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jober
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RB433

Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:42 am

The RB333 is now EOL, it's replacement is the RB433.
It look like the 433 is the same layout as the 333.
 
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Re: RB433

Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:48 am

Surely not, the RB333 has only been out a few months!
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jober
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Re: RB433

Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:43 am

They say the RB433 is just as fast for a lot less money so why have the RB333 if it's not really any faster.
 
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Re: RB433

Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:23 am

It looks like the RB333 is EOL. It has been removed from the Mikrotik price list. I saw no announcement. Is RouterBOARD a business or a hobby? The product page still shows the EOL equipment as "new". None of the new equipment is listed. ??

I just bought a RB333 thinking it was "new equipment". Stupid me. :(
 
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normis
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Re: RB433

Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 pm

resellers have all this information. mikrotik is a manufacturer, not a store. your reseller should inform you about new and upcoming products.
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Re: RB433

Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:31 pm

My apology for sounding insulting, normis. It is just some of this is unnerving. This is my business, and I have decided to make MikroTik part of it. I spent thousands on RouterBOARD products in the last few months and now all are EOL.

I meant nothing towards the MikroTik Team. The OS is splendid, or I would not have stayed around this long. I am now aware this is a OS technical forum. I will try to limit my posts and responses to that.

I was confused by the topic "RouterOS on RouterBOARD". My bad. :oops:
 
jober
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Re: RB433

Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:46 pm

RouterOS and RouterBoard are both Mikrotik. :?
I don't see what the problem is. The 433 is just as fast but at a lower price. What's to not like?
The only problem I have is that they didn't make it smaller so we could use the Pacwireless DCE enclosure and the mpci slots are to close to fit 3 XR cards in them.
 
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Re: RB433

Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:48 pm

Does Anyone know if the 433 will monitor it's voltage like the rb333? This saves us hundreds of dollars on off grid installations...
 
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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:47 am

One of the previous posts raised a question... I was sort of imagining the RB433 being about the same size at the 133. Is it in fact the same size as the 333? I hope its not laid out like the 333, its my least favorite so far of all the designs.

Also a quick question if I can slide it in here... With only one wireless interface and one ethernet interface what was the motivating reason to create the 411a with more memory. I have 411 running hotspot / dhcp etc and there is memory to spare. I'm just curious - I do like it because it comes with l4 license so it saves money than upgrading 411 any way.

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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:56 am

Unfortunately the RB433 is the exact same layout as the RB333.. Same Mini-PCI problem with XR cards. Won't fit in ARC IES enclosure's at all, or PAC DCE-7x6x2's with more than 2 cards.. Really disappointing since the RB411 was so small.. I would really love to see a RB412 or RB413 with the same form factor as the RB133.. Most of my customers don't use the extra ethernets and only need the extra minipci slots..

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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:33 am

Yeah, one ethernet and two minipci would handle most of what I need.

Maybe the key is to get pac wireless to make a DCE 10x6x2 :)
 
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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:36 am

Maybe the key is to get pac wireless to make a DCE 10x6x2 :)
I like that idea. It sure would be handy for a lot more than just having a better sized board, although I agree the 333 design/size was retarded to begin with and it is sad to see them keep it for the 433.
 
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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:48 am

RouterBoard 433 is faster then RouterBoard 333?

RB333 is a good product, why You EOL it?
 
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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:00 am

it's about the same performance, but the price is 2x less
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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:01 am

Normis,
Again I ask does the 433 have the voltage available like the 333?

Thank you
 
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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:04 pm

current revision doesn't, but we will include it in the next hardware revision
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Re: RB433

Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:25 pm

I think it is good for the users that MT came up with a new product with similar performance for half the price. The only concern I have for my RB333's is that they will no longer be supported in future version of RoS. And even if it is, my guess is that bug-fixing for the 333's will be of low priority to the MT team.
 
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Re: RB433

Thu May 01, 2008 2:51 pm

I think the RB433 is a great idea. Too bad you can't get one. I have three new sites I need new equipment for NOW!! Not next week. And NOW my choice is:
EOL equipment (not recommended for new installs)
or
the RB600, the new entry-level non-EOL access point.

EDIT: This would not matter much at all to me if this was a hobby. I spent half the day yesterday trying to hunt one of these down, only to find they will not be available for a "week or two". Then I spent the rest of the day "sucking up" to my new customers so they won't go with my competition from Atlanta.
Last edited by SurferTim on Thu May 01, 2008 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: RB433

Thu May 01, 2008 3:11 pm

I think it is good for the users that MT came up with a new product with similar performance for half the price. The only concern I have for my RB333's is that they will no longer be supported in future version of RoS. And even if it is, my guess is that bug-fixing for the 333's will be of low priority to the MT team.
Thats stupid what you are saying. Bug fixes are for routerOS not for Routerboards.
 
jober
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Re: RB433

Thu May 01, 2008 4:34 pm

I think it is good for the users that MT came up with a new product with similar performance for half the price. The only concern I have for my RB333's is that they will no longer be supported in future version of RoS. And even if it is, my guess is that bug-fixing for the 333's will be of low priority to the MT team.
Thats stupid what you are saying. Bug fixes are for routerOS not for Routerboards.
"That's stupid"? Read the changelogs before you post! Board specific bug fixes all over the place.
 
