Community discussions

MikroTik App
 
Valerio5000
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Topic Author
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:38 am

Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:18 pm

Hello everyone, I find myself evaluating 3 MK products for what concerns the performance / coverage of the wifi.

1) RB4011iGS + 5HacQ2HnD-IN
[*] 3 dbi x 4 external antennas for 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz
[*] 2.4 GHz 28 dbm tx max
[*]5 Ghz 33 dbm tx max
2) RBD53iG-5HacD2HnD (hAP AC3)
[*]3 dbi for 2.4 Ghz + 5.5 dbi for 5 Ghz x 2 external antennas
[*]2.4 Ghz 25 dbm tx max
[*]5 Ghz 26 dbm tx max
3) RBD53GR-5HacD2HnD & R11e-LTE6 (hAP AC3 LTE)
[*]3 dbi for 2.4 Ghz + 5.5 dbi for 5 Ghz x? internal antennas
[*]2.4 Ghz 27 dbm tx max
[*]5 Ghz 26 dbm tx max

In your opinion, which ones will allow me to have the best wifi coverage on the card?

I take this opportunity to ask a question about the LEDs of hAP AC3 and AC3 LTE; what do the 5 leds with cleats indicate? Can they be set to indicate individual ethernet port activity?
31f2XyPDVtL._AC_.jpg
Thanks to who will answer me;)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
User avatar
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 11383
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:04 am

If you set up wireless interface according to local legislation, then most probably there will be no difference between Tx power of all three units, clients will measure same signal strength from any of those APs. These days most countries limit wireless devices to 20 dBm or (less frequently) 30 dBm EIRP ... and EIRP is sum of transmitter power and antenna gain. If antenna gain is 5.5 dBi and max EIRP allowed is 20 dBm, then transmitter can legally transmit only at 14.5 dBm.

The difference comes from two details:
  1. power backoff for high-bitrate modes. If you look at wireless specification for various models (e.g. for RB4011), you will see that Tx power for MCS9 is quite much lower than for MCS0. If country regulations allow e.g. 30 dBm EIRP, then with antenna gain of 5.5. dBi transmitter can transmit at maximum 24.5 dBm. RB4011 can do it for all transmission rates while hAP ac3 can do it only for lowest speed transmission modes. Lack of power means worse reception by receiver which in turn translates to lower throughput for client which is in sub-optimal AP coverage.
  2. receive sensitivity. Remember that wireless connection is two-way. If transmitter is limited with Tx power (either due to technical reasons or due to regulations), then receiver with better sensitivity helps (for traffic in that direction). Unlike Tx power, when talking about sensitivity lower number (more negative) is better.

When considering both factors it turns out that on 5GHz RB4011 is some 7 dB better than hAP ac3 in Tx (26 dBm v.s. 19 dBm for MCS9) and 2dB better in Rx (-72 dBm v.s. -70 dBm for MCS9).
 
User avatar
doneware
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:39 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:09 am

you should be able to set the leds in /system leds as follows
[me@ltap5] /system/leds> add leds=cap-led interface=ether1 type=
ap-cap     flash-access  interface-...  modem-technology  on         poe-out                   wireless-status
fan-fault  gps-valid     modem-signal   off               poe-fault  wireless-signal-strength  
[me@ltap5] /system/leds> add leds=cap-led interface=ether1 type=interface-
interface-activity  interface-speed      interface-speed-100G  interface-status  
interface-receive   interface-speed-25G  interface-speed-1G    interface-transmit
if the menu is empty, you can add LEDs one by one, or even in groups if you need to display something like RSSI.

i'd choose hap ac3 w/o LTE as it can run routerOS7 with the new wifiwave2 package, whereas the LTE version cannot.
RB4011 is also great, but the wifiwave2 package doesn't support the 2.4GHz radio so far.
in terms of throughput, clearly the 4011 is the king - you can even get near-gigabit throughput on the wifi with a capable client.
 
Jakica
newbie
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:41 am

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:00 am

Don't know much about 4011 as i don't have it, but i can tell you that my hap ac3 wifi performance is lacking...
I tried to tinker with the settings alot (and i mean - alot!), and don't get me wrong, the coverage range is absolutely fine if you ask me, but it gets totally beat in throughput by some other routers way below its price range (e.g. Tenda ac8, TP-Link Archer c6...). 2.4GHz isn't so bad as 5GHz, but it still isn't what you would expect from a wireless chip with this specs.

And before anyone starts screaming at me to try out the new wifiwave2... yea i tried - ROS 7.1b4, and on a first reboot - boot loop... reinstalled it - boot loop... :P
Sooo, for now I am crossing out this option which i believe would somewhat increase overall performance (especially in noisy environments) but for now i have another cheap dedicated AP on top of it that does its job way better.

As far as routing throughput goes, it doesn't even break a sweat on my FTTH 1/1 gb/s (even without FT, although it gets a little bit hotter) while Im connected via ethernet.
 
