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SwissWISP
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CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:58 pm

Hi

does someone know if the socket on the attached picture could be used (or is maybe designed) to connect a secondary PSU?

Thanks!
- Mat
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janisk
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:43 pm

yes, other PSU can be used. Just note that PSUs have to provide different voltage, minimal delta should be no less than 1V, to be on the safe side you can go with 2V difference.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:54 am

Thanks for your reply janisk!

Do you know if we can monitor the voltage of the second PSU via SNMP?

- Mat
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:53 pm

you can monitor only active PSU. However if you have them with different rated voltages, then reading what voltage will give you what PSU you are using.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:00 pm

you can monitor only active PSU. However if you have them with different rated voltages, then reading what voltage will give you what PSU you are using.
Well, the problem is that if the backup PSU fails, we will never know. Maybe you can put this on the "wishlist" of additional features of the CCR series. ;-)
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:07 pm

if you have configuration as i described where main PSU output is higher than backup, then when main PSU fail it will switch to backup one, that already should be an indication that things are going wrong. When both of them fail, router will be offline.

edit: we will look into PSU sensing.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:13 pm

if you have configuration as i described where main PSU output is higher than backup, then when main PSU fail it will switch to backup one, that already should an indication that things are going wrong. When both of them fail, router will be offline.
I think you misunderstood me.
If the main PSU fails first, you will see a drop of the Voltage that's true. But what if the backup PSU fails and the main PSU still works. That's why sensing the backup PSU is needed too. Because you will not know that the backup PSU failed until the main PSU fails too.
edit: we will look into PSU sensing.
Thank you very much!


- Mat
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:44 pm

PSU with highest voltage will be used first. If PSU fails, other PSU will be used. At least PSUs used in our enclosures are of high quality and will not be damaged by idling without load, but connected to power.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:04 pm

Hello, I want to know secondary PSU can plug on ALL CCR series routers?
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:02 pm

yes they all have secondary connector on the PCB. You can open the case and check what power connectors exactly your router has.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:45 pm

It would be nice to buy the CCR with 2 PSUs in the first place. With the CCR you're moving into the data centers where this is standard.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:11 am

Is this the same deal with RB450G, that also has 2 power connectors?
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm

on RB450G it is differentl. You can use PoE and one of the connectors as both pext connectors are directly connected together.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:43 pm

It would be nice to buy the CCR with 2 PSUs in the first place. With the CCR you're moving into the data centers where this is standard.
+1

If I had a wish regarding the features of future CCRs, I would like to see that:

- Redundant, hot-swappable PSUs
- AC and DC PSU option
- hot-swappable fan tray with fan redundancy
- Power Plug retainer clips
- PSU Status via SNMP
dual_psu.png
That would make the CCR Series real carrier class routers.
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:07 am

if MT ake a psu nr2 option, and provide a hotswat option to this, the CCR would (after software upgrade that is consider as stable) be the best broadband router at marked today ( at a price the 90% smallest company could afford)
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:16 am

+1 for the post from SwissWISP ... that and a paid support subscription are the only parts holding us back in using Mikrotiks more and in more critical areas.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 am

+1, good idea!
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:50 am

Hi janisk,

I have ordered one CCR1036-12G-4S and I am currently waiting for delivery. I want to use the secondary PSU option, but can you tell me which should be the correct voltage and polarity for the additional PSU in order to work correctly (And to be a secondary PSU and not a primary one)?

Thanks and regards.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon May 20, 2013 9:30 pm

Booting up my CCR -- It shows 24VDC under system>health... So I'm guessing it takes anything between 10 - 28VDC.

As for Polarity.. Breakout a multimeter and check the built in PS, unless you get an answer sooner.


It'd be nice if this information was published in the CCR's user guide.
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue May 21, 2013 12:05 am

It would be nice to buy the CCR with 2 PSUs in the first place. With the CCR you're moving into the data centers where this is standard.
+1

If I had a wish regarding the features of future CCRs, I would like to see that:

- Redundant, hot-swappable PSUs
- AC and DC PSU option
- hot-swappable fan tray with fan redundancy
- Power Plug retainer clips
- PSU Status via SNMP
dual_psu.png
That would make the CCR Series real carrier class routers.
Bad ideea.
The price will rise from 1000$ (1500$ in my country) to 5000$. maybe more, who knows. 8)
I think :
- adding one power jack will rise the price to "CCR Series real carrier" up 1$ more so it's not a very good ideea.
- Power Plug retainer clips - 5cm of metal wire is a very big investment
- hot-swappable fan tray with fan redundancy - OMG, 2 fans will cost 5-10$ more to an 1500$ product, are you nut?
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue May 21, 2013 3:51 pm

yes, other PSU can be used. Just note that PSUs have to provide different voltage, minimal delta should be no less than 1V, to be on the safe side you can go with 2V difference.
What can happen if the two PSU voltages are too close, is there some risk of hardware damage? The normally higher voltage could become lower if the PSU is failing soon (old capacitors etc.), the hardware should be prepared for that. If there were just two Schottky diodes there wouldn't be any issue (just load sharing, harmless) if the delta is too small.