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Re: RB433

Thu May 01, 2008 9:13 pm

less than 5 %.since v.3.4 there was none
 
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Re: RB433

Thu May 01, 2008 9:23 pm

What about winston's DCMA-82?
411 does have a big problem with these, I'm in a bit worry, that 433 won't support these cards.

adam
 
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Re: RB433

Sat May 03, 2008 2:29 pm

I feel better now. I just put in my order for a new RB433 through my supplier. I don't know if they are in stock yet, but good to see the new product line available. :D

I can use the now-infamous excuse with my new customers:
"It is on order."

EDIT: ghmorris sums it up very well in the next post. He is more eloquent and less offensive than my post.
Last edited by SurferTim on Sat May 03, 2008 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: RB433

Sat May 03, 2008 3:08 pm

resellers have all this information. mikrotik is a manufacturer, not a store. your reseller should inform you about new and upcoming products.
Its probably worth pointing out that a reseller (actually a distributor in this case) sitting on almost 400 RB333s is not particularly motivated to tell their customers that a product is about to be EOL.

That is exactly what just happened.

We are now left with a situation where we have six 333s sitting on critical backbone connections that are effectively obsolete orphans. Same problem with 153s, by the time they were 'fixed' they were effectively obsolete.

Do you really think we would have done something that silly if MT had communicated a life cycle plan effectively to their customers?

I have sat through countless life cycle presentations from countless network manufacturers. It is a normal part of doing business and being professional rather than catering for the hobbiest.

I really think you should communicate this up the ranks Normis. Better, faster, cheaper is great and much appreciated, but not at the cost of jumping all over the place every few months.

MT hardware is now the LEAST expensive part of any deployment. Installing hardware on a 300 foot tower involves costs that are at least ten times the price of the basic hardware, and maintaining this equipment effectively over its life cycle is critically important.

So now I have to spend at least 6000 dollars getting rid of 1200 dollars of obsolete Routerboards that were only on the market for a few months.

The argument made in another thread about no 'bolt-in' replacement for 532s is also a good one. We have over 400 532s in service, many at great heights, and not having a replacement board with the same bolt pattern and general form factor is a huge pain in the backside.

Just a few carefully considered observations from one of your larger customers in Canada, hope you take them in the spirit they are offered.

George
 
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Re: RB433

Sat May 03, 2008 5:50 pm

Agreed, shifting the blame to the resellers are just plain unreasonable. Maybe MT can learn from dairy product manufacturer and put expiry date on its products.
 
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Re: RB433

Sun May 04, 2008 7:07 am

I'd Mikrotik deal this way than Ubiquiti's approach and wait customers wait months because of component shortages...
 
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Re: RB433

Tue May 06, 2008 10:02 am

normis,

the voltage monitor became essential to us. we have put up many sites with wind and solar power recently thanks to the availability of the RB333. me personally i find it a pretty bad and customer unfriendly move to EOL a product which has not a 100% equivalent or better. will there be an announcement as soon as the new hardware rev is there which has a voltage monitor ? will the voltage monitor work the same way with the same output via SNMP ? the recent hardware saga (RB600 trouble) is raising concern in our business. can someone in MT give an outlook into your plans for the future regarding hardware ?

where is the documentation for the RB433 ? what is the voltage range ? the frontpage of RB says 9-28V DC and the product page 12-28V DC. that tiny detail make a huge difference for people using wind or solar power.

regards
Jan
 
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Re: RB433

Tue May 06, 2008 1:23 pm

So now I have to spend at least 6000 dollars getting rid of 1200 dollars of obsolete Routerboards that were only on the market for a few months.
George
George, did I understand you correctly and you are going to remove all your RB333 devices?
I don't understand what's wrong with them? Just because we introduced a faster model doesn't mean the older one is no longer working or supported.

About the voltage monitor - that will be available on a routerboard that will be released very shortly (one or two weeks)
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Re: RB433

Tue May 06, 2008 2:24 pm

George, did I understand you correctly and you are going to remove all your RB333 devices?
I don't understand what's wrong with them? Just because we introduced a faster model doesn't mean the older one is no longer working or supported.
Hi Normis, yes, unfortunately we are going to change them out for probably 433s as soon as we are happy the 433s are stable.

Standardization is the problem. We would need to carry a couple of 333s in our service vehicles, just like we carry a couple of 150s, 112s, 133s, 532s etc. The links these six 333s are on are absolutely critical, in fact they have service level agreements on all of them and we have to be able to service them instantly if we have issues. Its not cost effective to take up space with 333s when we have so few in service, but we would have to because of the link locations. Catch 22!!

From our perspective, we try to pick fast hardware that is early in its release cycle, validate that it works properly, then gradually bring all critical network links up to that level. That way we have a large number of units that are easy to support. Its also worth learning all the little tricks peculiar to each type of Routerboard and everyone is happy.