User avatar
doneware
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:39 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:09 am

And before anyone starts screaming at me to try out the new wifiwave2... yea i tried - ROS 7.1b4, and on a first reboot - boot loop... reinstalled it - boot loop... :P
strange. then i am the luckiest man alive with my audience, which replaced 3 other APs in my home. it is rock stable, so far i did not had any crash/boot loop/kernel panic - i started with 7.1b4 + wifiwave2 and now it is running 7.1b5 with ww2 + the new iot package. i have to admit i only use the 2.4Gig and the 4x4 5Gig radio, and it is just a 'dumb AP'. and i have superior wireless performance, around 600Mbps in both direction - measured with iperf3

apart from that 4x4 radio, it's essentially a hap ac3, even the switch is the same.
 
Valerio5000
Frequent Visitor
Frequent Visitor
Topic Author
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:38 am

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:49 am

you should be able to set the leds in /system leds as follows
[me@ltap5] /system/leds> add leds=cap-led interface=ether1 type=
ap-cap     flash-access  interface-...  modem-technology  on         poe-out                   wireless-status
fan-fault  gps-valid     modem-signal   off               poe-fault  wireless-signal-strength  
[me@ltap5] /system/leds> add leds=cap-led interface=ether1 type=interface-
interface-activity  interface-speed      interface-speed-100G  interface-status  
interface-receive   interface-speed-25G  interface-speed-1G    interface-transmit
if the menu is empty, you can add LEDs one by one, or even in groups if you need to display something like RSSI.

i'd choose hap ac3 w/o LTE as it can run routerOS7 with the new wifiwave2 package, whereas the LTE version cannot.
RB4011 is also great, but the wifiwave2 package doesn't support the 2.4GHz radio so far.
in terms of throughput, clearly the 4011 is the king - you can even get near-gigabit throughput on the wifi with a capable client.
Hi, thank you all for the very kind answers as always;)

So are you confirming me that on HAP AC3 - AC3 LTE I can set those LEDs to the ethernet interfaces 1-5? I care that they visualize the activity of the individual ethernet ports is very important to me
 
User avatar
doneware
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:39 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:36 am

So are you confirming me that on HAP AC3 - AC3 LTE I can set those LEDs to the ethernet interfaces 1-5? I care that they visualize the activity of the individual ethernet ports is very important to me
i can't confirm it 100%, but routerOS tends to work so. right now i don't have access to hap ac3-lte, but i will ask around whether there's one available for a short test in my area.
 
Jakica
newbie
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:41 am

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:46 pm

And before anyone starts screaming at me to try out the new wifiwave2... yea i tried - ROS 7.1b4, and on a first reboot - boot loop... reinstalled it - boot loop... :P
strange. then i am the luckiest man alive with my audience, which replaced 3 other APs in my home. it is rock stable, so far i did not had any crash/boot loop/kernel panic - i started with 7.1b4 + wifiwave2 and now it is running 7.1b5 with ww2 + the new iot package. i have to admit i only use the 2.4Gig and the 4x4 5Gig radio, and it is just a 'dumb AP'. and i have superior wireless performance, around 600Mbps in both direction - measured with iperf3

apart from that 4x4 radio, it's essentially a hap ac3, even the switch is the same.
Well I'm speaking just from my experience. I didn't dig deep as why it was boot looping, didn't have the time and the patience...

Yea, the audience and hap ac3 are very similar on hardware level...
It could be that the roles are reversed, maybe I am the unluckiest man alive.

If someone has the non-LTE hap ac3, can get the ROS 7 with ww2 to work, it would be very interesting to see the performance difference.
 
User avatar
doneware
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:39 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:11 pm

If someone has the non-LTE hap ac3, can get the ROS 7 with ww2 to work, it would be very interesting to see the performance difference.
the CPU and RAM is OK, the only issue is the flash size. in theory one could just throw away all the other drivers and repack the NPK, but without signature it is not possible to install it.
not sure though how netinstall would handle 'tampered' npks.
 
User avatar
Znevna
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:04 pm

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:05 pm

the non-LTE version of hAP ac3 has 128MB storage, do you need more than that? https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac3
 
Jakica
newbie
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:41 am

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:20 am

If someone has the non-LTE hap ac3, can get the ROS 7 with ww2 to work, it would be very interesting to see the performance difference.
the CPU and RAM is OK, the only issue is the flash size. in theory one could just throw away all the other drivers and repack the NPK, but without signature it is not possible to install it.
not sure though how netinstall would handle 'tampered' npks.
non-lte Hap Ac3 has 128MB of flash, just like audience. The LTE version has 16MB for some reason...
 
User avatar
SiB
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:54 am

You can change LED behavior to show a signal LTE RSRP like that example: LED SIGNAL per RSRP (search : "Final Release" for code)
 
jbtrix
just joined
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:15 pm

Re: Wifi RB4011 - HAP AC3 - HAP AC3 LTE

Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:37 pm

And before anyone starts screaming at me to try out the new wifiwave2... yea i tried - ROS 7.1b4, and on a first reboot - boot loop... reinstalled it - boot loop... :P
strange. then i am the luckiest man alive with my audience, which replaced 3 other APs in my home. it is rock stable, so far i did not had any crash/boot loop/kernel panic - i started with 7.1b4 + wifiwave2 and now it is running 7.1b5 with ww2 + the new iot package. i have to admit i only use the 2.4Gig and the 4x4 5Gig radio, and it is just a 'dumb AP'. and i have superior wireless performance, around 600Mbps in both direction - measured with iperf3

apart from that 4x4 radio, it's essentially a hap ac3, even the switch is the same.
can you please post your wireless configuration here?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests