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FIPTech
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OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:54 pm

Is there an OpenWRT image compiled for routerboards ?

I need OpenWRT for a couple of services not available within router OS. (DNS and OpenVPN UDP tunnels).


I would prefer to buy routerboard hardware.


I don't want to use Metarouter because it seems to be far from being stable according to the tests i did.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:16 pm

Visit the OpenWRT site and check what boards are supported...
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:58 pm

Thanks i didn't verify this.


RB450g is supported, but is alpha state.


I hope we'll have something in final release in a few monthes. Perhaps Mikrotik should help OpenWRT team to finish this, because OpenWRT offer a lot of stuff we cannot have on Router OS.

Router OS is a very good routing engine. And OpenWRT is the perfect complement when we need some sofware complements on embeded hardware.

Linux is even more flexible than Openwrt, but cannot install on Embedded platforms. So in the end Linux is too expensive compared to OpenWRT with Mikrotik hardware.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:03 am

you can install OpenWRT inside metarouter on top of RouterOS.
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:37 am

No, Openwrt inside Metarouter crash too easily.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:41 am

so, and you think that it will not crash easily if you hack it to run on the routerboard directly, with no support, alpha version drivers?
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:54 pm

I will not do this. Presently i will buy Openwrt supported hardware for this task.

Is it a big work to support OpenWRT on RB ? OpenWRT community members seems open to help as we can see in some Openwrt forum messages.

As you are using OpenWRT code as a basis, it seems to me that it would not be a big amount of work to get Openwrt fully working on Routerboard.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:11 pm

As you are using OpenWRT code as a basis
???
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FIPTech
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:54 pm

I've seen that Router OS could be OpenWRT based in this thread, and on Openwrt forum :

http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... rt#p216081

https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=13547&p=2

Some guys are talking about Router OS GPL violation.

http://lists.gpl-violations.org/piperma ... 01231.html


Can you clarify this ? Is router OS only Linux based, is it OpenWRT based, or is it fully proprietary ?
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:13 pm

Can you clarify this ? Is router OS only Linux based, is it OpenWRT based, or is it fully proprietary ?
RouterOS is special linux based operating system, and definietly not OpenWRT. It uses own linux kernel (with external kernel modules) and BusyBox compilation. Rest of applications is written or modified (including GPL licensed applications, ie. kvm or racoon) by MikroTik.

Information may or may not be accurate and are based only on my observations.

Kamil
hAP AC, TP-Link Archer C7 v2, RB951G, RB450G, RPI2, RPI zero
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:15 pm

That's good news.

If this is mainly proprietary code, Mikrotik should be able to implement missing IPv6 and Ethernet bridging functions (PBB) very fastly, as they were very fastly implementing all the IPv4 stuff inside Router OS.

The good news is that because some IPv6 functions code and PBB is not available as opensource, Mikrotik should be responsive on this.

In the end, i can't understand why version 5.0 is in late with IPv6 code if they master so well proprietary code.

I've found strange as well that PPP multilink is still not implemented. PPP multilink is not available in Linux world as opensource...

This is the reason why i thought that Router OS was not so "special" and proprietary.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:12 am

Mikrotik should be able to implement missing IPv6 and Ethernet bridging functions (PBB)
There are many things we are working on, they all have high priority
I've found strange as well that PPP multilink is still not implemented.
What's new in 3.10: *) added Multilink PPP to PPPoE client - just specify multiple interfaces to enable it;
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:32 am

RouterOS is special linux based operating system, and definietly not OpenWRT. It uses own linux kernel (with external kernel modules) and BusyBox compilation. Rest of applications is written or modified (including GPL licensed applications, ie. kvm or racoon) by MikroTik.
Wouldn't it be nice if MikroTik could comply with the requirements of GPLv2 license? This one in particular:
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:

a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)
There is no mention about GPL parts of the firmware in the RB-450G documentation whatsoever, and also no information about where and how to obtain the source code. And I don't mean the external kernel modules here, I just want to be able to tweak the rest of the kernel (which is GPLv2 licensed code for your information) and use it with the binary drivers from MikroTik.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:34 am

if you had actually used RouterOS before posting this nonsense, you would see that upon first launch this information is displayed, and the full RouterOS license, along with the GPL licenses are available in the router
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:43 am

if you had actually used RouterOS before posting this nonsense
I'm sorry, I haven't actually used it yet. I did not buy this hardware for using RouterOS on it. Will try to check this information and return back later. Thanks for your reply and clarification, that's what support forums exist for, and I'm glad that I joined here :) Nevertheless I still think that your pdf documentation could be improved a lot.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:47 am

we don't have PDF documentation. Why do you keep posting before looking?

