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normis
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hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:30 pm

This is just a crazy theoretical concept to spark a discussion. What would you guys think about a switch that is aligned like this, with ports facing upwards, taking up a 2U space. The device would be able to slide out, to acess the ports. Much more ports than on a regular 2U switch.

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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:37 pm

Cabling nightmare ?
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:25 pm

Higher port density is awesome.

Just practically though I image a lot of problems replacing flyleads or cables in the middle of the switch (like row 6 column 12 for example).

Otherwise I like it. Do it. With poe please ;)
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:06 pm

Do you imagine this FAT-FAT-FAT cable boundle which you try to move to slide out/in a switch?
How to organize them to ease slide device out and not to have big gnarl when slided in?
How to protect cables against braking down RJ45 connectors?
How many empty Us above device needed to organize cables?

160 cables moved at once? No gym needed :lol:

Maybe "stupid" expander which increases number of ports without need to configure next device?
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:19 pm

Interesting concept, but I think a total cabling nightmare. Maybe a slightly different variation, have ports on the front and back, even if it's 2u that's fine. Maybe make an expander module that can be mounted on the front or back of the rack, via a fiber optic cable and connected power back to the switch. Would make it easy to have a top of rack back and front switch ports.


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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:33 pm

The concept is very creative, but in a "real world" deployment it would be a nightmare to cable.

I would prefer the traditional 96port 2RU option.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:18 am

I agree with the others. 48 port switches / patch panels already have very thick cable bundles, this would be a nightmare to manage cable-wise.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:59 am

It would definitely need built in cable management arm at the rear that helps slide and guide the cable bundle in and out. Even then I see the high density and effort as a very niche product personally.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:36 am

I...Maybe make an expander module that can be mounted on the front or back of the rack, via a fiber optic cable and connected power back to the switch. Would make it easy to have a top of rack back and front switch ports....
Just PoE powering. No need for next PSU.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:35 am

I prefer this design personally:

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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:44 am

Interesting idea. But would it be denser? It is, already, 2U in height. We will need at least another 2U - to keep it "organized" and not break the cables. So, it's a 4U switch already. I'd say 5 or 6U - it's hard to pass all this cables.

Wouldn't be easier to just make a 4U switch?
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:22 am

Nice idea, but no thanks. You would looks at least 1 - 2u anyway as you need space above and or below the switch - so no real point. A normal 48 port 1u or like NZ_Monkey said that Juniper is very nice. There is a much greater risk one could damage or unseat the cabling.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:25 am

No thanks, for cable managment this is nightmare.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:10 pm

I think it would be great, but you have to provide a specular, horizontal patch panel to put over...
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:35 pm

I'm not hating on it but wouldn't you just be better off with a design like that nz_monkey posted or lift a design like Netgears M4300-96X that can fit 96 Ports in a 2U Design ?
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:58 pm

Interesting idea, but I totally agree about the cable management nightmare.
Something like that could possibly work mounted in the ceiling of a rack cabinet.

If you keep the idea rack mounted, I'd still keep the ports on the front and/or back, and maybe put a high-speed interconnect on the top and bottom so they could be stacked without a backplane or using available ports.

Another idea is to combine a switch and a punchdown panel and made it rack and wall mountable.
However, that would be an absolute pain to replace if it ever went bad.

BTW: I realize my ideas aren't great, but maybe it'll help someone else come up with an even better idea.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:30 am

How are you going to keep dust and other foreign debris out of the jacks? If they are open to the top gravity will cause open ports to fill up and make them unusable.

Like others have said, cabling would be a nightmare.

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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:29 am

Nice concept, but it would be unusable in real world applications...
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:54 pm

I get it why you would think of this...Mikrotik's switches and routers fill only a small portion of what is considered usable rack space when it comes to size.
As others have pointed out, I don't think this design would be feasible in a standard rack.
You could build your own cabinets, but that would be very difficult to integrate in existing dc.:)

Why not try to use a vertical blade model on a unified chassis?
2 rows of vertical blades back-to-back should offer high density and enough access to ports. A custom wire manager should be simple enough to design and integrate.

