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Florian
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2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:31 am

Hello,

Some ISPs are looking at testing 10gb ftth in 2019/2020. Right now, I've a 1gb connex., which is working great with my CCR1009-7G-1C-PC.

But in the futur, I will need a 10gb port. Even 2 (1 wan, 1 lan). So, the CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+PC looked good with the sfp+ cage, until I notice that It's the only 10gb port. I guess I can team some other eth port after that, but lacp is not a perfect solution.

Is there a futur product, mid range like CCR1009 (and passively cooled if possible), planned with 2 10gb ports ?

Thx you ?
- Sorry for my english -
 
joegoldman
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:12 am

You could use a cheap switch like Mikrotik's little 4 port SFP+ switch for WAN, LAN, Router

So WAN comes into switch, switch goes into router, router back to switch for output via LAN port.

Or you could upgrade to the likes of CCR1036-8G-2S+ but thats quite a bit expensive.
 
Florian
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:13 pm

You could use a cheap switch like Mikrotik's little 4 port SFP+ switch for WAN, LAN, Router

So WAN comes into switch, switch goes into router, router back to switch for output via LAN port.

Or you could upgrade to the likes of CCR1036-8G-2S+ but thats quite a bit expensive.
But in this case, I still need 2 10gb port on the router, right ?

"Switch goes into router" => So in the "wan" part of the routeur, need 10gb here.
"routeur back to switch for output via LAN port" another 10gb needed here on the "lan" router side.
No ?

Because I already do this, but with 1gb link, at the moment (ONT => Switch => Router(WAN) => Routeur(LAN) => Switch. I play with VLAN to isolate the ONT=> WAN traffic on the switch)

Image
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Paternot
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:21 pm

He is suggesting to make an "router on a stick". With the use of VLANs, and a smart switch, You can use the same 10Gb port to WAN and LAN.

But, with this setup, you can't use the full 10Gb - since we would have two streams using the same port.

With residential usage I don't think it would be a problem. How on earth one residential customer would saturate a 10Gb link?
 
Florian
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:51 pm

He is suggesting to make an "router on a stick". With the use of VLANs, and a smart switch, You can use the same 10Gb port to WAN and LAN.

But, with this setup, you can't use the full 10Gb - since we would have two streams using the same port.

With residential usage I don't think it would be a problem. How on earth one residential customer would saturate a 10Gb link?
Ah yes ok, I see it now. Thx. I don't think It would be a problem for residential usage either. Or if it is, It would be during a very limited time period I guess (when all the bandwith is needed/used...).

But how can you make firewall rules with the same wan/lan interface ? By using network/ip in src or dst instead of etherXYZ ?
- Sorry for my english -
 
Paternot
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:34 pm

He is suggesting to make an "router on a stick". With the use of VLANs, and a smart switch, You can use the same 10Gb port to WAN and LAN.

But, with this setup, you can't use the full 10Gb - since we would have two streams using the same port.

With residential usage I don't think it would be a problem. How on earth one residential customer would saturate a 10Gb link?
Ah yes ok, I see it now. Thx. I don't think It would be a problem for residential usage either. Or if it is, It would be during a very limited time period I guess (when all the bandwith is needed/used...).

But how can you make firewall rules with the same wan/lan interface ? By using network/ip in src or dst instead of etherXYZ ?
This one I don't know. I have never looked too much into this kind of setup. :D
 
joegoldman
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:58 pm

Switch:

Port 1 = WAN - PVID 100 (so access port on vlan 100)
Port 2 = LAN - PVID 200 (access port on vlan 200)
Port 3 or 4 = Router, Trunk port with tagged 100 and 200 VLAN

Making sure bridge vlan filter is on to ensure adherence to the tags and PVID.

On Router you have 1 physical interface, you create a VLAN 100 and a VLAN 200 interface on that physical interface, you then tag VLAN 100 as WAN and VLAN 200 as LAN, this gives you separate interfaces for WAN/LAN. Treat those 2 interfaces like you would physical WAN/LAN interfaces, only difference is they are virtual, but still reach final destination.

It should not reduce downstream or upstream performance too much, depending on your use case. However, if you are big enough to saturate 10gbit links and worry about the excess usage, you are well beyond $400/500 routers and should be looking at higher grade with multiple SFP+ ports (1036 for example)
 
Florian
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:30 am

Switch:

Port 1 = WAN - PVID 100 (so access port on vlan 100)
Port 2 = LAN - PVID 200 (access port on vlan 200)
Port 3 or 4 = Router, Trunk port with tagged 100 and 200 VLAN

Making sure bridge vlan filter is on to ensure adherence to the tags and PVID.

On Router you have 1 physical interface, you create a VLAN 100 and a VLAN 200 interface on that physical interface, you then tag VLAN 100 as WAN and VLAN 200 as LAN, this gives you separate interfaces for WAN/LAN. Treat those 2 interfaces like you would physical WAN/LAN interfaces, only difference is they are virtual, but still reach final destination.

It should not reduce downstream or upstream performance too much, depending on your use case. However, if you are big enough to saturate 10gbit links and worry about the excess usage, you are well beyond $400/500 routers and should be looking at higher grade with multiple SFP+ ports (1036 for example)
Thx a lot, I get it now.

And I'm not big enough, so when the time comes, I'll try that, if "next gen" products doesn't provide 2*sfp+ or 10gbe ports on the 400-500€ range by then.

Thx again !
- Sorry for my english -
 
mada3k
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:41 am

Router on a stick works well and many SoHo routers works by this way internally.

I also don't know how a residential customer could saturate 10GbE internet link.
Manages some CCR's, RB750Gr3, RB922 and wAP's
 
Florian
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:58 pm

Router on a stick works well and many SoHo routers works by this way internally.

I also don't know how a residential customer could saturate 10GbE internet link.
Saturating 1gb is pretty easy in my case. Now, 10gb, I don't know, it would depend of the servers I'm using, the peering quality of my isp, etc... (and yes, my LAN is already @10gb). But I'm not there yet :)
- Sorry for my english -
 
Florian
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Re: 2*10gb ports for a CCR ?

Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:04 pm

Hello again.

I'm thinking more and more about this since in France the isp Free is pushing 10gb (well, 8) in some areas.

What I don't understand about router on a stick is the bandwith impact. Port are full duplex nowadays, so, If i launch a download and can get 10gb/s... wan-vlan=>10gb router port receiving at 10gb =>cpu doing firewall, routing, etc => same port sending at 10gb =>lan-vlan. In theory, I can have a 10gb download speed... right ? (I'm not considering cpu perfomances here).

If I'm right, my only limitation would be that I can't have symetrical full speed, like downloading and uploading at 10gb at the same time, whick would never occures anyway. Am I right about this ?

And btw, do we know the limitation of tile cpus in this setup ? With fast path, I believe ipv4 will be fine, but I wonder about ipv6...

EDIT : seems ok for ipv4 at least : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=138626&p=683407#p683407
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