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SweetSunday
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"joint timout" problem

Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:29 am

Help with any pointers towards the trouble underlying the following wireless debug log would be appreciated.

The router is an RB532A running RouterOS 2.9.46. The WLAN card is an Atheros AR5212 In sation mode. It is a point-to-point backbone link with the AP identified in the connect list and this client identified in the AP's access list with no default authentication.

The AP has the SSID 'Clova' on 2452 and is picked up by the STA scan three times yet the debug log reports "no network that satisfies connect-list" on the first two occasions.

During the connection loss beginning 20:50:27 I ran a scan on this interface and it picked up the AP with a signal strength of -66dB.

I'm puzzled by the "failed to join recently" report, which is not mentioned in the Wiki entry on wireless debug codes. Ditto "join timeout".

When I check the status of this link when it's up I invariably get a Tx/Rx of around -66, a noise floor of -96dB and a CCQ of 100%, which suggests that signal strength isn't the problem.

The security profile at both ends is WPA2-PSK with dynamic keys. Both Unicast and Group Cyphers aes ccm are ticked. The "join timeout" reports would suggest a problem here, but this is outside my understanding.

Any lines of enquiry to be pursued would be appreciated.



20:27:54 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
20:27:54 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
20:27:54 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default choose with strongest signal
20:27:54 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
20:27:54 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
20:27:55 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
20:27:57 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
20:27:57 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Totaranui caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:27:57 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jenny caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:27:57 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:64: on 2412 SSID Manaroa caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:27:57 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2452 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:27:57 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Office caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:27:57 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
20:27:57 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
20:27:57 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default choose with strongest signal
20:27:57 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
20:27:57 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
20:27:58 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
20:28:00 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
20:28:00 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Totaranui caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:00 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jenny caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:00 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:64: on 2412 SSID Manaroa caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:00 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2452 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:00 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Office caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:00 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
20:28:00 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
20:28:00 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default choose with strongest signal
20:28:00 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
20:28:00 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
20:28:01 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
20:28:03 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
20:28:03 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Totaranui caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:03 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jenny caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:03 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:64: on 2412 SSID Manaroa caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:03 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2452 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:03 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Office caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
20:28:03 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
20:28:03 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2452
20:28:03 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2452,
SSID Clova

20:46:34 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: lost connection, got deauth:
authentication not valid (2)
20:46:36 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2452,
SSID Clova

20:49:15 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: lost connection, no beacons
20:49:17 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2452,
SSID Clova


20:50:27 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: lost connection, no beacons
20:50:29 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:50:41 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:50:53 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:51:05 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:51:17 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:51:29 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:51:41 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:51:53 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:52:20 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:52:44 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:52:56 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:53:08 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:53:20 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:53:24 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:53:36 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
20:53:48 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2452,
SSID Clova
 
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jwcn
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:19 am

running RouterOS 2.9.46
Upgrade to at least 2.9.51
 
SweetSunday
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:01 am

No good. Upgraded both ends of the link to 2.9.51 last night but saw this again this morning:

11:29:15 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: lost connection, no beacons
11:29:17 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2452,
SSID Clova
11:30:26 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: lost connection, no beacons
11:30:28 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
11:30:41 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
11:30:53 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
11:31:04 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2452,
SSID Clova

The "wireless debug log explained" says:

"join timeout" - happens on Station, failed to synchronize to AP (receive first beacon frame). Most likely weak signal, remote turned off, strong interference, some other RF related issue that makes communication impossible.

I don't think weak signal is the problem as on other occasions during such disconnects I've run a scan and have picked up the AP at its usual strength of around -66 dB and in the example above the station was picking up the AP on its scans yet not connecting.

Any other ideas?
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:25 am

Have you tried changing frequencies?
 
SweetSunday
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:16 am

I'll give it a try and let you know. Thanks.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:21 am

Frequency change didn't help. Log of a 12s outage last night pasted below.

I'm puzzled by the comment "no network that satisfies connect-list, by default do not connect". Yes, default authentication is turned off but the AP is correctly listed in the station's connect-list. The AP appears on all the five scans carried out (SSID Clova) during the outage and on the first occasion is even selected for connection, which fails for the "joint timeout" reason.

On the following 3 scans the AP appears but the comment "failed to join recently" is attached to it. Then on the fifth scan it is selected and sucessfully connected to, and the connection has been fine for the ensuing nine hours.