Also, what is the safe voltage range? CCR1016 quick guide says 18-28V, block diagram says 12-24V, I'd like to power from 10-14V (power supply with 12V lead acid battery backup) if possible, is that safe? Might be a good idea to accept standard -48V telecom power (36-60V) in future products though.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue May 21, 2013 4:08 pm

18V to 24V should be the correct value at least for CCR1036 as they are quite demanding regarding power.

If you use quality PSU you should be fine with both working on the same voltage, however you will not have any indication that one of them failed.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue May 21, 2013 4:18 pm

Can I ask what would happen if built in power supply goes faulty?

For example if the output is shorted due to some component malfunction could it in turn short out the power rails and if this occurs then there is no point in having a second power supply attached unless ( I haven't seen the block diagram) but if it was using steering diodes then they would isolate the power supply fault from the board and the second power supply would operate but this must also have steering diodes which also protects against polarity reversal.

http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 17#p261791
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Wed May 22, 2013 10:12 am

[...] however you will not have any indication that one of them failed.
As I stated above if the PSU with the lower voltage fails, you'll not notice it until the other PSU fails too. So the whole idea is just senseless anyway. A device like the CCR needs a proper dual-PSU setup incl. SNMP Monitoring and LED indicator on the front panel.

Just my 2 cts.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu May 23, 2013 11:49 am

[...] however you will not have any indication that one of them failed.
As I stated above if the PSU with the lower voltage fails, you'll not notice it until the other PSU fails too. So the whole idea is just senseless anyway. A device like the CCR needs a proper dual-PSU setup incl. SNMP Monitoring and LED indicator on the front panel.

Just my 2 cts.
Depending on power supply fault, there is a high probability that if one power supply goes faulty it could pull down the second as well unless there is isolation in place to prevent this occurring.
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu May 23, 2013 11:52 am

[...] however you will not have any indication that one of them failed.
As I stated above if the PSU with the lower voltage fails, you'll not notice it until the other PSU fails too. So the whole idea is just senseless anyway. A device like the CCR needs a proper dual-PSU setup incl. SNMP Monitoring and LED indicator on the front panel.

Just my 2 cts.
Depending on power supply fault, there is a high probability that if one power supply goes faulty it could pull down the second as well unless there is isolation in place to prevent this occurring.
That will not happen. Maybe I am missing something, if you have specific example, I can re-confirm with the engineers, but I am quite sure there is protection against that.
A device like the CCR needs a proper dual-PSU setup incl. SNMP Monitoring and LED indicator on the front panel.
I agree! We will work on dual-PSU devices in the future. The above is just a workaround.
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu May 23, 2013 12:30 pm

@Normis
Example - if the positive DC output due a component going faulty - shorted to earth - first there would be a very large current draw which in turn would blow any protection fuses and this will cut the AC supply - BUT the fault remains on the output of this power supply where the positive rail remains shorted to earth - the second power supply positive DC rail will also be effected by this and in turn it would also blow a fuse - then you have two dead power supplies one due to component failure and second due to excessive current draw - unless there in protection in place to isolate each power supply from each other so a fault in one doesn't cause a domino effect to the other?
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu May 23, 2013 12:47 pm

There is DC reverse flow protection on each DC input. Any shorts on one of the inputs does not effect other DC input.
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu May 23, 2013 1:28 pm

There is DC reverse flow protection on each DC input. Any shorts on one of the inputs does not effect other DC input.
This is good to read, is there a block diagram of the board available with more data.
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu May 23, 2013 1:29 pm

Sorry, there isn't
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Fri May 31, 2013 2:19 am

What is the PSU connector type called on the board? The two pin header?
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:50 am

and port poe does not work? not feed as an alternative source of energy?
tested and it will not turn the door poe.
is written on port 12 which is poe. but not working.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:07 am

CCR doesn't have PoE support. The labels were wrong in the pre-production batch
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:00 pm

Any hope of getting PoE on the CCR1016-12G?

We would really like to be able to use on some of our core sites since the RB110AHx2 are beginning to creak but without either putting in mains UPS (too inefficient) or voiding warranty (hard to sell to management) I don't see how we can do so.

You have a board, you have a case and you'd definitely have a market, all it will take is some screws and a new label (or even some of the pre-production labels if there are any left)

Can we buy a CCR1016-12G-BU and an empty case even? Seems rather extreme to gut a working router just to get a case! ;-)

Barry
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Hello Folks!

Where do I got the second psu to install in the ccr router ?
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:23 pm

Any hope of getting PoE on the CCR1016-12G?

We would really like to be able to use on some of our core sites since the RB110AHx2 are beginning to creak but without either putting in mains UPS (too inefficient) or voiding warranty (hard to sell to management) I don't see how we can do so.

You have a board, you have a case and you'd definitely have a market, all it will take is some screws and a new label (or even some of the pre-production labels if there are any left)

Can we buy a CCR1016-12G-BU and an empty case even? Seems rather extreme to gut a working router just to get a case! ;-)

Barry
As regards the RB110AHx2 I simply bypassed the internal power supply and connected to DC battery bank which powers all dc (24V) equipment on site, onto the battery bank is a float charger attached to keep batteries charged. A simple solution for me.
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:49 pm

Can someone confirm for me, before I place my order, that all Cloud Core series boards support this? Even the 32 core?

Thanks c:
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:54 pm

+1 Hot swap Dual PSU!!!
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:15 pm

+1 hot swap DC power supply
or dual 1AC and 1DC (-48V DC) PS
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue May 13, 2014 11:07 pm

Did someone upgrade the CCR 1016/36 to a dual power machine? How could I do it? There is not enough space for a second PSU inside. Do you buy two new smaller PSU and make a second hole for the power cable tail in the chassis? Or do you take an external PSU and wire it to the internal connector?
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Fri May 16, 2014 7:11 am

New CCR1016-12S-1S+ and CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+ have dual PSU. But both of them are AC. But CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+ has additional PoE capability (802.3af). What is the electric structure? How to connect with 1xAC and 1xDC for redundant power.
MT guys please explain more detail for us.
----------------------------
Want to learn more and more...
 
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CCR - Secondary PSU: Internal power connector

Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:33 pm

Hi,
Apologies for refloating this old thread, but I feel it is the right place.
The power connector in the starting post looks a lot like a Molex 10-63-4037. At least, it's the best match I found when investigating how to hack dual internal, redundant power supplies into a CRS226-24G-2S+RM.
Hope MT can confirm or correct my guess.
Thanks.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:13 am

Gonna resurrect this thread again... I got a CCR-1036 and the secondary power supply connector is not actually installed on the board, though I can see where it obviously goes. Other than having no connector, will the secondary supply work on the CCR-1036 as it does the other CCRs?
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:04 pm

Gonna resurrect this thread again... I got a CCR-1036 and the secondary power supply connector is not actually installed on the board, though I can see where it obviously goes. Other than having no connector, will the secondary supply work on the CCR-1036 as it does the other CCRs?
I have made some preliminary testing, albeit with underpowered P/S for the model, and it seems to indicate that it will. If you look at the m/b, there seems to be two DC-DC converters, one per connector.

BTW, in the last few weeks we have seen 3 of the original P/S (the PCB is marked WT-L120W) fail. They seem to have one of their capacitors blown up.

Since these latest happenings have somewhat undermined my trust in those P/S, and I need to find a compact model for the secondary anyway, I have identified two candidates based on the CCR1036-12G-4S power requirements of 69W (presumably input, although the specs don't state this)and input of 13V-30V:

The Mean Well EPS-120
The Delta PJT-24V100WBBA

UPDATE: The Mean Well EPS-65S-24, albeit very slightly underrated at 65W, will sustain a peak load of 71W for 10 seconds, measures a mere 76.2 x 50.8 x 24 mm and has a unit cost below 20 euros. Any input, pardon the pun, about this seemingly interesting choice?

Does the community have anything to share about these P/S or similar models? A slightly smaller footprint would be great, as space is at a premium inside the CCR1036.
Also, has anybody had cases of these P/S failing? Did you consider anything other than RMA or buy an identical spare P/S?

Thanks.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:08 pm

space isnt a premium inside the CCR, the CCR could be extended to be longer so it will be able to fit more things.

One of the things i would really like to do is connect a battery to the CCR's input directly but i dont think routerOS supports batteries (i doubt it would charge the battery if power is available from first PSU).

Rather than a UPS, avoiding AC-DC-AC conversions gives a much higher efficiency and makes things cheaper as theres less components.
 
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CCR 1036 secondary PSU

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:46 pm

We had 3 of the original PS blown in just 2 weeks, all with a bulge appearing at the top of C10 like this:
IMG_8682.jpg
Therefore, I had to invest some time into this. The results are as follows.

The first decision was easy. Since SMPS of the required 69W (according to the specs posted at http://www.cloudcorerouter.com/) are not very expensive, we decided to replace them with a better model. The choice was the proven Traco Power TOP 100, although I'll probably check out the newer and more compact TPI 100-124A-J later on. They both provide 100W.

