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CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:35 am

We still have packet loss to devices connected to a S-RJ01 at 100MBit plugged into a CRS317.
This is basic functionality of a switch. And this keeps going on.
Updated to 6.42.9 (stable) with no effekt.

Sure anyone want to put this into his core Network ?

@MT you have to put this restrictions to the product data sheet. If not you are cheating your customers.
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:41 pm

I confirm it but with MGMT port.
If i connect to MGMT port in 100BASE-T mode i see many FCS (CRC) errors on both sides of this copper link.
Trying to change ports settings (advertising modes, flow control, negotiation on/off) do not solve the issue.
But if i change mode to 1000BASE-T or 10BASE-T the connection starts working fine, without any errors/packet loss.

Could the Mikrotik comment on this issue?
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:38 am

Are there any caveats with 1G SFP modules as well? Because I obtained generic 1G SFP copper modules from fs.com and link doesn't get up. I'm not sure if it's just incompatibility with this particular module or more general incompatibility with anything except S-RJ01. Did you guys try any non-MikroTik 1G copper modules?
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:55 pm

Are there any caveats with 1G SFP modules as well? Because I obtained generic 1G SFP copper modules from fs.com and link doesn't get up. I'm not sure if it's just incompatibility with this particular module or more general incompatibility with anything except S-RJ01. Did you guys try any non-MikroTik 1G copper modules?
I am using FSP 1G modules to connect to a Zyxel switch. Works perfectly (using them in a LACP bond)
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:43 am

I am using FSP 1G modules to connect to a Zyxel switch. Works perfectly (using them in a LACP bond)
Hmm I had to disable autonegotiation and now they work. I'm having all kinds of various autonegotiation issues with this CRS317. S+RJ10 always negotiating to 10G even if there's 1G on another side, link not working in S+RJ10 with autonegotiation disabled and speed set to 1G, link not working in fs.com 1G copper with autonegotiation enabled. It's just some terrible random rollercoaster...
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:41 pm

Hi,

i can confirm the mentioned problem with the CRS317. i have about 3 devices which permanently report many Rx FCS errors when connected directly to a modulport. among others an Auerswald 5020 IP PBX.
2018-11-23 17_36_41-.png
a try out of various settings regarding Auto Negotiation / manual setting did not bring any success.

If I hang the devices that throw the errors on my DrayTek 2860 router everything is OK. Also, if I connect an unmanaged switch to the port and the fault-producing device(s) is/are connected to it, everything is faultless, but this can't be the solution.

A solution of the described problem would be really great

Greetings
David

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:30 pm

The following is the answer from MikroTik support:
The 100Mbps rate is not supported on S-RJ01 modules in CRS3xx series switches due to a hardware incompatibility.
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MikroTik ... ble#S-RJ01

Currently, we can only suggest using different vendor 1Gbps copper module. We are not aware that any other 1Gbps module would have such problem.

Sorry for inconvenience.

I thought if you already have MikroTik devices, you should also buy the SFP Trasciever from MikroTik.

How can MikroTik sell such a thing under its own name if even its own modules don't work correctly? Furthermore there is no option for sfp copper RJ45 modules available from MikroTik.

It's just not customer friendly. I must honestly say I am very disappointed, although otherwise the MikroTik devices have a very good functional range for this price range.

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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:21 am

Furthermore there is no option for sfp copper RJ45 modules available from MikroTik.
Huh? What do you mean. There are both SFP and SFP+ copper modules from MikroTik - S+RJ10 and S-RJ01. MikroTik SFP modules are quite cheap but nothing extraordinary. Some other vendors like fs.com can get you cheaper counterparts compatible with MikroTik.

Though it's worth to say that they again are "compatible" because I personally had to disable autonegotiation on fs.com SFP gigabit copper modules in order to make them work. Otherwise link didn't get up with autonegotiation on.

Another thing worth to mention is that historically S-RJ01 was not even retail product so it's not really "full" copper module. It was just free addon bundled with CCR1016-12S-1S+ to allow for copper management out of the box. It wasn't sold separately at the beginning. If it was meant to be used just for management it's not surprising that it has some compatibility issues. Also MikroTik in general has issues with copper modues. S+RJ10 is also piece of junk (it's incredibly cheap tho)
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:38 am

Please don't misunderstand, I hadn't put it right.
I mean there are the two adapters S+RJ10 and S-RJ01.