The AP appears on the scans so it is clearly transmitting and is at around -66dB usually so the link is hardly borderline, and as the AP is on a very lonely 500m high hilltop it's hard to think the problem is one of interference. Moreover another router also working on 2.4Ghz (2442 and 2412) on the same mast with the same power supply isn't affected.


What would be the actual cause of "failed to join recently" and "join timeout", reports?


00:50:28 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Totaranui caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:28 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jenny caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:28 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Office caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:28 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:28 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
00:50:28 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2472
00:50:28 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
00:50:28 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
00:50:28 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
00:50:28 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default do not connect
00:50:28 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
00:50:28 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
00:50:29 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
00:50:31 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
00:50:31 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:64: on 2412 SSID Manaroa caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:31 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Totaranui caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:31 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jenny caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:31 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Office caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:31 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:31 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
00:50:31 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
00:50:31 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default do not connect
00:50:31 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
00:50:31 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
00:50:32 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
00:50:34 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
00:50:34 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:64: on 2412 SSID Manaroa caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:34 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Totaranui caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:34 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jenny caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:34 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Office caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:34 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:34 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
00:50:34 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
00:50:34 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default do not connect
00:50:34 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
00:50:34 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
00:50:35 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
00:50:37 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
00:50:37 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:64: on 2412 SSID Manaroa caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:37 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Totaranui caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:37 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jenny caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:37 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Office caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:37 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:37 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
00:50:37 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
00:50:37 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default do not connect
00:50:37 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
00:50:37 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
00:50:38 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
00:50:40 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
00:50:40 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:64: on 2412 SSID Manaroa caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:40 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Totaranui caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:40 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jenny caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:40 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Office caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:40 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
00:50:40 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
00:50:40 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2472
00:50:40 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2472,
SSID Clova
 
SweetSunday
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Thu May 01, 2008 2:29 am

Still happening every now and then.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Fri May 02, 2008 12:10 pm

I'll bet it's related to the wireless module, and not software. We've had a number of R52H cards and NMP-8602 cards that have flaked out on us and have exhibited similar behaviour. The station trying (and failing) to join may not be transmitting a clean, strong signal.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Fri May 02, 2008 12:29 pm

It's very intermittent, lasts only a couple of seconds and in between the signal is as good as you could want.

The attached file is a screen-shot pasted to Word with the log of an outage tonight and an interface monitor of only a minute or so later - RX/TX -63/-65, signal to noise 36dB, tx/rx ccq 100%/95%.

The screen shot is of the station end, which is picking up the AP (Clova) in the scans but saying there's no station that satisfies the connect list. The connect list says accept anything down to -120dB, at which level there'd be nothing on the scan, surely.

I agree a card swap seems indicated, even if just as a diagnostic. They've both been going 18months now with very little down-time. Any idea which end of the link might be the problem one?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue May 06, 2008 2:45 pm

I have a site that is doing this every 7 minutes. I think that the time is entirely too consistant to be a hardware problem. It has to be a setting in the software. Anyway, we are changing the hardware today, RB532 x 2 with a single RB333 running ROS3.7. All new R52H cards and pigtails. Everything will be brand new except for the POE run.

Anyone have anything concrete that may explain this?
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Thu May 08, 2008 12:26 am

We've had 5" of rain in the last week which has made it impossible for me to get up the mountain to the AP and change the card, and it's still happening.

During a 2-minute outage this morning while the station was "searching for network" I ran a scan from it and the AP was coming in as clear as a bell at -65dB. Yet even after stopping the scan it took about 40 seconds for the station to reconnect to the AP.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Mon May 26, 2008 7:22 pm

I'm having the same problem! Was the cause found?
Christapher James Hasher
Waseca Wireless

Don't blame me, I didn't drink the cool-aide!
 
diaan1
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Mon May 26, 2008 7:48 pm

"joint timout" happens when you break the "puff puff pass" rule.


Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Mon May 26, 2008 8:37 pm

I had similar problem recently.
Stupid thing helps me, :)
Just try to change port that you attached antena to MiniPCI card.
I swiched from main to aux and, get much metter signal, error had never repeat again.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Mon May 26, 2008 11:06 pm

I'll have to give that a try!

Did you change setting in AP from antenna A to B also?
Christapher James Hasher
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SweetSunday
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue May 27, 2008 12:27 am

I'll have to give that a try!

