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tangent
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Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:36 pm

I'd like to advocate for having more products in MikroTik's product line use internal power supplies rather than wall warts.

I'm new to MikroTik equipment, so perhaps this worry doesn't apply, but I've had far more wall warts die on me than internal PSUs. I know enough about power supplies to guess that there are two causes for this:

  • wall warts are super-competitive on price, leading the manufacturers to cut corners that I would expect your Latvian EEs to avoid
  • they have to fit in a space that doesn't permit proper spacing out of heat-generating components; putting power semiconductors right next to electrolytic capacitors is a great way to produce something that'll die in 1-5 years

I'll gladly pay extra for a half-width 1U metal case over a small plastic case so you can fit in an IEC 320 inlet and an internal power supply. I don't care which connector type you use — clover leaf (C6), figure 8 (C8), good old C14 — but given two switches with the same specs that meet my criteria, the one with an IEC inlet is the one I'll buy, within a reasonable cost margin.

It'd be different if wall warts lasted forever and there was broad compatibility among devices using them so we could get to a world where we wouldn't have all these wall warts to keep throwing away, but we haven't gotten to any kind of a universal DC standard yet, so I'll put more trust in a designed-in PSU than whatever's cheapest from China at the moment.
 
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:03 pm

Yes, wall warts suck. But we run many of our devices on 24 or 48 volts DC, so please don't remove that option.

Mikrotik basiclly have two DC standards +11-30V and +18-57V
 
marekm
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:30 am

Mikrotik basiclly have two DC standards +11-30V and +18-57V
Some devices (still too few) also accept -48V DC (positive ground, telecom power).
It would be nice if the dual power supplies in higher-end devices were hot-swappable and offered in 230V AC as well as -48V DC options.
Or one ultra-wide-input design that accepts 85-265V AC as well as down to 44V DC (even if at reduced power) - may not be that hard to do with a boost PFC input stage.
 
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pcunite
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:53 am

Have not used it personally, but the Middle Atlantic PD-DC-125R, seems like it would help in a rack with a lot of such equipment. The nice thing about MikroTik, most units can be PoE powered over ether1. So, you can clean up power to them using a single PoE switch.
 
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vecernik87
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:51 am

"wall warts" may fail, but anyone can replace them and the failure is easy to diagnose. When an internal power supply fails, it often means people will throw the whole device. Replacement PSU is often non-existent and even if it existed, not everyone will be able to open the device and replace some PCBs inside.

ps: I personally fixed over 10 screens in past few years, after internal power supplies failed due to dried out capacitors. (not everyone is skilled to do this). However, over the same period, I haven't seen a single external PSU died on any of our screens. And if it did, Anyone could grab spare 19V PSU and off we go - no need for highly skilled labour.
 
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:15 am

"wall warts" may fail, but anyone can replace them and the failure is easy to diagnose. When an internal power supply fails, it often means people will throw the whole device. Replacement PSU is often non-existent and even if it existed, not everyone will be able to open the device and replace some PCBs inside.

ps: I personally fixed over 10 screens in past few years, after internal power supplies failed due to dried out capacitors. (not everyone is skilled to do this). However, over the same period, I haven't seen a single external PSU died on any of our screens. And if it did, Anyone could grab spare 19V PSU and off we go - no need for highly skilled labour.
I think the annoying thing about wall warts is how to properly rack them.
If there was a way to tie the wall wart to the back or side of the Mikrotik device, that would be enough for most of us.

Thoughts ?
 
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pcunite
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:30 am

I think the annoying thing about wall warts is how to properly rack them. If there was a way to tie the wall wart to the back or side of the MikroTik device, that would be enough for most of us.

Yep. Would like to have a standard (another one?) so as to make them easy to manage and replace.
 
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normis
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:30 am


It would be nice if the dual power supplies in higher-end devices were hot-swappable and offered in 230V AC as well as -48V DC options.
We have this in the higher end devices https://mikrotik.com/product/hot_swap__ ... or_ccr1072
More such devices coming in the future.
 
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normis
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:30 am

If you have so many devices, you need to use Racks, why not power them by PoE ?
 
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Re: Internal power supplies instead of wall warts

Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:02 pm

I think the annoying thing about wall warts is how to properly rack them.
If there was a way to tie the wall wart to the back or side of the Mikrotik device, that would be enough for most of us.

Thoughts ?
In some of the -RM models of devices that also exist as a -IN model, the -RM model actually has a lot of empty space and a cutout ready for a IEC C14 receptacle.
You can fit the wall wart or a small SMPS board inside the device and connect it using C13 standard cables.

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