I am/was concerned with the S-RJ01 which is specified up to 1g but does not work correctly in the CRS317.
In my opinion MikroTik should indicate on the packaging of the CRS317 that the use of the S-RJ01 SFP module with speeds below 1g can be problematic. And offer alternative modules if necessary.

Which 1g copper modules from FS.com should work with 100Mbit? On the page there are two Generic SFP-GB-GE-T.

Thanks
David
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:51 am

Please don't misunderstand, I hadn't put it right.
I mean there are the two adapters S+RJ10 and S-RJ01.

I am/was concerned with the S-RJ01 which is specified up to 1g but does not work correctly in the CRS317.
In my opinion MikroTik should indicate on the packaging of the CRS317 that the use of the S-RJ01 SFP module with speeds below 1g can be problematic. And offer alternative modules if necessary.

Which 1g copper modules from FS.com should work with 100Mbit? On the page there are two Generic SFP-GB-GE-T.

Thanks
David
S+RJ10 should do the job with 100M. As there are some strange things going on I would stay with MT modules as it is more likely MT will make them work in their switches. This switches imho are still beta stuff so intensive lab testing is required before using them. They work but not under all conditions.
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:36 am

Which 1g copper modules from FS.com should work with 100Mbit? On the page there are two Generic SFP-GB-GE-T.
I believe all of them are the same. Actually all FS.COM SFP modules are the same. I even ordered F5 compatible ones and still got generic ones because they just work, also in F5. The only difference are vendor strings encoded in SFP header but considering that MikroTik most likely doesn't give a damn about those I think literally all of FS.COM modules should work properly in MikroTik. In generic modules description there's even explicit note about MikroTik compatibility. Though I'll need to check whether they can operate at 10/100 speed as I only tested gigabit.
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:14 pm

S+RJ10 should do the job with 100M. As there are some strange things going on I would stay with MT modules as it is more likely MT will make them work in their switches. This switches imho are still beta stuff so intensive lab testing is required before using them. They work but not under all conditions.

It seemed very strange to me that the values of the 10GB modules are displayed correctly in the SFP tab in the interface including temperature and supply voltage, and not in the MT 1G modules from MT. Now I understand why.
However, I find the temperature of the 10g modules with around 65°c is quite high, which is why I wanted to use the 1g modules. All in the expectation that they won't get too hot.


I believe all of them are the same. Actually all FS.COM SFP modules are the same. I even ordered F5 compatible ones and still got generic ones because they just work, also in F5. The only difference are vendor strings encoded in SFP header but considering that MikroTik most likely doesn't give a damn about those I think literally all of FS.COM modules should work properly in MikroTik. In generic modules description there's even explicit note about MikroTik compatibility. Though I'll need to check whether they can operate at 10/100 speed as I only tested gigabit.

I ordered corresponding 10/100/1000 modules from FS.com. Now it remains exciting whether these are up to the job.
Fortunately I got the CRS317 for the use in the basement, to realize the floor distribution over 1G switches, except for a few exceptions which are directly connected (VoIP System which unfortunately only supports 100m full duplex etc.).
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:04 pm

S+RJ10 should do the job with 100M. As there are some strange things going on I would stay with MT modules as it is more likely MT will make them work in their switches. This switches imho are still beta stuff so intensive lab testing is required before using them. They work but not under all conditions.

It seemed very strange to me that the values of the 10GB modules are displayed correctly in the SFP tab in the interface including temperature and supply voltage, and not in the MT 1G modules from MT. Now I understand why.
However, I find the temperature of the 10g modules with around 65°c is quite high, which is why I wanted to use the 1g modules. All in the expectation that they won't get too hot.


I believe all of them are the same. Actually all FS.COM SFP modules are the same. I even ordered F5 compatible ones and still got generic ones because they just work, also in F5. The only difference are vendor strings encoded in SFP header but considering that MikroTik most likely doesn't give a damn about those I think literally all of FS.COM modules should work properly in MikroTik. In generic modules description there's even explicit note about MikroTik compatibility. Though I'll need to check whether they can operate at 10/100 speed as I only tested gigabit.