Did you change setting in AP from antenna A to B also?
Do I detect a hint of tongue-in-cheek here?

No, it's still happening - actually changing the card in the particular location is such a major operation that at present the problem doesn't justify it.

Moreover if is a card problem, at which end is it?

Even moreover, during these outages the both ends are still transmitting - ie here's an extract from a log this am:

03:15:07 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
03:15:07 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2472
03:15:07 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2472,
SSID Clova
03:15:22 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: lost connection, no beacons
03:15:22 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
03:15:24 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Txxxxx caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
03:15:24 wireless,debug 02:80:48:3D:5A:6A: on 2412 SSID Jxxxxxx caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
03:15:24 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:64: on 2412 SSID Mxxxxx caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
03:15:24 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x431
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
03:15:24 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:5A: on 2437 SSID Oxxx caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2472
03:15:24 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default do not connect
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
03:15:25 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning


At 03:15:07 a connection is re-established but 8 seconds later it goes down again. The station runs a scan, the AP is there (SSID Clova), the station correctly id's it to connect to but fails to do so: ie

03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2472
03:15:24 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join timeout
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
03:15:24 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default do not connect

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

SSID Clova is correctly identified in the connect list, so what does the "no network that satisfies the connect-list' imply?

What does the "failed to join recently" mean? Failed to join what? What does "joint timeout" say about what is going on?
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue May 27, 2008 3:34 pm

Change the LMR

T//
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue May 27, 2008 6:42 pm

SweetSunday

I don’t believe that it is an LMR issue at this point. I have my wireless network setup in a star configuration with all my towers receiving their signal from a main tower in the center of my community. When I found the signal wasn’t good enough from three of my towers I rerouted them to go threw another tower that I have about six blocks away from my main tower. This tower is much taller and the towers that were having issues receive a much stronger signal going off my taller tower. Once I switched them I started to see the same thing you’re seeing on all three of those towers! My best guess is that the problem is with the card at that tower that my other three are attached to. This taller tower has an SR2 and the three other towers that get there signal from it are using a combination of r52H’s and a SR2 or XR2. The funny thing is that I have a client also receiving his signal from that taller tower that is using a 133c with an SR2 that isn’t having that problem. I have looked threw his logs and don’t see it happening to him. I will be looking into this much further and will update you on what I find; hopefully we both will have a resolution to this issue soon!
Christapher James Hasher
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue May 27, 2008 7:05 pm

SweetSunday

"no network that satisfies the connect-list' imply?
There seem to be a list that one can setup where you can say “connect to “A” and if you find another place “B” or “C” that has a stronger signal connected to the one that has the strongest signal. If one of them go’s down, scan again starting with “A”

"failed to join recently" mean?
My guess is that it tried but failed to connect to the AP that you have the SSID set to (Clova)

Failed to join what?
My guess is other places to connect to that would be in the list

What does "joint timeout" say about what is going on?
My guess is that there is a time limit for its search for other places to connect to.

Here’s the clincher if your not using that list “like me” than it shouldn’t start the scan. It should only connect to the SSID that you have specified. And if the tower that has the correct SSID go's down than the tower that it gets its signal from should only search for a signal that matches the SSID you have specified.

It seems that there is a glitch some ware. I bet its in the software but I could be wrong! I will try reinstalling the ROS and see what happens.
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue May 27, 2008 7:23 pm

I had said before that "The funny thing is that I have a client also receiving his signal from that taller tower that is using a 133c with an SR2 that isn’t having that problem. I have looked threw his logs and don’t see it happening to him."

I checked and saw that I didn’t add wireless debug to his list to log. I have since added it and will watch to see if it happing to him as well. This should help to narrow down the issue!
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue May 27, 2008 10:13 pm

SweetSunday

I found something!

I will bet you that the AP that this is happening to has Wireless/Debug set in logging and it is connected to a Virtual AP “SSID Clova”

Am I right !!!!!!

