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rombaran
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how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:29 pm

Hi, i have bought second hand hAP ac2 router. i have discovered, that the device is limited to webfig interface with a user account without admin access. hard reset procedure doesnt work and even the netinstall doestn work, i guess it has been disabled. is there a way to hard reset this thing when i open it so i could flash it with regular firmware?
 
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normis
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:46 am

Please contact the seller, if they sold you a locked device, you can't "unlock" it. It might be stolen or hacked. I suggest getting your money back.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:50 am

it was not stolen or hacked, previously it was sold by an telecom operator in Slovakia as a regular AP. the whole thing is completely legal. what happened, they customized heavily the device so regular customers would not mess around it and the telecom operator would not have to provide support for it. but now the whole thing is over, regular customers are in large selling the devices second hand and i bought one like really cheap. if i would not want to customize it for my network, it would be fully operable as a basic wifi AP, but i want the additional features (like turn the DHPC off :)). i contacted the operator but as expected, they said, they dont care. so my question remains, is there a way to completely erase this device if i have full access to it? like some jumper on the board or something. i dont mind the risk of bricking the device as it has cost me maybe 20 euros, if it works i will be happy, if it doesnt work, i can live with it.
 
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normis
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:51 am

It depends on how it is protected.

If only a password is set, simple reset procedure will clear it.
If protected mode is enabled, you can't reset it. You must return to seller.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:02 am

i guess the protected mode is enabled as the regular procedure doesnt work.
 
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normis
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:09 am

Protected mode disables reset and netinstall modes, unless you know a special procedure for the reset button. You would have to hold the button, for example, for 25 seconds, then it unlocks. If you don't know this setting, there is nothing you can do.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:23 am

ok, i have read about the reformat-hold-button a reformat-hold-button-max properties, which are probably set, and which i dont know. i was just wondering, if there is some possible hardware option to do reset. i could even try to unsolder something from the board if that would help, as i said i dont mind the risk of destroing the board in the procces, it is just not usefull for me in current stage.
 
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normis
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:32 am

The idea is to protect device against stealing. If somebody steals it, there is no way to get inside and get your passwords and config, also making the device useless to steal (because it is unusable).

So there is no workaround. It can't be used, if you don't know the reformat time setting
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:44 am

that is a pretty stupid idea, it the device is completly reset, than there is no way someone can get the credentials, so complete reset should be allowed in any circumstances.
 
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normis
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:45 am

Please don't buy devices from unknown sellers, without checking the condition of the device first
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:22 am

that is a pretty stupid idea, it the device is completly reset, than there is no way someone can get the credentials, so complete reset should be allowed in any circumstances.
And if they sold it to you, they didn't give you the passwords ???
If it's true that they sold it to you, maybe you stole it and are pretending you bought it.

This is a GREAT idea because if someone steal the device, has to fatigue to reuse it...
Configuration or not.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:28 am

As reformat-hold-button is 5s to 300s and it's an integer, you need up to 296 attempts increasing the time by one second on each attempt. Power on/off and pressing the button could be automated with an Arduino or something, it would take about 13 hours to try all possible button hold times in increasing order. Or is there some self-destruct feature after too many attempts?
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:36 am

hAP ac^2 have surely recent RouterBOOT version, greather than 6.43.7.
From 6.43.7 is till 600 seconds and you must wait 5 minutes before can be appear on netinstall (for full internal flash format).
If you do not wait, you do not know if you have guess the time, ignoring the delay from 5 to 600, there are 595 possible values * 5 min = 123Hours (ignoring the button press time)
adding also that we go to necessary like 140 hours to do all possible combination (near 5 days), and all the time you must be on front of pc for see if the device appear on netinstall...
On format flash from "BIOS", you also lose the licence.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:01 pm

"Easiest" way is to desolder the SPI flash, change the bytes that in bootloader configuration block that lock the device and solder it back.
At least it's just SPI chip that's not that hard to work with and can be programmed with cheap CH341A programmer (just make sure if you buy one off ebay to fix it so it's 3.3V, as default is 5V and that WILL fry your SPI memory!). To know what bytes needs to be changing, it's best to have another hAP and compare memory contents without bootloader lock active and with it locked.
Actually if it's running older ROS you can just dump the SPI memory to recover the admin password, log in, disable the protected routerboot and you are done.

