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Artanis
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Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:20 pm

I'm a long time Mikrotik user (both have Mikrotik network devices installed in my home, as well as many different work-related projects), and now I'm about to move in to a new house, and I'm currently planning network infrastructure there. Which brought me back to a painful issue that Mikrotik devices are infamous for - port flapping. It's so absurd that I had to connect one of my IP camers through the 10Eur cheap-ass switch, just to connect it to Mikrotik router so it doesn't make ports flap - this is ridiculos...

There are tens if not hundreds of different topics, spanning at least 8 years, about this issue both here on Mikrotik official support forum, as well as many other forums. Correct me if I'm wrong, but where we stand right now:
  • As for now, there hasn't been a clear answer towards WHAT is the reason behind this issue (many have suggested radio interference in CAT6 cables, auto-negotiation issue, software issue, etc.).
  • Back in 2011 Mikrotik guys were actively and even agressively denying this issue exists at all. After a year or so there were already tens of people complaining about this problem, and Mikrotik finally admitted that they are aware, but can't replicate this themselves.
  • In 2016 forum post someone from Mikrotik team (Normis, I guess..?) said that they are working on the fix of this issue.
  • Haven't seen this issue being menitoned from them since (while there are reports of port flapping as recent as last year)

As I'm about to spend few hundreds of Euros (and especially given the fact that this time I'll spend my own, not client's money) on Mikrotik products - can someone from Mikrotik team confirm that this pain-in-the-ass problem has finally been resolved once and for all?

P.S. If you "still haven't found a way to replicate this problem" - I invite your tehnician to visit my current apartment (15 minute drive from your headquarters), bring some oscilloscope and debugging hardware, and feel free to explore this happening in real time here - as mentioned above, I'm currently experiencing this problem for a 5+ years now.
Last edited by Artanis on Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Zacharias
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:48 pm

May i ask if the camera is powered through POE from the Mikrotik or not ?
 
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Artanis
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:55 pm

Camera is powered trough the AC>DC external powerbrick located next to a camera itself. 15 meter long CAT6 UTP cable is running behind a drywall from router to the camera. If I connect this cable in any of the routerboard (using RB2011UiAS) Gigabit ports, port is flapping up/down every few seconds. If I connect this to the 100Mbit port of the router, it still flaps randomly every few minutes. My solution was to purchase the cheapest possible TP-Link 10Eur switch, and put it between the camera and router - port flapping problem gone.

What's more funny is that today I encountered the same port flapping issue with another IP camera that I was setting up, and it was connected directly to router with a super short 30CM STP premium cable, so there is no interference involved at all, imho.

P.S. here is my original topic about this problem 5 years ago - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=99054&p=492888#p492888
 
Zacharias
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:10 pm

port flapping problem gone.
Well since there is a switch between the router and the camera you cant tell if the port flapping is gone... Your RB has its port connected to the switch that actually does not cause any port flap to the Router... Then the camera is connected to an unmanaged switch that even if the port flaps you would never see it since it is a simple unmanaged switch...

Am not sure what camera you use but the problem could as well be there...
Remove auto negotiate and set the speed rate to 100Mbps full duplex... And give it a try...
 
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Artanis
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:18 pm

[..] even if the port flaps you would never see it since it is a simple unmanaged switch. [..]
Well, to be honest - I, as a user, don't particularly care whether the interface has some software-fixable issues in the background or not - I just want the network to work reliably. But once I connect the camera to the Mikrotik, the whole gigabit port group start flapping up/down, and if I connect to a 100Mbit port, that particular port starts flapping - so it obviously doesn't work at all. But once conneced through switch, it works stable and no issues whatsoever. As you can imagine - when spending 130Eur on a router, the last thing that I expect is that I will have to install a 10Eur switch just to get the damn thing work properly, right..?

Am not sure what camera you use but the problem could as well be there...
As just mentioned in my last post - today I connected a different Hikvision IP camera to the router (using a short and quality brand STP Ethernet cable), and router ports started to flap again. So not the particular camera, and not even a long cable that could induce interference.

Remove auto negotiate and set the speed rate to 100Mbps full duplex... And give it a try...
Did that in the first place many years ago, as well as today. Even lowered to 10Mbit - the same problem persists.

Before I order any more Mikrotik products, I will borrow one of the units from the next batch that we are installing in our client's locations, and test that one here in my apartment in the same setup - if the port flapping will still be present even on the different, much more recent hardware, unfortunatly I will switch over to Ubiquity or some other manufacturer, as this issue that are faced by many clients but not tackled in any way.
 
Zacharias
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:40 pm

I will answer you though my experience with Hikvision producsts as well as Dahua Products... NVRs, DVRs, XVRs IPC cameras and more...
Not even once i faced a problem with port flapping at least with the severity that you describe...
And i ve used most of the Mikrotik's Switches and Routers...
Did you try another Camera Model from the same Vendor ? From another Vendor ?
 