You'd have a central system and just add interfaces to the backplane.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:55 pm

How about 1U with 48x 1G ETH ports facing both ways with 100Gbps QSFP stacking intreface ?
This way you could get 192 ports in 2U space. To even more save sapace make it with external, rack mountable, redundant power supply.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:56 pm

HOLY CRAP - how about SFP version???

Imagine using trunk cables for it like those:
https://www.fs.com/products/33887.html
Image

This wouldn't be nightmare to cable manage at all, Uniboot fiber patchcirds are incredibly thin, though it'd require to put SFP cages under like 45 deg angle to fit 2U with cables.

Also realistically it HAS TO use actual rails, not just ears to make it usable in conventional rack. If it could be moved out on rail for recabling it'd be awesome.

Also remember about vertical racks like this one:
Image
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:56 am

Is port-density an actual problem today? Especielly since we're getting affordable 10/25/40GE.

I would like to see an DIN-mounted switch of some kind that fits nice in outdoor/industrial enclousures. Maybe with 6-12 ports and some combos.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:08 am

Image

Image

Image

Image
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:14 pm

Upwards facing ports always are collecting dust.
And don't tell me everyone is putting dust-caps on unused ports...
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:11 pm

Look nice but will soon raise up problems in usage.
The best way to use it is in the ceiling of the rack, port facing down to avoid dust and ease usage.
Better to make front and back ports.

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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:01 pm

Better to make front and back ports.
And airflow from left to right. Hmm...

Front and back ports are actually devious idea since some types of hardware (networking gear) have front facing ports while some types of hardware (servers) have back facing ports. Getting rid of cables routing from back to front of rack would be wonderful. It'd be like cable management+switch device in one.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:36 am

I dont think it is wise and personally I wouldn't buy it even if I had the need to switch so many ports.

The concept shows 224 eth ports in 2U space
Normal 2*1U switch has 2*48=96 eth ports.
Unusual, yet conventional 2U switch could have bit more: If you remove all vertical spacing, you could actually fit 3 rows of eth ports in 1U therefore 6 rows in 2U. That might give us 3*48=144 eth ports which is already pretty high density. And all that without any sliding, vertical ports or cable bending issues...

Personally, I would be much happier if we finally get CRS354-48P-4S+2Q+ which was presented almost year ago. I actually had to buy switch from different company because we needed to clean up rack and there is not a single 48 port switch in mikrotik's range. :'( largest is 24 port and that is not enough nowadays. Instead of giant leaps, let's increase the density in usual way :-)

edit: rear ports (even if its just 4 or 8 of them) would be actually really cool!
Last edited by vecernik87 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:42 am

Personally, I would be much happier if we finally get CRS354-48P-4S+2Q+ which was presented almost year ago. I actually had to buy switch from different company because we needed to clean up rack and there is not a single 48 port switch in mikrotik's range. :'( largest is 24 port and that is not enough nowadays. Instead of giant leaps, let's increase the density in usual way :-)
Yeah I'm waiting CRS326-24S+2Q+ because current CRS317 also has pretty low port density. Not gonna even ask for 48 SFP+ ports in single switch bc I may get old before it happens...
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:33 pm

Although higher port density would be nice, the design doesn't seem feasible to me. In my opinion you should better focus on new RB or CCR/CRS models which can be dual-mounted in 1U. I definitely see a market for such devices in cases where redundancy is required but budget and space are limited (for example on customer premises, branch offices, etc.).

A RB4011 with smaller width and two SFP+ instead of one would be perfect:
- One fiber (ISP A / ISP B) to each RB as upstream
- One fiber between both RBs as example for running iBGP
- 8-12 copper ports for attaching customers switches, etc.

