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acgomes
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R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:10 am

I am having a strange problem with an R450G: from time to time all lights turn off, User Led (green one above the Blue for Power On) lights up, no messages on log but “router was rebooted without proper shutdown”. Most of the times it reboots normally just after unplugging/replugging power cord, but sometimes User Led turns on again before the first beep.

As I found the case something hotter than usual on top, I took it off and did some tests: with nothing connected but a notebook with WinBox, System Health showed 39 to 44oC. Blowing hot air temperature increased to 51oC and… it happened!

But, if instead of blowing hot hair I increase processing to 100%, temperature goes to 58oC and stabilizes.

So my questions are:
- does this test assure the “freezing” is caused by overheating? Or is there something else I am not taking into account?
- once I’ve readen in other forums devices working with 60 - 70oC, is there any hardcoded upper-temperature limit I can change?

Many thanks for your help!
 
acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:05 am

Dear, I am repeating the tests today and the "freezing" is occurring with no processing at all, in a temperature of 49oC.

I am really in doubt if this has to be with temperature or something else, like a system corruption or I don't know what.

Please help me saying what you think or suggesting other tests.

Many thanks!
 
vodokotlic
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:16 pm

RB450 series is pretty old by now and has a history of bursting capacitors. Bad caps lead to bad power delivery which leads to system instability and crashes. There are threads on this forum which go into detail about diagnosing caps condition and resoldering new caps on the board. RB450 case is trivial to open so start by doing that and checking the board for bulging or burst caps and possible loose heatsinks on chips.
 
acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:36 pm

Many thanks!

Capacitors look OK, the router was bought less than one year ago and is working in an Air Conditioned room. This, and some tests where it did not freeze at 57oC or froze at 49oC is making me think there is another problem...

Is there a way to know how old is the hardware? I mean, when it was fabricated?

Thanks again!
 
mkx
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:44 pm

Is there a way to know how old is the hardware? I mean, when it was fabricated?
Some indication of device's fabrication date would be to check version of factory firmware (check output of /system routerboard print).
BR,
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acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:42 pm

Factory Software = 6.29.1

What does that mean? Was it delivered with version 6.29.1 of RouterOS? This version was released in 2015...

Factory Firmware = 3.24

What does this say about the condition of the capacitors?

Many thanks!
 
pe1chl
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:55 pm

It does not tell you the condition of the caps, only that it is some 3 years old.
51 deg is not a critical temperature at which it would crash.
Bad caps is the most likely reason. Maybe you are just unlucky.
 
acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:21 pm

Thank you!

Caps are not leaked nor bulged... even so, can they be bad?

I did three other tests now:
- updated RouterOS to 6.47... same problem
- did a factory reset... same problem
- changed power source to 12V... same problem! But at 57oC once and 52oC after. Strangely, in all tests with this power source the router managed to reboot automatically

In no test at all the autosupout file was saved: does that mean this is not a memory corruption or a bad configuration or the like? I mean, will a "software/firmware" problem always generate a autosupout file, but not a hardware problem?

Many thanks again!
 
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NathanA
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:38 pm

You aren't using the MetaROUTER feature on this router, are you?

-- Nathan
 
acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:57 pm

No, I am not. Last tests were done with factory default configuration.
 
acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:22 am

Actually Mikrotik always reboots some time after freezing: green light (User Led - the one above the Blue for Power On) turns off and it does a normal reboot, saying in log "router was rebooted without proper shutdown". Temperature shows 50oC, so it seems it reboots when temperature decreases.

This makes me think there is a process running continuously monitoring temperature (and maybe other parameters) and shutting down the system and rebooting it again.

50oC is not that high - there are threads in this forum with very high temperatures reported.

Does anybody know if this limit can be changed somehow?

Thank you!
 
Paternot
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:54 am

Couldn't be the other way around? A process starts using 100% CPU. The system freezes and reboots. Since there is less load, the temps go down. Maybe the problem isn't the temperature: maybe it is a symptom.
 
acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:14 am

That is what I thought when started to make tests, but processing is very low, 1 or 2%. And, if ambient temperature is low, the router can sustain 100% processing for a long time before freezing.

But it seems something is being triggered by the temperature, or together...
 
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NathanA
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:16 am

It is sounding more and more as though some physical component (perhaps caps, still without externally-visible degradation?) is defective on your board. If it isn't the caps, then it's probably not worth troubleshooting and servicing, unless you are already really adept at dealing with surface-mount components...

You already said you tried a different power supply. As a last-ditch, have you tried underclocking the CPU?

-- Nathan
 
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ingdaka
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:39 pm

How many years is your RB450G working, I use 5 of them in my company and I have scheduled them to reboot every 8 hours! Boy it's time to change!
Ilir Daka
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acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:22 am

It is sounding more and more as though some physical component (perhaps caps, still without externally-visible degradation?) is defective on your board. If it isn't the caps, then it's probably not worth troubleshooting and servicing, unless you are already really adept at dealing with surface-mount components...

You already said you tried a different power supply. As a last-ditch, have you tried underclocking the CPU?

-- Nathan
Yes, I did! It stands more time processing before reaching 50oC, but once reached... it freezes the same way...

Workload is not going to be high for this router, but ambient temperature certainly will, so, sooner or later it is going to freeze - probably midday, with everybody connected...
 
acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:28 am

How many years is your RB450G working, I use 5 of them in my company and I have scheduled them to reboot every 8 hours! Boy it's time to change!
I am using it for less than one year, users started to complain two months ago... in winter! If it was brand new it deteriorated very fast, if it was not... why it didn't freeze in summer?!

That makes me think of some protective upper temperature limit put in place recently...

Will downgrade and see what happens!

But... for what reason do you reboot yours every 8 hours?

Thank you!
 
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NathanA
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:34 pm

[...] I use 5 of them in my company and I have scheduled them to reboot every 8 hours!
But... for what reason do you reboot yours every 8 hours?
`
I, for one, think that's nuts:
Screen Shot 2018-09-02 at 3.30.40 AM.png
Also, for the record:
Screen Shot 2018-09-02 at 3.31.39 AM.png
-- Nathan
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
acgomes
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:23 pm

Did a last try: downgraded to the version you are using, 6.39.1... same problem.

Don't know why I am still not conviced this is a hardware issue... but I'am not expending more time on this.

So, to summarize for future reference:
- RB450G "freezes" at about 50oC, reboots automatically some time later
- sometimes it goes beyond 50oC
- Factory Software 6.29.1 (2015) and Factory Firmware 3.24
- in use for less than one year (don't know if was used before) in an Air Conditioned room
- started to freeze two or three months ago (winter)
- capacitors look OK
- tested with factory default configuration
- tested 6.39.1, 6.41.4, 6.42.6 and 6.42.7
- tested 12V power source
- tested reducing clock to 300MHz
- supout file is never created, there is nothing in logs

Concluded that there is a hardware problem preventing the unit to operate properly above 50oC (until someone discover a high temperature limit somewhere ;-) )

Many thanks you all for your kindly help!

All the best!
 
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NathanA
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Re: R450G overheating at about 51oC temperature?

Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:45 am

Don't know why I am still not conviced this is a hardware issue... but I'am not expending more time on this.
`
There is a very simple way to prove it to yourself beyond a doubt:

Buy another 450G. Put it in the exact same environment (in the exact same physical space, even...have it take the place of the old one) running the exact same config.

When the new one ends up working fine under those conditions, you have your answer.

-- Nathan

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