If I am right maybe you can see the direction I'm going with this!
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed May 28, 2008 1:00 am

"
There seem to be a list that one can setup where you can say “connect to “A” and if you find another place “B” or “C” that has a stronger signal connected to the one that has the strongest signal. If one of them go’s down, scan again starting with “A”
The station has only one entry on its connect list and 'default authentication' is turned off, which I believe means it won't connect to any other AP even if it could.
"failed to join recently" mean?
My guess is that it tried but failed to connect to the AP that you have the SSID set to (Clova)

Failed to join what?
My guess is other places to connect to that would be in the list
There's only the one entry on the list, viz:

[admin@Mt-Kiwi] > interface wireless connect-list print
Flags: X - disabled
0 interface=wlan1 connect=yes mac-address=00:80:48:3D:5A:60 ssid="Clova"
min-signal-strength=-120 area-prefix="" security-profile=MtKiwi-WPA2
[admin@Mt-Kiwi] >
What does "joint timeout" say about what is going on?
My guess is that there is a time limit for its search for other places to connect to.
But it is picking it up in its search and even electing to connect to it, but the connection doesn't go through.
It seems that there is a glitch some ware. I bet its in the software but I could be wrong! I will try reinstalling the ROS and see what happens.
Maybe. The AP is running OS 2.9.49 but when I checked (having only just found out about this little foible) it was using firmware of 1.11 with 2.11 available. So I did a system upgrade and it appeared to take effect without a reboot(?) Will see if this has an effect.

Reinstalling the OS is no small task given that the AP is on a mountain-top tower and this board also handles the backhaul for the whole network.
I will bet you that the AP that this is happening to has Wireless/Debug set in logging and it is connected to a Virtual AP “SSID Clova”
wireless/debug is set, yes, as I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. There are no VAPs but the interface, wlan1, has two VLANs (one for 'Internet' traffic and one for internal traffic) with matching VLANs at the AP end but it is the WLAN that has the SSID Clova, and this is a piont-to-point link.
If I am right maybe you can see the direction I'm going with this!
Yes of course but, ah, for the benefit of anyone following this thread who can't, would you mind enlarging on the matter?
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed May 28, 2008 2:28 am

“default authentication' is turned off, which I believe means it won't connect to any other AP even if it could.”

I don’t think default authentication has anything to do with it connecting to any other AP. I believe it is just a way of saying let everyone connect, or only let those who are in the access list connect.

There's only the one entry on the list, viz:

I don’t believe that the access list has anything to do with what’s going on.

But it is picking it up in its search and even electing to connect to it, but the connection doesn't go through.

I believe that the connection is going threw, once the scan is completed.

Maybe. The AP is running OS 2.9.49 but when I checked (having only just found out about this little foible) it was using firmware of 1.11 with 2.11 available. So I did a system upgrade and it appeared to take effect without a reboot(?) Will see if this has an effect.

All my mikroTik equipment “133c’s used for CPE’s and 532a’s as AP’s” has the latest ROS 2.9.51, and its happening to me.

wireless/debug is set, yes, as I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. There are no VAPs but the interface, wlan1, has two VLANs (one for 'Internet' traffic and one for internal traffic) with matching VLANs at the AP end but it is the WLAN that has the SSID Clova, and this is a piont-to-point link.

Is the interface with SSID Clova a Virtual AP.

Yes of course but, ah, for the benefit of anyone following this thread who can't, would you mind enlarging on the matter?

The one constant that I have found is that it is only happening to me when one of my AP’s or CPE’s are connected “Associated” to another AP that is set as a Virtual AP.

My other towers “AP’s” and customer’s “CPE’s” don’t have an issue and all of them are not connected to a Virtual AP.

If you notice when you open Interface/Wlan1/Wireless, you will see a box called “Scan List” which is more than likely unchecked, now if you look at one of your Virtual AP’s you will see that its not there.

I’m just guessing but I’d say that if it were to have a “Scan List” that you could see that it would have a check mark in it.

It doesn’t matter if I’m using a SR2, XR2, R52H, Its still happening! But only to the MikroTik gear connecting to a Virtual AP.
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed May 28, 2008 2:44 am

Sorry, just re-read post, if you don’t have any V-AP's or V-Wlan's then I'm not sure what could be going on with your network. I just hope that my observations help. They probably don’t though!
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed May 28, 2008 6:07 am

Christapher James Hasher
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed May 28, 2008 6:30 am

Sorry, just re-read post, if you don’t have any V-AP's or V-Wlan's then I'm not sure what could be going on with your network. I just hope that my observations help. They probably don’t though!
No VAPs, but two VLANs, viz:

[admin@Mt-Kiwi] interface> vlan print
Flags: X - disabled, R - running
# NAME MTU ARP VLAN-ID INTERFACE
0 R ;;; Local traffic
vlan3 1500 enabled 3 wlan1
1 R ;;; Internet traffic
vlan103 1500 enabled 103 wlan1
[admin@Mt-Kiwi] interface>