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Artanis
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:14 pm

The camera that was causing port flapping problems all these years is a very old D-link one. Camera that was causing port flapping again today is a latest generation Hikvision dome camera. Worth to mention that none of these cameras have any issues when connected to any other router/switch, or through switch to the same Mikrotik router.

In this situation one of three things can be at fault:
  • A faulty routerboard (or maybe just too sensitive/crappy NIC chip on the board by design)
  • A faulty/noisy power supply
  • An EMP-worthy local electromagnetic storm that has plauged my apartment :D

Just to get to the botton of all this, tomorrow I will remove the RB2011 from my network closet, I will get a new 24V power supply for it, I will assamble my whole setup on the desk, power both the router and camera through UPS, and will try to connect everything again in the same way, to give the router best possible operational conditions and eliminate all possible causes. Will report back on my findings - maybe it can prove useful to somebody else that is facing the same port flapping issue as I am.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Fri May 28, 2021 12:16 am

Hello,

have you somehow got a final solution?
I have 2 ports connected to the provider's fritzbox.
Cables already exchanged, fritzbox already exchanged, mikrotik RB4011iGS+ already exchanged.

May 27 22:37:14 MikroTik outside (ether9) link down
May 27 22:37:19 MikroTik outside (ether9) link up (speed 1G, full duplex)
May 27 22:39:03 MikroTik outside (ether9) link down
May 27 22:39:07 MikroTik outside (ether9) link up (speed 1G, full duplex)
May 27 22:45:43 MikroTik outside (ether9) link down
May 27 22:45:47 MikroTik outside (ether9) link up (speed 1G, full duplex)
May 27 15:37:05 MikroTik outside-local (ether10) link down
May 27 15:37:09 MikroTik outside-local (ether10) link up (speed 1G, full duplex)
May 27 15:43:29 MikroTik outside-local (ether10) link down
May 27 15:43:33 MikroTik outside-local (ether10) link up (speed 1G, full duplex)
May 27 15:51:50 MikroTik outside-local (ether10) link down
May 27 15:51:55 MikroTik outside-local (ether10) link up (speed 1G, full duplex)
May 27 17:51:17 MikroTik outside-local (ether10) link down
May 27 17:51:22 MikroTik outside-local (ether10) link up (speed 1G, full duplex)

ether10 is connected to the fritzbox private address, ether9 to the public one.
I already put an unmanaged switch between fritzbox and mikrotik and link flaps disappeared.
Unfortunately fritzbox does not have any logs I can check if link flap disappeared also on firtzbox side with the switch in between.

I can provide all data you request....
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat May 29, 2021 7:54 pm

My RB4011 + AVM 6591 setup is affected by the same issue in a similar configuration. I have ether1 connected to a public interface and ether2 to the internal FritzBox network.
Flapping occurs on both ports, so it's highly unlikely that it's caused by faulty cables.

I stumbled upon the problem in the RouterOS log when researching why my video calls via RB4011 were suffering from interruptions, although everything was stable when connecting the client directly to AVM 6591.

Some facts:
  • Neither ether1 nor ether2 are a bridge member
  • all settings of these ports are at default
  • flapping occurs regardless if ether10 poe-out setting is "auto-on" or "off", so it's probably unrelated to power usage
  • flapping of both ports appears to be non-simultaneously
  • ether3-5 are unused
  • no flapping on ether6-10, which are connected to several hap ac2 units
Last edited by whatever on Sun May 30, 2021 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
biomesh
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat May 29, 2021 8:30 pm

Try disabling rstp/stp on those ports/bridge(or set it to an edge port). Some devices just don't work well with rstp/stp and then switches cannot identify the port properly as edge/forwarding/disabled.

I recently got a new Roku and plugged it in the exact same switch port (TP-Link managed) and it would port flap for a few minutes while the old Roku was fine. I just disabled rstp on that port and it was fine going forward.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat May 29, 2021 9:59 pm

no STP / MPST etc running, I have a flat network without loops. I even had loop prevention off on these ports.
Even more they are routed ports, so not even assigned to a brdige.
I have 2011UiAS (prev. device) and had those 1 GB/s ports with 2 bridges in between the cables since yesterday and no flap today on neither mikrotik device.
As said I already exchanged the hardware (thanks amazon customer service...)
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sun May 30, 2021 10:25 am

Thanks for the hint, I took one of my hap ac²s, put two ports into an isolated vlan (via switch chip menu) and linked it between the AVM device and my RB4011 ether1.
=> No more flapping on ether1, no flapping on any of the hap ac² ports, stable connection.
RB4011 ether2, which is still directly connected to the AVM box, remains flapping.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sun May 30, 2021 12:30 pm

