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SFP+ on the small devices

Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:20 pm

I'd like to advocate for adding a single SFP+ port to MikroTik's small (4-6 port) routers and switches.

One of the reasons you buy such a device is that you’re trying to avoid pulling several runs of wire back to a big centralized switch. If you provide a 10G uplink to that big switch, you get the speed benefit of separate runs without the wire-pulling cost. Each gigabit downlink port effectively gets its own full-width lane back to the network core.

I'd like to see something like a "hEX S+" or an "RB260GS+" for cases like this.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:56 pm

CSS610 - Or it has one port to much?

A CRS610 would be nice though.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:18 am

Yes, a router version of the CSS610 would be helpful. That and the lack of PoE is why it dropped off my list of options for the core switch pretty early on.

However, the CSS610 would fit into the "leaf" role from my "holes at the low end of the CSR line" thread. (I'm posting multiple threads to avoid confusing issues, but there's a necessary level of entanglement here. A network of problems, you might say. 😉) It would just be nice to have a few more options. Even 8 GigE ports is sometimes excessive. A 4+1 device would fill many small niches.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:29 am

Yes, a router version of the CSS610 would be helpful. That and the lack of PoE is why it dropped off my list of options for the core switch pretty early on.

However, the CSS610 would fit into the "leaf" role from my "holes at the low end of the CSR line" thread. (I'm posting multiple threads to avoid confusing issues, but there's a necessary level of entanglement here. A network of problems, you might say. 😉) It would just be nice to have a few more options. Even 8 GigE ports is sometimes excessive. A 4+1 device would fill many small niches.
Having a small sized, low PoE port count with SFP+ uplink would be perfect for WiFi deployments as you can't easily centralize cabling in this case.
The 8 ports PoE device (with 2 SFP+ uplinks and several powering options)that was announced (CSS610-8P-2S+) during MUM 2019 would perfectly fit my needs for such WiFi deployments.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:57 pm

8P-2S+ would make sense in some ring-like scenarios. 4P-1S+ would just be ridiculous.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:58 pm

8P-2S+ would make sense in some ring-like scenarios. 4P-1S+ would just be ridiculous.
I think a four 2.5Gb/s PoE ports with a single SFP+ uplink would also make sense but I only one device to select, I would pick the 8 ports one.
2.5Gb/s is also interesting in WiFi as WiFi bandwidth now theorically exceeds 1Gb/s.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:11 pm

The 2.5Gbps RJ port variant would then be a ...4P+1S+ (according to official naming guide).
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:23 pm

Is it realistic that four APs would max out their 1 or 2.5Gbps uplink simultaneously?
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:50 pm

I don't know about MikroTik APs, but I've got a third-party 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6) one here that'll push 600 Mbit/sec through a cinderblock wall. Four of those working together on non-adjacent channels, and there you are, saturating a 2.5 Gbit/sec uplink.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:10 pm

Yes, it is theoretically possible. But how often does that happen? And does Mikrotik need to design and construct a specific device for that short scenario?
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:50 pm

how often does that happen?

It will happen increasingly often as people upgrade their APs. WiFi-6 isn't super-common today, but it will be soon.

Furthermore, I started this thread with wired examples, where it's even more common to see link saturation. Just one scenario: you have a 10G NAS feeding several clients. Each one can get 1 Gbit/sec back to the NAS without saturating the 10G link.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:46 pm

I'm not saying that nobody will need more than Gbps in near future.

But, in home environment, how often do we really see need for 2.5Gbps+ connections? E.g. can your home NAS sustain transfer speeds considerably exceeding 1Gbps (125MBps) for extended periods of time? And are you willing to pay bonus price for network gear (moving traffic faster than Gbps over copper consumes a lot of energy, causing excesive heating etc.)? If you want to transfer data over connections longer than a few metres, then bulky UTP Cat7 cables add to the problem.

All in all going for 10Gbps fibre connections makes more sense, but I guess there's "market drive" to keep using copper cables because users are familiar with them and for short runs it is possible to somehow get going by reusing existing Cat5e UTP cables. OTOH SFP+ ports support modules downward compatible with slower speeds (5Gbps and 2.5Gbps included). Only drawback of using SFP+ modules compared to "native" RJ45 ports is lack of PoE.
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:56 pm

how often do we really see need for 2.5Gbps+ connections?

Among this crowd? More often than in the general population, to be sure.

can your home NAS sustain transfer speeds considerably exceeding 1Gbps (125MBps) for extended periods of time?

There are some that can. There also exist 10GbE units from QNAP and Synology which I'd expect to sustain over a gigabit on certain real-world tests such as bulk media file copies. That's only 125 MB/sec, which we got past for single-disk performance long ago. An 8-wide RAID of four striped mirrors should be able to fill a 10G pipe all by itself with modern disks.

And we aren't even talking about SSD NASes yet.

moving traffic faster than Gbps over copper consumes a lot of energy, causing excesive heating etc.

The proper comparison isn't to 1G, it's to external Thunderbolt enclosures, which also take energy and throw off heat. Nothing's free.

If you want to transfer data over connections longer than a few metres, then bulky UTP Cat7 cables add to the problem.

The TrueNAS Mini X+ in the first link offers SFP+ as an option. It was tested in that configuration, not with the 10GbE ports you get on the base model.

SFP+ ports support modules downward compatible with slower speeds (5Gbps and 2.5Gbps included).

2.5 and 5 Gbit/sec Ethernet is also a thing, largely invented so people could keep using existing Cat-5/e cabling. This so-called NBASE-T is appearing more often now as several of Intel's higher-end chipsets support it.

Only drawback of using SFP+ modules compared to "native" RJ45 ports is lack of PoE.

I feel more comfortable running Cat-6 across the floor where people can step on it than I do with fiber. :)
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:31 pm

Connecting a NAS with 10G or higher of course make sense.

But seriously, how many regular wireless users does high-bandwidth sustained transfers? If you are editing 4K videos all day long you probably will connect yourself with 10G together with the NAS.

Why doesn't Cisco offer any of these combinations if there was a critical demand for it?
 
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Re: SFP+ on the small devices

Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:43 pm

Why do you keep coming back to wireless? I, the topic author, do nothing with MikroTik's wireless equipment. All of my wireless stuff is from other vendors. My MikroTiks are 100% wired.

Furthermore, I try to avoid use of wireless whenever possible. It's convenient, but it also brings along a pile of problems. I therefore use wireless only when it's the best of a set of poor options.

Surely you aren't suggesting that I'm a one-off weirdo in having such a configuration?

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