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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:29 am

I agree, SFP-ports is important, however I think all ports should be on the same side.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:11 pm

Standard 1U 48 ports are already a mess when cable arrangement is not managed
That layout would be a pain in the.......rack....
A front-side high density would be ok for a 3 or 4 rack units, but a lot of space wasted in depht.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:44 pm

Standard 1U 48 ports are already a mess when cable arrangement is not managed
That layout would be a pain in the.......rack....
A front-side high density would be ok for a 3 or 4 rack units, but a lot of space wasted in depht.
how about... vertical switch >_> like only 5cm deep so that you could mount it behind normal equipment (especially shorter ones), somewhat like giant rackmount PDU.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:06 pm

how about... vertical switch >_> like only 5cm deep so that you could mount it behind normal equipment (especially shorter ones), somewhat like giant rackmount PDU.
You can mount 19" equipment in front and back of a rack, the only notable problem can be air-flow if two devices share same U-position and force air towards their corresponding back sides (one against the other) ... not sure how would vertical switch make any difference in this regard?
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:45 pm

how about... vertical switch >_> like only 5cm deep so that you could mount it behind normal equipment (especially shorter ones), somewhat like giant rackmount PDU.
You can mount 19" equipment in front and back of a rack, the only notable problem can be air-flow if two devices share same U-position and force air towards their corresponding back sides (one against the other) ... not sure how would vertical switch make any difference in this regard?
Vertical switch would technicality use 0U since it could be mounted behind normal equipment just like PDUs are usually mount behind servers in the same U row. The only downside would be airflow obstruction since it'd realistically put metal wall behind equipment exhaust.

I'm not sure if I understood correctly but if you meant mounting regular equipment on both sides of the same U (so that they kinda blow exhaust air to the middle of rack) then it may sound doable with short equipment like routers or switches but long equipment like 1000mm servers usually don't leave enough space behind them to mount anything deeper than 10cm. Vertical switch could have 0cm depth if mount on the outside or around 4-5cm if mounted on the inside of rail.

It could be a bit problematic to mount it though since long equipment uses 4-point mounted rails and you can't really put one ears on top of another... But it could be mounted in different way. Or maybe bundle thinner ears which actually could be put on top of rear server rail ears.

Airflow obstruction wise it'd be equivalent of having 2U or 3U PDU behind server and you could use *all* U slots for long servers and still have switch in rack.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:08 pm

You're right, mounting two regular equipment pieces in same U-position is only possible for short equipment and that's what I've had in mind.
But then I'd never mount just anything behind full server chasis which could obstruct warm air exhaust ... 1-U server can easily consume 500W+ (and generate just as much heat) and I wouldn't like to dampen the air-flow cooling that owen.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:44 pm

You're right, mounting two regular equipment pieces in same U-position is only possible for short equipment and that's what I've had in mind.
But then I'd never mount just anything behind full server chasis which could obstruct warm air exhaust ... 1-U server can easily consume 500W+ (and generate just as much heat) and I wouldn't like to dampen the air-flow cooling that owen.
True, but from experience I can tell you that servers have insanely overkill cooling for extreme worst case scenarios. Such obstruction probably wouldn't change much (especially since you probably don't need to cover half of back door with switches, just 1 or 2 2U switches (I estimate CRS326 depth to a bit above 2U height)). I regularly replace those 15k rpm blowers with silent 5k fans that have significantly lower airflow and they keep up. It's just that in servers world 40 degree in chassis means "overheating". Whereas gaming desktop computers with noise optimized cooling usually have 50-60 deg ambient in chassis. You can compare it to CRS317 vs CRS326 - 317 enables fans above 40deg while 326 being passively cooled is totally fine with 70+ deg on CPU. It's not that 317 has lower tolerance, it's just configured this way following "better safe than sorry" rule.

My friend once witnessed complete malfunction of AC in one datacenter. AC was not functioning at all for around 8h. Temperature in room was so extreme that it was dangerous for human to spend more than few minutes in here, even though all doors were open and giant fans were brought to pump air through doors.