Both are running on WLAN1 and so both have the SSID 'Clova', viz;

[admin@Mt-Kiwi] > interface wireless
[admin@Mt-Kiwi] interface wireless> print
Flags: X - disabled, R - running
0 R ;;; Client to saddle network
name="wlan1" mtu=1500 mac-address=00:80:48:3D:5A:40 arp=enabled
disable-running-check=no interface-type=Atheros AR5212
radio-name="Mt. Kiwi A" mode=station ssid="Clova" area=""
frequency-mode=manual-txpower country=new zealand antenna-gain=12
frequency=2472 band=2.4ghz-onlyg scan-list=default rate-set=default
supported-rates-b=1Mbps,2Mbps,5.5Mbps,11Mbps
supported-rates-a/g=6Mbps,9Mbps,12Mbps,18Mbps,24Mbps,36Mbps,48Mbps,
54Mbps
basic-rates-b=1Mbps basic-rates-a/g=6Mbps max-station-count=2007
ack-timeout=dynamic tx-power-mode=default noise-floor-threshold=default
periodic-calibration=default periodic-calibration-interval=60
burst-time=disabled dfs-mode=none antenna-mode=ant-a wds-mode=disabled
wds-default-bridge=none wds-default-cost=100 wds-cost-range=50-150
wds-ignore-ssid=no update-stats-interval=disabled
default-authentication=no default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0
default-client-tx-limit=0 proprietary-extensions=post-2.9.25
hide-ssid=no security-profile=MtKiwi-WPA2 disconnect-timeout=3s
on-fail-retry-time=100ms hw-retries=15 preamble-mode=short
compression=no allow-sharedkey=no


I still think the answer must lie in the following lines from the wireless debug log, viz:

10:44:18 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
10:44:18 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2472
10:44:19 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
10:44:19 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
10:44:19 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
10:44:19 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default do not connect
10:44:19 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network


At 10:44:18 the station has detected and correctly identified the AP it is supposed to join but "fails to connect, joint timeout". At 10:44:19 it tries again but reports that the AP has "failed to join recently". Then it states there is "no network that satisfies the connect list". The only criteria on the connect list are interface, MAC address, SSID, min-signal-strength and security profile. The first four are clearly OK the scan which leaves only the security profile as a possible problem.

Could the AP be momentarily dropping its security profile, causing the station to disconnect?

The APs wireless debug log for the same timespan reads:

10:40:42 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: disconnected, reassociating
10:40:42 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 attempts to connect
10:40:42 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 in local ACL, accept
10:40:42 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: connected
10:44:30 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: disconnected, reassociating
10:44:30 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 attempts to connect
10:44:30 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 in local ACL, accept
10:44:30 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: connected

??????????????????????????
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed May 28, 2008 6:47 am

Does all your MikroTik stuff have Routerboard package enabled in the packages list?

I found that my main tower didnt so I'm going to see if it makes any diffrence!
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed May 28, 2008 9:00 am

Does all your MikroTik stuff have Routerboard package enabled in the packages list?
Yes. Both ends are 532s. The AP is running OS 2.9.49. Firmware is 2.11. The station is running OS 2.9.51, Firmware 2.12.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Fri May 30, 2008 12:49 am

cmon69, I did of course have two VAPs on this link, one for each VLAN.

Took them off last night and now have a simple station to ap-bridge link over a wlan but the problem continues, with three minute outages.

Had one this morning with station interface reporting 'searching for network'. Did a scan while it was and it was picking up the AP beacons at -65d, yet when it switched the scan off it still took over a minute to reconnect.

I don't know.

Am going to return the security profiles to default and run the link unencrypted to see if that makes a difference.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Fri May 30, 2008 1:36 am

I don’t think I had this problem until I started using Hide SSID and VAP!
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Fri May 30, 2008 11:55 am

I don’t think I had this problem until I started using Hide SSID and VAP!
Well it's still happening even though I turned off encryption AND changed from short to long premable, there's no VAP and I haven't hidden the SSID.

WHAT can be causing the station to report:

19:39:46 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
19:39:46 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
19:39:46 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
19:39:46 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default do not connect
19:39:46 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network


When the connect list is:

Flags: X - disabled
0 interface=wlan1 connect=yes mac-address=00:80:48:3D:5A:60 ssid="Clova"
min-signal-strength=-120 area-prefix="" security-profile=default


and the designated AP is coming in loud and clear, at -64dB??????

