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omikron
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Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:50 pm

Hello, long story short - need to install a router between ISP's hardware and existing infrastructure that can handle 3000 concurrent users (unique mac addresses) with typical use - messengers/email/mild web browsing/youtube.

Need to select a proper hardware that won't meltdown under such load and will have some future-proofing in it. Please help.
 
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:17 am

Guys, could you please suggest a device?
 
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vecernik87
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:21 am

I believe that everyone is confused whether you want bridge (i.e. Switch) or router.

In addition, you didn't say much about required features. For example if you need only routing (L3 forwarding) and no NAT, no Connection Tracking, no Queues, then you might be satisfied with some basic CCR. However if you plan to do NAT and Queues, even CCR1072 might struggle and I would recommend to split the user's between several routers.
 
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sebastia
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:23 am

Hey

If it's just for relaying traffic (no PPPoE or the likes), then:
* you should mention what kind of traffic / load you have in mind
* also what kind of infrastructure design should it fit in, is an important factor
* and finally what kind of functions / role it should do
 
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:58 am

Hello, sorry my bad, I'm not a network specialist, just an average worker bee that wants to do things responsibly. If you have suggestions, corrections, better ideas - I will gladly consider them. Here are more details that will clarify the situation.

There is a public exhibition pavilion that belongs to a client with an existing working network infrastructure and ISP connection. I don't have much access to the the ISP's side of things, only clients infrastructure. It basically consists of several APs and lots of UniFi dishes. There are several segments in this network, that are connected to 6 switches, which are connected to main UniFi switch which is connected to ISP.

My task is to provide the client a pre-configured mikrotik device on routeros (there is an obligatory local law about public security etc... etc..), that could be installed either between ISP and existing UniFi switch or between UniFi switch and network segment switches. It depends on bureaucratic procedures with ISP, if it takes too long - device goes between main UniFi switch and network segments switches. If not - between ISP and UniFi switch. In any case this mikrotik device works like this - a new device is connecting to client's AP - this new device is being redirected to local authorization service (obligatory by law), after authorization - mikrotik device allows further internet access.

The pavilion may host up to 2000 people with one or two network devices (smartphones, notebooks) However some future proofing is desirable hence - 3000 concurrent users. Each device is expected to get 0.5-1.0 Mbit bandwidth with typical mild use - social networking, emails, youtube, web browsing, messengers, video/voice calls.

Based on that my worst case scenario is 3 gbit bandwith towards ISP with a sh**load of packets through mikrotik device. However I do not know which hardware in terms of processing capabilities/ram to choose. I don't know how to calculate PPS (packets per second) for such load. I don't want a meltdown and simply getting the most expensive device just because "it will handle it". I'm trying to get a proper device for the task. Could you please suggest a model?
 
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pcunite
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users  [SOLVED]

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:40 am

In any case, the MikroTik device will work like this - a new device is connecting to client's AP - this new device is being redirected to local authorization service (obligatory by law), after authorization - MikroTik device allows further internet access.

So, routing, NAT, and firewalling? You have a short list of options. The CCR1036 or the CCR1072.

If each user gets 1Mbps (1 million bits per second) and a typical packet is 1KB (1 thousand bits) then that is 1,000 packets a second. If you have 3,000 active users all streaming at the exact same second (not truly going to happen), you would need something that could move 3 million packets a second.

But, you'll be applying rules, QoS, and so on, I guess. So, looking at the different MikroTik options ... and their test results (which show packets sized at 1,518), the only safe consideration is the CCR1072. At $3,000, that is an investment. I should think you should start off with the cheaper CCR1036-12G-4S-EM and prove your real world usage.
 
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:07 am

But, you'll be applying rules, QoS, and so on, I guess. So, looking at the different MikroTik options ... and their test results (which show packets sized at 1,518), the only safe consideration is the CCR1072. At $3,000, that is an investment. I should think you should start off with the cheaper CCR1036-12G-4S-EM and prove your real world usage.
Thank you for this suggestion, I have an idea in my mind - since network is already segmented (6 secondary switches) I can try to make it more cost effective by using a pair of CC1036-12G-4S-EM (3 switch per unit) instead of single CCR1072. It will be roughly 2000$ but should handle this situation and still have some room for future.
 
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:09 pm


Thank you for this suggestion, I have an idea in my mind - since network is already segmented (6 secondary switches) I can try to make it more cost effective by using a pair of CC1036-12G-4S-EM (3 switch per unit) instead of single CCR1072. It will be roughly 2000$ but should handle this situation and still have some room for future.
Beware of link speed: These CCR You chose don't have an SFP+ port - they are all SFP. This means that You will be limited to 1Gb connectivity. They can route a great deal of traffic - but its distributed between their ports. If You need an ISP connection bigger than 1Gb, they will not do it.

How about the CCR1036-8G-2S+ ? It comes with two SFP+ cages. Same CPU, same clock. Only with far less memory - with "only" 4GiB and 8 ethernet ports. I don't think it will be a problem - as long You don't get a full BGP feed from the ISP.

If memory is really an issue, try the CCR1036-8G-2S+EM. It's almost the same thing You thought, but with SFP+ ports and only 8 ethernet ports.

You can look at them here - with specs and block diagram:
https://mikrotik.com/products/group/ethernet-routers
 
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:37 pm

Beware of link speed: These CCR You chose don't have an SFP+ port - they are all SFP. This means that You will be limited to 1Gb connectivity. They can route a great deal of traffic - but its distributed between their ports. If You need an ISP connection bigger than 1Gb, they will not do it.

How about the CCR1036-8G-2S+ ? It comes with two SFP+ cages. Same CPU, same clock. Only with far less memory - with "only" 4GiB and 8 ethernet ports. I don't think it will be a problem - as long You don't get a full BGP feed from the ISP.

If memory is really an issue, try the CCR1036-8G-2S+EM. It's almost the same thing You thought, but with SFP+ ports and only 8 ethernet ports.

You can look at them here - with specs and block diagram:
https://mikrotik.com/products/group/ethernet-routers
Thank you, this is what I missed, more bandwidth for future proofing. I may post an update after test runs.
 
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Re: Please recommend router as bridge for 3000 concurrent users

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:03 pm

Just a minor correction:

If each user gets 1Mbps (1 million bits per second) and a typical packet is 1KB (1 thousand bits) then that is 1,000 packets a second.

1kB is 1000 bytes or 8000 bits. So 1Mbps using 1kB packets yields 125 pps (packets per second). Per user.

I'd be interested to see some real life statistics over used packet sizes ... my own (very limited) statistics shows much smaller average packet size, around 400 bytes (3.2kb) ... If the same statistics was relevant for OP's use case, this would mean around 300pps per user or around 1Mpps over all.
BR,
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