One of the most sorely missed features in the CCR 1036 is dual power supplies. The problem is that space is tight inside the box, so a tiny PS was required. I settled for the Mean Well EPS-65S. While a little bit underpowered, it will allow for a peak power of 71.6W for 10 seconds which should be enough - none of the CCR 1036 in production take more than 55W continuously. Importantly, it has a low profile with a height of only 24mm PCB base to top.

To install this PS, I designed and 3D printed a base that attaches to the left of the mainboard using the original screws:
second ps support.png
I have attached the source for this base in OpenSCAD.
The PS is attached to the base with M3 screws, nuts and bolts.

Connectors for the PS are specified in their respective data sheets. Unfortunately, one uses Molex and the other JST; both are cheap and easy to work with.

Once I started testing, I found that when the Mean Well got their power input removed, it would for some reason cause the router to reset. I think it draws a peak of power and stalls the Traco Power, since that PS was not designed for redundancy. This was solved by inserting a 1N4004 diode between the +V pin of the Mean Well and the mainboard. In the next conversion, I'll add the same diode for the other PS just in case.

With that out of the way, testing was smooth. Either PS can boot the router and keep it working for as long as I have tested so far. Any single removal of power goes unnoticed by the router.

The Traco Power get a bit warm, but not a lot. The Mean Well, probably because its inline diode keeps its voltage slightly under the other and therefor gets no load, keeps cool.

A bit more testing in the bench, then some testing in the datacenter, and if nothing pops up they will be signed off for production work.
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:57 am

I can confirm as of 9/2016 the ccr1036 no longer has two regulators on the board, even if you install a connector to the missing PCB holes it will not power the router on the second connector at all
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:59 am

Oh and I found this out after buying the mean well power supply, paid to have a 3d printed base , ordered a iec connector and 3 different types of connectors for the ac DC psu and the ccr PCB .. thanks mikrotik you guys really are something!!!
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:05 pm

Do you have equipment to solder the required components? They cost almost nothing.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:28 am

Without dual PSU connector there is a way to get dual PSU but it will screw up the PSU monitoring. You can connect both PSU's to the same connector but you will need 2 pairs of diodes for something called OR-ing.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:31 am

Yes I'm aware of all the alternate options but I'm just confused why the 1009 has dual psu but the 1036 does not, so stupid. Then initially they included a second psu header then later removed it but left the circuitry to support a header and second psu now they have removed the circuity and I bet there hasn't ever been any notification of these hardware revisions! Normal for mikrotik I guess...
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:02 am

I hope they got someone else to make their PSUs at least. The PSUs that came with these CCRs are crappy,
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:08 pm

Without dual PSU connector there is a way to get dual PSU but it will screw up the PSU monitoring. You can connect both PSU's to the same connector but you will need 2 pairs of diodes for something called OR-ing.
Well you don't get monitoring anyway (or at least I haven't seen a way) so good idea. I would do that.
 
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:05 pm

Yes I'm aware of all the alternate options but I'm just confused why the 1009 has dual psu but the 1036 does not, so stupid. Then initially they included a second psu header then later removed it but left the circuitry to support a header and second psu now they have removed the circuity and I bet there hasn't ever been any notification of these hardware revisions! Normal for mikrotik I guess...
CCR1009 is a much newer model. The CCR1036 was the first CCR.
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expo
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:25 pm

I see, so what has it been 5 years now? Are we still buying inventory that was made during the initial production batch?
 
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StrataNet
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:09 am

18V to 24V should be the correct value at least for CCR1036 as they are quite demanding regarding power.
Hi,
Do you have an accurate voltage tolerance of the CCR1036 input? I'm looking to remove the internal PSU and power directly with DC. I've read a few different values on this topic, so would like to be sure.
Cheers!
 
expo
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:14 am

we power directly with a custom made plate that holds a phoenix connector on the back in the ac psu location, I know for sure 22-28 but I suspect probably 18-30vdc
 
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chechito
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:44 am

Yes I'm aware of all the alternate options but I'm just confused why the 1009 has dual psu but the 1036 does not, so stupid. Then initially they included a second psu header then later removed it but left the circuitry to support a header and second psu now they have removed the circuity and I bet there hasn't ever been any notification of these hardware revisions! Normal for mikrotik I guess...
i think pcb size complicate power supply space

there is a new "revision" of ccr1036 with dual power supply

ccr1036 revision.jpg
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anuser
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Re: CCR - Secondary PSU

Thu May 30, 2019 12:38 am

What is the part number of those integrated 100 - 240 Volt AC power supplies in CCR1036 revision 2 devices?

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