilon Mask said the following:
When Henry Ford created cheap and reliable cars, people said: "No, thank you. What's wrong with horses? "He risked everything, and it worked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet
1000Base-T was adopted in 1999 - maybe it's time to go further ?!
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Wed May 16, 2018 4:26 am

Why do I need 2.5GBASE-T?
The introduction of 802.11ac WAVE 2 has made the 1000BASE-T standard a bottleneck in the network infrastructure.
If you use 802.11ac WAVE 2, the real speed reaches more than 1Gbit today.
Additionally, 2.5GBASE-T allows you to use an existing cat5e cable network
that's marketing BS
in real world scenarios is very very difficult to get more than 1gbps per AP

as i say on another topic created by you too

get a switch plus a router
 
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chechito
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Wed May 16, 2018 4:36 am

Actually, as you can see, MikroTik consider SFP and SFP+ the way into the future.
Or maybe it's simply because 2.5/5G chipsets are still new and something extra? Just a guess, I can't say that I know much about this. But eventually they should become mainstream and then they'll make it into new MikroTik devices for sure.
exactly

2.5g and 5.0g are basically downgraded 10g chipsets because that they are expensive

another problem behind that is 2.5g and 5.0g are being used by manufacturers (broadcom qualcomm etc) as tools to promote 10g as the main goal
 
avacha
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Re: 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T for MIkrotik

Wed May 16, 2018 10:35 am

2.5g and 5.0g are basically downgraded 10g chipsets
One big difference. For 10G you need new (and expensive) cable infrastructure. For 2.5G/5G you can use existing cat.5e/6 infrastructure.
I think we can see who is right after 3-4 years.

doneware
"pre-wave2?" it is now called politically correct "pre-wave2" :D in 2018? mother of god...
I repeat, in second half of 2018 we will have on mass-market consumer 802.11ax from D-link and ASUS... this will be not "pre-somethign", this will be mass-market product. Wake up, guys, 802.11ac wave 2 with 4x4, MU-MIMO, chipsets and mass-market devices already exist and 802.11ax is coming.

P.S. One reason why 2.5g is not needed in mikrotik case - because mikrotik cAP/wap/soho wireless are simply tra.. em, say it also politically correct - not good, and 1Gbps for _mikrotik wifi_ is unbeatable speed. :lol:

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