I ordered corresponding 10/100/1000 modules from FS.com. Now it remains exciting whether these are up to the job.
Fortunately I got the CRS317 for the use in the basement, to realize the floor distribution over 1G switches, except for a few exceptions which are directly connected (VoIP System which unfortunately only supports 100m full duplex etc.).
Did some testing. There are different revisions of S+RJ10. The revision 2 shows data and connection speed. Revision one does not.
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:05 pm

The modules ordered by FS.com arrived today.
Generic Compatible 10/100/1000BASE-T SFP Copper RJ-45 100m Transceiver Modules
https://www.fs.com/de/products/75322.html
FS.com is extremely fast. Ordered yesterday at 12pm today by UPS at 13pm delivered.

The 100m devices also work on the new ports. And the most important without FSC errors.
The new modules also show no temperature in the configuration.

At least for my needs now everything works as desired.

The next thing I might order is a VDSL2 SFP modem module to test if I can connect to my DSL T-Com IP directly.
https://www.mikrotik-shop.de/Interfaces ... upihdnr767
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:16 pm

Did some testing. There are different revisions of S+RJ10. The revision 2 shows data and connection speed. Revision one does not.
That's interesting. It may suggest that at some point revision X of S+RJ10 won't suck balls anymore. At least not as much as it does now xD
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:24 pm

FYI: S+RJ10 make problems with bigger packets. Seems MTU is not transfered/set to/from the SFP correctly so bigger packets are dropped silently.
Killed our MPLS :-(
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:16 am

FYI: S+RJ10 make problems with bigger packets. Seems MTU is not transfered/set to/from the SFP correctly so bigger packets are dropped silently.
Killed our MPLS :-(
Yes, S+RJ10 doesn't support jumbo at all. It's know issue which makes this module pretty crappy.
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:08 am

FYI: S+RJ10 make problems with bigger packets. Seems MTU is not transfered/set to/from the SFP correctly so bigger packets are dropped silently.
Killed our MPLS :-(
Yes, S+RJ10 doesn't support jumbo at all. It's know issue which makes this module pretty crappy.
The real problem is: The interface settings of CRS317 allow to set higher MTUs and everything looks fine.

Sometimes MT realy bites it's customers badly. I had a bad long nightly session to learn this again. Luckily I was to tired to throw the crap through the wall.
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:19 am

FYI: S+RJ10 make problems with bigger packets. Seems MTU is not transfered/set to/from the SFP correctly so bigger packets are dropped silently.
Killed our MPLS :-(
Yes, S+RJ10 doesn't support jumbo at all. It's know issue which makes this module pretty crappy.
The real problem is: The interface settings of CRS317 allow to set higher MTUs and everything looks fine.

Sometimes MT realy bites it's customers badly. I had a bad long nightly session to learn this again. Luckily I was to tired to throw the crap through the wall.
I think it's because SFP modules are not supposed to not support jumbo frames xD Maybe there's no even way for module to announce it's unsupported because interface assumes it does. Or it's even just hardware bug and it was supposed to support jumbo but well... SOL.
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:31 am

FYI: S+RJ10 make problems with bigger packets. Seems MTU is not transfered/set to/from the SFP correctly so bigger packets are dropped silently.
Killed our MPLS :-(
Yes, S+RJ10 doesn't support jumbo at all. It's know issue which makes this module pretty crappy.
The real problem is: The interface settings of CRS317 allow to set higher MTUs and everything looks fine.

Sometimes MT realy bites it's customers badly. I had a bad long nightly session to learn this again. Luckily I was to tired to throw the crap through the wall.
I think it's because SFP modules are not supposed to not support jumbo frames xD Maybe there's no even way for module to announce it's unsupported because interface assumes it does. Or it's even just hardware bug and it was supposed to support jumbo but well... SOL.
It is a MT Module in a MT Switch. There is an ident-string they get from the module so they could do settings accordingly. If a value is not known they should indicate it. I looked at the errorcounters and got no overflow. So we have RJ-01 which does not work with 100MBit devices and RJ+10 which does only 1504 and does not fill error counters correctly. You cant trust anything and have to verify basic switch functions in lab :-(.
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:02 pm