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Main_Page
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:01 am

Sorry for the confusion, i was talking about MLPPP server.

MLPPP client is unusefull if there is no server side.


"What's new in 3.10: *) added Multilink PPP to PPPoE client - just specify multiple interfaces to enable it;"
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:23 pm

we don't have PDF documentation.
You can look for the PDF links here: http://www.routerboard.com/index.php?showProduct=52


And about getting the GPL sources:
To get a CD with the corresponding source code for the GPL-covered
programs in this distribution, wire transfer $45 to MikroTikls SIA,
Pernavas 46, Riga, LV-1009, Latvia. Please contact MikroTikls SIA for
our current account information and wire transfer instructions. Offer
valid for three years from the date of distribution of this software.
This CD will only include the source code of the following programs 
and any non-proprietary programs distributed according to license
requirements. This CD will not include MikroTikls proprietary SOFTWARE.
Hmm, is it a bad joke? MikroTik guys seem to be playing retards who are stuck in the last century without any means of having better and less expensive distribution channels. Is this price even somehow justified? I just can't believe that buying a blank CD, spending a few minutes for writing it, and shipping could cost anywhere like $45.

Anyway, does anybody know if this stuff is even useful for anything? I mean, is it really a usable kernel which can be compiled and flashed to the device? Could anybody share an iso image (via torrent or something) with these GPL sources? In the end I just want to have a kernel which can load the needed proprietary drivers from NAND and boot linux rootfs from microsd card. Is it too much?
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:19 am

You can look for the PDF links here: http://www.routerboard.com/index.php?showProduct=52
what's the problem with those documents?
Hmm, is it a bad joke?
You should study more about GPL. This is a valid method. If you want the kernel changes for making your own openwrt, you can simply email support and ask for the kernel patch, instead of complaining on the community forum, where nobody can help you.
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:17 pm

RouterOS will almost certainly be *based* in OpenWRT, or possibly even an earlier incarnation.

Without a doubt it is based on a mountain of GPL code, starting with the Linux Kernel.

Even so, People should *not* imagine that ROS is just a 'bit of a tweak' to Linux.

It's the product of zillions of man-hours ON TOP of the underlying Linux code.

E.G. the API and Windbox 'server' and the Winbox program are totally proprietory to MT - they did not exist in any form before MT made them.

I think that might be what Normis was trying to say.
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:18 pm

complaining on the community forum, where nobody can help you.
Bizzarely, some of us could help ....
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:22 pm

In the end I just want to have a kernel which can load the needed proprietary drivers from NAND and boot linux rootfs from microsd card.
The Drivers aren't too hard to do.
Booting from the MicroSD is harder, and there are a lot less of us that ever even dare mess with redboot.
Is it too much ?
Yes, it is.

If you can live with an ADM5120 based RB133 then you can have an easy time getting what you want.
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:03 am

Hmm, is it a bad joke? MikroTik guys seem to be playing retards who are stuck in the last century without any means of having better and less expensive distribution channels. Is this price even somehow justified? I just can't believe that buying a blank CD, spending a few minutes for writing it, and shipping could cost anywhere like $45.
The GPL permits charging a reasonable amount for the physical distribution. Likewise, if you distribute binaries as Mikrotik does, it must be accompanied by an offer valied for three years to obtain machine-readable source code for a charge "no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution..." -- And MikroTik does exactly this.

From GPL v2:
You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy...
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
...
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; ...
The $45 in question is not unreasonable. The cost to Mikrotik in employee time to process a source code request, make a machine-readable copy, and the cost to then send the copy quite easily fits the fee they charge.

If anyone really wants the source badly, but balks at the fee, they should join with someone else and split the cost, send a single request, obtain the source, then redistribute it freely (as is permitted by the GPL).

Aaron out.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:35 pm

I completely agree the cost is reasonable, albeit the financial access might not be.

It will cost MT, (if their bank is like mine) $12-$20 in wire fees. Maybe less if they can negotiate based on volume.
The US$ value floats with currency exchange as well, so it may mean far less LVL lately.
And the modest cost keeps "just curious" away. Afterall, I'd be much happier if MT had less people on the payroll, keeping costs down.

On the other hand, a Paypal-ish method would be far more widely accepted as wires are not very popular in some countries, or unavailable via an online interface or unfamiliar if you do no business abroad.

My bank, a division of RBS, has no web interface for wires. I had to register in person, I get a pin and then I call and talk to a very nice young lady to process my wires. I need all the info at my fingertips and it takes several minutes more than I'd like. THEN, minutes later, another nice young lady calls me back to confirm it all.... OK, so the talking to nice young ladies part is not painful.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:14 pm

Miss Moneypenny i assume ...
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:21 pm

Karma right back at ya. (I can't pm)
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:54 pm

There's no point baulking at what people like to charge, and claim that it's 'unreasonable'.

The highest fee i ever charged was 700 pounds for 1 hour.
What i did saved them 4 million quid, so it was well worth it, and only took half an hour in the end.

For me to send you a CD, or even a letter will take me at least 2 hours in travel time alone, so $45 is not unreasonable by comparison.

All you're arguing about is How Much because you want it Cheaper.

In the end, the Toolchain is only really useful to people who want to build their own firmware(s) to either use for direct Profit, or to sell for indirect Profit.
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:54 pm

What Karma ?
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:59 pm

In the end, the Toolchain is only really useful to people who want to build their own firmware(s) to either use for direct Profit, or to sell for indirect Profit.
You are absolutely wrong, most people just want to hack projects. Only a minority try to sell opensource firmware. You can take other known firmware sources as examples. It happens, I can't deny it, but it's definitely not the common usage of firmware source.

And most importantly, It really only will be of benefit to the sale of routers.
if the rb450G could boot openwrt, I would buy two more this moment. Actually I would also purchase a router board model with wireless.

We FLOSS people don't do things just for features, or raw ability. Its the openness and the flexibility, which appeals most.
truthfully this is a pretty large market, with nobody catering to it. The FLOSS people want a DIY ARM or MIPS based router, that can boot a generic distribution. They also tend to be the people less likely to use support resources. As long as things are open, the community almost does the rest. Basically being opensource friendly always means, "we provided the tool chain + any documents openly, we don't 'officially' support anything that comes from this."

there does exist other router options, but they are all x86. They are not real DIY embedded routers. x86 also uses a ton of power, even ATOM.
 
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:03 pm

In the end, the Toolchain is only really useful to people who want to build their own firmware(s) to either use for direct Profit, or to sell for indirect Profit.
You are absolutely wrong, most people just want to hack projects. Only a minority try to sell opensource firmware. You can take other known firmware sources as examples. It happens, I can't deny it, but it's definitely not the common usage of firmware source.

And most importantly, It really only will be of benefit to the sale of routers.
if the rb450G could boot openwrt, I would buy two more this moment. Actually I would also purchase a router board model with wireless.

We FLOSS people don't do things just for features, or raw ability. Its the openness and the flexibility, which appeals most.
truthfully this is a pretty large market, with nobody catering to it. The FLOSS people want a DIY ARM base router, that can boot a generic distribution. They also tend to be the people less likely to use support resources. As long as things are open, the community almost does the rest. Basically being opensource friendly always means, "we provided the tool chain + any documents openly, we don't 'officially' support anything that comes from this."

there does exist other router options, but they are all x86. They are not real DIY embedded routers. x86 also uses a ton of power, even ATOM.
Thanks for digging up the zombie thread from 2010, but the RB450 can run OpenWRT as I read in their community forum http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start#mikrotik
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Re: OpenWRT for Routerboard

Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:37 am

I apologize for creating unnecessary havoc, but I really felt that specific statement was unfairly hostile to FLOSS.

Speaking about my RB450G...
I haven't tried the install in a while, I will try it again ASAP. If I can get this thing to do openwrt, I could easily find uses for more in various contracts!

I have had a serial related problem, not sure if mine needs an RMA. I will create a new post, in the correct location.

I appreciate your time, thank you.
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