Perfect example is the huge quantity of 532s we have out there. We know them well, know the strong points and weak spots and are very pleased with how they behave in our environment.

Unfortunately, that didn't work with the 333 product line as - with any new product fresh to the market - we had reboot problems with the first couple of pairs, then issues with disappearing wireless interfaces. Once they were stable, we have had excellent results and started deploying.

Then unfortunately you discontinued them, we are left with a small number of orphans that we can't support at the level we need to, and the cycle starts over again.

I understand why 333s are being replaced with 433s, but the process has been a bear for us. As of last night, one of your biggest distributors is saying:
Please note that the RB/411A, RB/433 and RB/450 are just recently announced and we do not currently have in stock. Purchase orders are into MikroTik but no eta at this time.
Once we get the 433s we have to go through the same acceptance test procedure that we did on the 333s, and that takes quite a bit of effort and a couple of months minimum.

So the bottom line is that a little better communication would help your customer base a great deal. We like MT, we buy tons of MT, and we just need to be able to plan how to spend our money more effectively so we don't get blind-sided like this again.

George
 
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Re: RB433

Tue May 06, 2008 4:34 pm

& as an example of what george was saying... Normis says in the entry above the "product to be released shortly" for the ability to look at voltage again. Ok so how about letting us know the projected specs on that product to see if it's going to fill the bill. Was there a problem with telling us the products in planning? That happened with the RB600 and the RB411 and it helped.
 
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 8:53 am

I can't talk about unreleased products.

All I can say is that it's going to be screaming fast, will fit the same cases, will have voltage monitor and a storage slot, and won't have 48V :)
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 8:59 am

Normis,

what about topic "bricked Rb433"? Why MT3.7 does NOT working on RB433. After upgrade to 3.7, routerboard does not start :(
 
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 9:55 am

Normis,

what about topic "bricked Rb433"? Why MT3.7 does NOT working on RB433. After upgrade to 3.7, routerboard does not start :(
Either install 3.6 or try the 3.8 version from here:
http://www.mikrotik.com/download/netinstall-3.8.zip
http://www.mikrotik.com/download/router ... be-3.8.npk
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 10:02 am


try to Netinstall it. Netinstall should fix the issue. I will check if this is a repeatable issue
Yes, it's repeatable!
Netinstall 3.7 does NOT work with RB433. The only solution is using Netinstall3.6 and MT3.6 packages.
 
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normis
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 10:10 am

^^^
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 10:21 am

Error 404: Not found
 
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normis
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 10:59 am

sorry, fixed.
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 12:27 pm

any news about 3.8? changelog...etc
 
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 2:35 pm

any news about 3.8? changelog...etc
Just wait for official 3.8 release.
Thanks Normis, i will test it :)
 
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Re: RB433

Wed May 07, 2008 3:51 pm


try to Netinstall it. Netinstall should fix the issue. I will check if this is a repeatable issue
Is repeatable. Funniest thing is this in the same box i found 433 with BIOS 2.12 (don't work with 3.7 even after upgrade bios) and 2.14 (work fine with 3.7 firmware)

I will wait for stable 3.8 :)
 
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Re: RB433

Fri May 09, 2008 6:07 pm

George, did I understand you correctly and you are going to remove all your RB333 devices?
I don't understand what's wrong with them? Just because we introduced a faster model doesn't mean the older one is no longer working or supported.
Hi Normis, yes, unfortunately we are going to change them out for probably 433s as soon as we are happy the 433s are stable.

---cut --
-- end cut--

I understand why 333s are being replaced with 433s, but the process has been a bear for us. As of last night, one of your biggest distributors is saying:
Please note that the RB/411A, RB/433 and RB/450 are just recently announced and we do not currently have in stock. Purchase orders are into MikroTik but no eta at this time.
Once we get the 433s we have to go through the same acceptance test procedure that we did on the 333s, and that takes quite a bit of effort and a couple of months minimum.

So the bottom line is that a little better communication would help your customer base a great deal. We like MT, we buy tons of MT, and we just need to be able to plan how to spend our money more effectively so we don't get blind-sided like this again.

George
George,

This is your second reference about your distributor not communicating the information that you need to make informed purchasing decisions. Perhaps it is time to shop for another distributor.

Tom
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Re: RB433

Sat May 10, 2008 3:08 pm

George,

This is your second reference about your distributor not communicating the information that you need to make informed purchasing decisions. Perhaps it is time to shop for another distributor.

Tom
Good idea. We are just entering peak build season and I am sitting on three urgent good-sized jobs that I need quotes for now, and then have to order the gear beginning of the week.

I see you have 411s with level 4 still, that will help us to get through. Any idea when your 450s are going to arrive?

What's your email Tom?

George
 
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Re: RB433

Sun May 11, 2008 4:40 pm

RB433 in stock. (Just cleared customs and out for delivery early Monday morning.) Both RB450 and RB433AH about 2 weeks behind.

I'll be in Chicago all next week for training, meetings and Chicago MUM. Some of our staff will be staying home to fill orders and ship product. We will also have some product with us at the show for sale and really cool T-Shirts. :)

tom [at] roc-noc.com.

Tom
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