This module seems to work with higher MTU (ordered a second to do some more testing):
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01M8O3MAL/ref ... fCb9X48VBW
Speed report is wrong (always 10G as with the MT-Module) and it needs all autoneg-fields to be enabled to link up.
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:13 pm

This module seems to work with higher MTU (ordered a second to do some more testing):
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01M8O3MAL/ref ... fCb9X48VBW
Speed report is wrong (always 10G as with the MT-Module) and it needs all autoneg-fields to be enabled to link up.
I'm pretty certain most of 10G modules will work with jumbo frames. They cost twice as much tho... So it's not really fair comparison. When I was looking for 10G SFP 60$ was already above my budget. Especially considering that 10G SR modules cost like 16$.
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:26 pm

This module seems to work with higher MTU (ordered a second to do some more testing):
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01M8O3MAL/ref ... fCb9X48VBW
Speed report is wrong (always 10G as with the MT-Module) and it needs all autoneg-fields to be enabled to link up.
I'm pretty certain most of 10G modules will work with jumbo frames. They cost twice as much tho... So it's not really fair comparison. When I was looking for 10G SFP 60$ was already above my budget. Especially considering that 10G SR modules cost like 16$.
I need MPLS so I just can't work with low MTU. Getting and moving the traffic for 10g is expensive. So 60 is not the problem.
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:28 pm

Are you booting RouterOS or SWOS?
I had these compatibility problems with SWOS, booted in ROS mode and It looks more stable.
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:44 am

This module seems to work with higher MTU (ordered a second to do some more testing):
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01M8O3MAL/ref ... fCb9X48VBW
Speed report is wrong (always 10G as with the MT-Module) and it needs all autoneg-fields to be enabled to link up.
I'm pretty certain most of 10G modules will work with jumbo frames. They cost twice as much tho... So it's not really fair comparison. When I was looking for 10G SFP 60$ was already above my budget. Especially considering that 10G SR modules cost like 16$.
I need MPLS so I just can't work with low MTU. Getting and moving the traffic for 10g is expensive. So 60 is not the problem.
Why copper tho? The only reason I just had to buy that one copper 10G module was because one of my servers has 10G copper onboard NIC so I didn't want to use media converter nor separate pci-e NIC. As long as there's no soldered onboard copper NICs optics sound like nobrainer for 10G. I actually recently bought SFP usb 3.0 dongle for laptop to completely ditch copper...
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Sat May 11, 2019 10:26 pm

Did anyone try actual 10/100 modules with CRS317? Or 10/100/1000 other than S-RJ01? I tried one 10/100 Cisco and some F5 Networks 1000 BASE-T but they don't seem to work with at 10/100 speed (not all that surprising). I used auto-negotiation=off speed=100mbps.

S+RJ10 also doesn't work when configured this way. It does though work with auto-negotiation=yes. CRS317 shows that speed is 10G but device on the other end (which is 10/100 printer) responds to all requests so idk... It seems to work but it's quite confusing.
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Sun May 12, 2019 9:29 am

Did anyone try actual 10/100 modules with CRS317? Or 10/100/1000 other than S-RJ01? I tried one 10/100 Cisco and some F5 Networks 1000 BASE-T but they don't seem to work with at 10/100 speed (not all that surprising). I used auto-negotiation=off speed=100mbps.

S+RJ10 also doesn't work when configured this way. It does though work with auto-negotiation=yes. CRS317 shows that speed is 10G but device on the other end (which is 10/100 printer) responds to all requests so idk... It seems to work but it's quite confusing.
The older S+RJ10 are crap. Wrong DDM information, low MTU, ... There was a post showing newer with MTU size depending on negotiation speed. So it is guesswork and luck making it work ...
 
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Sun May 12, 2019 8:01 pm

The older S+RJ10 are crap. Wrong DDM information, low MTU, ... There was a post showing newer with MTU size depending on negotiation speed. So it is guesswork and luck making it work ...
Is S-RJ01 also that troublesome?
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Re: CRS317 Problems with 100MBit Devices / What a shame

Sun May 12, 2019 8:28 pm

The older S+RJ10 are crap. Wrong DDM information, low MTU, ... There was a post showing newer with MTU size depending on negotiation speed. So it is guesswork and luck making it work ...
Is S-RJ01 also that troublesome?
No. But not sure if the packet loss with 100Mbit devices is solved.

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