This is the SPI flash memory chip:
.jpg
It may also be possible to connect to it using SPI header pins on the right, but main CPU must not access it at the same time (would have to hold it in reset or something... in circuit programming may be tricky).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:31 pm

It may also be possible to connect to it using SPI header pins on the right, but main CPU must not access it at the same time (would have to hold it in reset or something... in circuit programming may be tricky).
Well, we can assume that these pads are used in the factory to program the device, so it should be possible to use them.
Indeed you need to find what the exact procedure is.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:16 am

that is a pretty stupid idea, it the device is completly reset, than there is no way someone can get the credentials, so complete reset should be allowed in any circumstances.
This is not a stupid feature. In a holiday resort youngsters thought to solve their internet connection by pushing the reset button. (like initiating a reboot). They whiped the config instead.
As all the hAP ac2 are powered with PoE the network connection is on port 1, which is the WAN port by default.
I had to break in, via another hAP ac2, to restore the config with the WPA2/enterprise access to internet.

Since then all hAP ac2 in the resort are now configured with a lengthy "Protected RouterBoard" setting. That made them temper proof.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:42 am

In a holiday resort youngsters thought to solve their internet connection by pushing the reset button. (like initiating a reboot). They whiped the config instead.

I think that to prevent resetting device to factory default config, the "Configure script" option of netinstall is the way to go ... it replaces MT's default config and when device is ordered to reset to default configuration, this is the default configuration.

I'm not sure if default configuration script can set administrator's password though. Anybody tried that?
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:51 am

I think that to prevent resetting device to factory default config, the "Configure script" option of netinstall is the way to go ... it replaces MT's default config and when device is ordered to reset to default configuration
Ok, but what if you have 50+ or 100+ more APs to configure, would you have to follow the netinstall procedure for each one of them ? Is there a quicker way to do this ?
 
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mkx
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:04 am

I think that to prevent resetting device to factory default config, the "Configure script" option of netinstall is the way to go ... it replaces MT's default config and when device is ordered to reset to default configuration
Ok, but what if you have 50+ or 100+ more APs to configure, would you have to follow the netinstall procedure for each one of them ? Is there a quicker way to do this ?
AFAIK netinstall is the only way of replacing default config. Call it security feature :wink:
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:37 am

Having another default config would be great indeed.
The actual configs are still evolving (30 AP, 200+ devices) for tuning: better roaming, speed, avoiding broadcast, avoiding sticky clients, interference, neighborgs wifi changes, ....) but having a config that makes the ether1 open for management (not a WAN port or adapted Firewall) would make restoring to the latest tuned config just very simple.
Reset with script execution ?
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:45 pm

Reset with script execution ?

Not exactly the same ... it doesn't replace the default config, so if a kid presses button for just the right amount of time, device will still revert to mikrotik's default config. Reset with script helps with initial setup when reset is intentional and some (minor) initial setup has to be done to re-gain management access.

I'm thinking that the custom "default settings" can be some bare minimum ... simply configuring wired port for remote management (e.g. setting up VLAN for management, running DHCP client on it, some simple firewall). The rest can then be done remotely, perhaps using some management tools, possibly over TR069, or similar). And if script is simple enough, it can be used network-wide.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:49 pm

I think it would be very useful if the default configuration could be replaced more easily...
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:09 pm

Part of this reset story by tenants or non-management people, is that they have learned so many times from helpdesk people to power-reset a device as action to resolve a problem, that they just try to do that.
But there is no power on/off switch, the power is by PoE, the RJ45 connector is locked, and there is a "Reset" button visible. What could go wrong?
Tempting ... I understand that they try the reset, as management is 1200km away, and only known by the owner.

The remote config of a new "out of the box" AP, or after a reset is over WLAN from another MT router as station.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:39 pm

Ease of default config replacement inevitably clashes (or rather goes hand in hand) with ease to abuse it. And easily leads to even more bricked devices if config is replaced by person not experienced with ROS enough.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:45 pm

Ease of default config replacement inevitably clashes (or rather goes hand in hand) with ease to abuse it.
Replace default config would be one of those operations that requires confirmation on the physical device (press the button).
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:22 pm

Ease of default config replacement inevitably clashes (or rather goes hand in hand) with ease to abuse it.
Replace default config would be one of those operations that requires confirmation on the physical device (press the button).
Yes that would be best...
And easily leads to even more bricked devices if config is replaced by person not experienced with ROS enough.
If someone not experienced replaces the default configuration then he can contact an experienced user to fix it...
Also that function could be added through terminal only...
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:33 pm

If someone not experienced replaces the default configuration then he can contact an experienced user to fix it...
Well, I think we are not too worried about inexperienced persons fouling up their router, but more about criminal hackers taking over a router and at the same time replacing the default config so when the (inexperienced) owner does a full reset to defaults, the hacker still owns the device.
That is why I proposed the "press the button" safety guard to prevent remote users from changing the default config.
 
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Re: how to HARD HARD reset hAP ac2

Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:47 pm

While I agree that replacing default configuration could be made easier (not requiring netinstall) I still think it shouldn't be possible to perform it too easily. Suggestion by @pe1chl about button press sounds reasonable to me.

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