What does "failed to join recently" mean in this context?????

The equivalent log at the AP is:

19:36:11 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: disconnected, reassociating
19:36:11 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 attempts to connect
19:36:11 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 in local ACL, accept
19:36:11 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: connected
19:36:18 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: disconnected, reassociating
19:36:18 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 attempts to connect
19:36:18 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 in local ACL, accept
19:36:18 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: connected
19:40:05 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: disconnected, reassociating
19:40:05 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 attempts to connect
19:40:05 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:40 in local ACL, accept
19:40:05 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:40@wlan1: connected


System time on both boards is synchronised via ntp.

Net step will be to swap out the card at the station, as it's more accessible, unless someone can throw some light on this.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Fri May 30, 2008 4:27 pm

If it’s still happening than it must come down to either a card, Pigtail, Cable, or Antenna Issue!
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Fri May 30, 2008 11:59 pm

If it’s still happening than it must come down to either a card, Pigtail, Cable, or Antenna Issue!
Except that while it's happening the station appears to be picking up the AP's beacons as strongly as ever. But for some reason it's not associating it with the AP specified in the Connect list.

I'm switching 'default connection' back on at the AP, just to see what happens.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Sat May 31, 2008 4:32 pm

Like I said...

Change the LMR....

T
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Sat May 31, 2008 5:56 pm

Tanker

You may be right but I find it hard to believe in my case because I have several towers doing this and I take great care in weather proofing my cables.
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:11 am

Like I said...

Change the LMR....

T
You mean that black, snakey thing I had to take the steak-tenderiser to before it would bend enough to reach the antenna, and I had to super-glue to the radio thingy to stop it popping off?

I think mine's an LLC-400. Is that the same thing?

Well, OK I'll order another one and bendify it and hope it will fit if you think it will help!

I did spend some time yesterday just watching the status page (well, it's more entertaining than cricket) and noticed that the 'resting' Rx CCQ was up in the 90s% but when someone started using the connection it dropped dramatically for a moment, once as low as 22%, so it may be a physical connection issue.

Or my bloody Gremlin's out again....
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:59 pm

:shock:
Steak Tenderiser???????

err.... Here I was thinking that we were working with "sensitive" equipment ....????? - which INCLUDES the RF cable..!!!!

99% of ALL (normal) problems WILL be cable related - it's the "Sod's Law of Wireless"
Treat your Rf cable badly (and this includes UfL's) it WILL jump up and bite you - tell them I said so....

And ---- err... watching cricket is waaaay better than watching paint dry..!!!

T
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:52 am

Order Heliax cable. Its far more flexible and less loss. LMR cable is crap. I avoid it except for client installations.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:14 am

Steak Tenderiser???????
Not really.
And ---- err... watching cricket is waaaay better than watching paint dry..!!!
Paint doesn't suddenly break the silence by yelling "Owzat" every couple of hours, and wake you up!

Below is the log of a 12-second outage today - I've restricted the scan list just to the AP. The station runs a scan five times in that 12 seconds and every time it picks up the AP but finds an excuse not to connect to it. I don't know what the hex codes mean but if it was a physical connection problem surely there'd be nothing there at all.

11:48:00 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: lost connection, no beacons
11:48:00 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
11:48:00 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
11:48:00 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
11:48:00 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
11:48:00 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2472
11:48:01 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1: failed to connect, join
timeout
11:48:01 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
11:48:01 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
11:48:01 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default choose with strongest signal
11:48:01 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
11:48:01 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
11:48:03 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
11:48:03 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
11:48:03 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
11:48:03 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
11:48:03 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
11:48:03 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default choose with strongest signal
11:48:03 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
11:48:03 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
11:48:06 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
11:48:06 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
11:48:06 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
11:48:06 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
11:48:06 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
11:48:06 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default choose with strongest signal
11:48:06 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
11:48:06 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
11:48:09 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
11:48:09 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
11:48:09 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
11:48:09 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
11:48:09 wireless,debug wlan1: 00:80:48:3D:5A:60 failed to join recently
11:48:09 wireless,debug wlan1: no network that satisfies connect-list, by
default choose with strongest signal
11:48:09 wireless,debug wlan1: failed to select network
11:48:09 wireless,debug wlan1: delaying scanning
11:48:12 wireless,debug wlan1: STA starts scanning
11:48:12 wireless,debug wlan1: STA scan over, results:
11:48:12 wireless,debug 00:80:48:3D:5A:60: on 2472 SSID Clova caps 0x421
rates 0xff0f basic 0x100 MT: yes
11:48:12 wireless,debug wlan1: must select network
11:48:12 wireless,debug wlan1: selected 00:80:48:3D:5A:60, SSID Clova on 2472
11:48:12 wireless,info 00:80:48:3D:5A:60@wlan1 established connection on 2472,
SSID Clova
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:41 am