All servers survived without any damage. So I really doubt covering 2U on the back of rack would do anything. After all PDUs are commonly mount behind servers.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:02 am

how about... vertical switch >_> like only 5cm deep so that you could mount it behind normal equipment (especially shorter ones), somewhat like giant rackmount PDU.
Not a bad idea, but if mounted IN FRONT of other equipment.
Cable management must be in front side of rack to avoid headaches when maintaning patch cord connections

Unless the unit is intended for RIGID connections like a datacenter/server farm where all patch cords are installed once and moved no more like this:

Image
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:23 am

dont think this concept will work.
what i would like to see is a "port expander":
a Master Switch with all the intelligence and 1 or 2 Expand-Ports
a Expander with 24 or 48 Ports without intelligence

Just expand the port count without the need to manage another switch (nexus like)
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:23 pm

dont think this concept will work.
what i would like to see is a "port expander":
a Master Switch with all the intelligence and 1 or 2 Expand-Ports
a Expander with 24 or 48 Ports without intelligence

Just expand the port count without the need to manage another switch (nexus like)
+1 but it'd probably need implementation of switch clustering in the first place. So I guess it'd be hard to make with current ROS capabilities.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:25 pm

Not a bad idea, but if mounted IN FRONT of other equipment.
Cable management must be in front side of rack to avoid headaches when maintaning patch cord connections
I though of rear mounting since we were talking about environment with long servers and servers always have rear facing network cards. For example at work we have racks where all cables are in back or rack and in the end switch ia the only device with front facing ports and it's always pain in the ass since we always struggle to trace cables to back of rack.
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:17 am

What I would like to have from MikroTik is an standard 1U switch with more ports: 48x 10GbE, 6x 100GbE, dual power supplies. Therefore the Maxwell Prestera EX chipset (98EX54xx) could be used.

So, this would be a CRS354-48S+6Q28+
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:52 pm

At this point, just add the ports to the back of the switch. You'll get 96 10g ports + 6-12x 100g uplinks All in a 1U formfactor, then if you wanted to get fancy, i'm sure you could come up with a way to get 5 or even 6 port height in a combined 2U space. which would be up to 144 ports on the front plus another hundred on the back, etc...

That being said, mikrotik excels at having the weird solution no one else does(at a good price). so this may just be the solution for the guy who needs it.
 
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:58 pm

I had suggested in a previous similar post to build a chassis with blades. Could be switch blades, routing blades, whatever port configuration/speed. Could even have a fan blade, just in case. Hot swappable power supplies.

One blade is old? A faster one comes out? No problem, swap it.

Just make a fast backplane so the chassis can survive the tests of time and voila!

Cheers,

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lapsio
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:02 pm

I had suggested in a previous similar post to build a chassis with blades. Could be switch blades, routing blades, whatever port configuration/speed. Could even have a fan blade, just in case. Hot swappable power supplies.

One blade is old? A faster one comes out? No problem, swap it.
That would add one additional "0" to price. I saw modular hardware vs non-modular equivalent prices difference for other vendors. It's still hard for me to understand why would anyone buy modular hardware...
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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:08 pm

I had suggested in a previous similar post to build a chassis with blades. Could be switch blades, routing blades, whatever port configuration/speed. Could even have a fan blade, just in case. Hot swappable power supplies.

One blade is old? A faster one comes out? No problem, swap it.
That would add one additional "0" to price. I saw modular hardware vs non-modular equivalent prices difference for other vendors. It's still hard for me to understand why would anyone buy modular hardware...
Agreed, but it depends on clients and needs. Cisco versus more extensive MikroTik? Some might prefer the 2nd choice.

As I've said, blades could easily be replaced for a quick upgrade without having to rip the rest out.

Other idea I just had: stackable switches that get managed as a single device. Could be a good compromise.

Cheers,

Sent from my cell phone. Sorry for the errors.

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Re: hardware idea for a multiport switch

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:15 pm

Other idea I just had: stackable switches that get managed as a single device. Could be a good compromise.
From what I understand actual stacking is work-in-progress. Iirc someone mentioned after MUM that QSFP+ ports in CRS326-24S+2Q+RM are supposed to be used for more advanced stacking/clustering (not just uplinks)
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