Just thinking remotely ... you never know it helps, or triggers ideas

- what happens if the AVM box is connected to the 2nd switch chip of the RB4011 (ether6-ether10) ?
- are you using an UPS for one of the devices or both? UPS (when they generate just square waves instead of pure sine waves) can introduce large voltage spikes between devices with "switch mode power supplies". eg. The error rate goes to high numbers when a TP-Link and Draytek ( to exclude MT behavior) are on the UPS, even when both are on the UPS.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sun May 30, 2021 7:13 pm

No UPS involved. I'm not even sure if Mikrotik is to blame, previous AVM boxes (6490) have a history of causing issues when specific switches are attached. It's probably an unfortunate combination of otherwise unnoticable issues on both ends. The workaround with an intermediate device is ugly, but at least the connection is stable now.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sun May 30, 2021 7:59 pm

well as wrote with my 2011UiAS I have no flapping either between mikrotik 4000 and miktotik 2000 nor between mikrotik 2000 and AVM...
Mikrotik 2000 just provides 2 bridges, not even different vlans..
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sun May 30, 2021 11:13 pm

My RB4011 + AVM 6591 setup is affected by the same issue in a similar configuration. I have ether1 connected to a public interface and ether2 to the internal FritzBox network.
Flapping occurs on both ports, so it's highly unlikely that it's caused by faulty cables.

I stumbled upon the problem in the RouterOS log when researching why my video calls via RB4011 were suffering from interruptions, although everything was stable when connecting the client directly to AVM 6591.

Some facts:
  • Neither ether1 nor ether2 are a bridge member
  • all settings of these ports are at default
  • flapping occurs regardless if ether10 poe-out setting is "auto-on" or "off", so it's probably unrelated to power usage
  • flapping of both ports appears to be non-simultaneously
  • ether3-5 are unused
  • no flapping on ether6-10, which are connected to several hap ac2 units
Edit: in my eyes, this case is not a MT issue but an isssue with crappy AVM firmware.

...I had a similar issue, when my ISP flashed a new firmware (7,21) to the AVM 6591 approx 6 weeks ago....before that (AVM FW 7.03 and 7.12) the AVM box had stable ports with my RB4011 for over a year.
I finally solved it by routing the AVM connection through a VLAN on my CRS326...
The previous AVM FW had other problems, with hardware acceleration so I finally gave in and kept it.
My ISP would not allow to flash the AVM FW manually, so we'll have to wait until they will roll out a newer one (current is 7.26 apparently)

FWIW, this bug is very nasty as it does not affect TCP connections that much...even MS teams videos / teaming sessions were not really suffering from a shot flap.
However, since this is a cable box also providing telephony, an existing call will be disconnected when the port flaps.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Mon May 31, 2021 1:22 pm

Thanks for your reply, I have 7.22 and a fritz 6591..
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:24 pm

Thanks for your reply, I have 7.22 and a fritz 6591..
....then you should try and update to 7.26, which hopefully solves it.
As said, my ISP would not allow for that on an individual basis. I now use the workaround as described above to the extend of sacrificing a switch port on my CRS326.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:57 am

thanks, mine is supporting it probably neither (vodafone)
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:52 pm

Just troublehooted this issue for several hours, so maybe my findings help somebody or make him waste less time. Setup is AVM FRITZ!Box 6591 attached to RB4011 on two ports (DATA + MGMT), both kept flapping randomly. I tried everything possible including factory-defaults, cable changes, STP/LoopProtect changes, changes to power supply, you name it.

In summary: It is a problem that arose just when my ISP Vodafone upgraded the 6591 box to firmware 7.22, never saw that on the previous 7.13. I was able to talk to a very friendly 2nd level supporter and he upgraded my 6591 box to 7.26 (which Vodafone are currently testing for rollout), but the problem remains!

As previously mentioned my solution was to install a Cisco switch with a pass-through VLAN between the devices. Next major version 7.26 won't help and I doubt the meanwhile released 7.27 will. But I second the notion that this is not primarily a MikroTik problem.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:28 pm

anyone tried 7.27 or even 7.28
today, I had no luck with the AVM support and the 7.22 which is on my vodafon box...
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:17 pm

FWIW, I dumped the Fritzbox and reverted back to a pure cable-modem, now running in Bridge-Mode....no flapps and uptime now 3+Weeks.
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:32 pm

great! Now Vodafone and AVM must stop to point to each other...
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:32 pm

hi all, I'm in the same situation (Fritzbox and ICX switch from brocade). I confirm it's not an issue from MKT but still don't know how to solve it...I guess it's triggered because spanning tree because the port goes in BLOCKING state even if I don't have any STP enabled of course. The port flap for exactly 90 seconds so I suspect something around BPDU. If anyone has a solution, please give a shout :)
thanks
 
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Re: Has Mikrotik finally solved port flapping issue in the newer hardware?

Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:32 pm

Solution #1: get rid of the Fritz
Solution #2: route the Port between Fritz and MT via a dedicated pair of ports of another switch

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