Just had two two-minute+ outages in an hour. During the second I ran 'scan' twice on the station's interface and the AP was registering at -66dB.

It would be really, really nice if a Miktrotik tech would tell me what 'failed to join recently' actually means, and why an AP that meets all the requirements of a connect list could still be rejected.
 
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:10 pm

Here's me....

I'd be SO pissed of by this time - but that's just me...

I would also - RESET - EVERYTHING...!!!!

Take out the Connect List stuff...
Clear out the Access List on the AP

- switch ON Default Authenticate
- switch ON Default Forward
- unhide the SSID (if it is hidden)

Enter the SSID into the CPE as well as the correct frequency
When it appears on the Registration List - copy to the Access list and switch off the Default Authenticate and Forwarding - you choose if you want the SSID on or not...

Let's see what happens..

T
 
SweetSunday
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:40 pm

I'd be SO pissed of by this time - but that's just me...
No, it's me too.
I would also - RESET - EVERYTHING...!!!!
Yeah, but it can go hours and hours and hours without missing a beat, which suggest either a hardware problem or something sporadic interfering. We went for a couple of years enduring similar outages on our 'phone system, which was radio-based, until it was eventually traced to interference from stray transmissions by police-vehicle radios in a town 20-miles away.

I'm going to change the card tomorrow out of desperation. I did open up the box at the weekend to check the system and noticed that the pigtail had pulled its U.fl connector around on the socket until it must have been within an angstrom if not touching the card's heat sink. I sorted that out and went 22 hours without a problem, so thought I'd solved it but it's back as bad as ever. Might be worth a closer look at that connector tho'.

Still, I'd like to know what that wireless debug report actually means. After all, what's the point of having a wireless debug log if you can't make head nor tail of what it's trying to tell you?

And to be honest I'm chary of interfering with the AP's settings as getting up to it to reset if I accidentally lock myself out of it is a half-day exercise.
 
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jwcn
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:56 am

bump. I want to review this again so bumping it. Head hurts too much right now.
 
SweetSunday
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Re: "joint timout" problem - solved?

Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:44 am

Well, finger's crossed and inviting disaster, I might just have solved the problem.

It hasn't occurred now for three days, according to the log. Not since I did two things:-

1. Switched on Nstream with polling, and
2. Switched from short to long preamble.

Whether it is truly solved only time will tell, and if it is which of those two changes to the configuration did it, and why, I've no idea.

I'll watch the situation.
 
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cmon69
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:07 pm

SweetSunday,

Did you get it to stop?
Christapher James Hasher
Waseca Wireless

Don't blame me, I didn't drink the cool-aide!
 
SweetSunday
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Re: "joint timout" problem

Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:56 am

According to the log it's stopped - there hasn't been an outage since June 14th when I instituted the change to long preamble and switched in Nstream with polling.

However just to confuse matters I did have an SR5 card fail on a different link - it just went down with no warning and didn't come back up, but the link was fine when I replaced the card the following morning.

So I think it was undoubtedly a failed card that had ceased transmissions, but interestingly in a scan it was still receiving beacons from the AP at the other end and the wireless log was reporting exactly the same 'failed to join" and "joint timeout" messages that I reported above.

This suggests to me (as I have to guess in the face of the continuing silence from MT"s contributors to this forum re this thread) that the problem in both cases was that the card stopped transmitting - intermittently in the one case and permanently in the other - and the interface wireless log was telling me that the AP at the other end (which the failed card was still hearing) was not acknowledging it - as it wasn't hearing the station.

However why the intermittent transmission failures of the card that triggered this thread should be 'cured' by one of those two configuration changes is not obvious to me, if in fact it was. But I'm sure you'll understand why I'd rather not experiment to find out. As it seems to be running without problem now I'll leave it that way.

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