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Moonwalker
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Replacement for RB1000

Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:32 pm

Good day colleagues. The time has come for us to buy hotspare for our RB1000. But when I looked through current model line of Mikrotik it turned that there's no definitive replacement for obsolete RB1000. Of course there's RB1100 but it has 13 ethernet ports while RB1000 had only 4 (and that is enough for our purposes). There's also various RB2011 (I think it's present mainstream solution in model line) but they have only 600 MHz CPU and only 64 MB RAM.

In our organization we use NAT/Firewall, DHCP server, 5 site-to-site tunnels and VLAN-based network access. This whole package is served for about 100 desktops and servers.

Some time ago we bought RB433AH as a coldspare. But when all load was moved to it we definitely felt lack of performance. Later we moved it to another office with lower load.

So which RB should we buy? :?
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ste
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AW: Replacement for RB1000

Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:22 pm

There is no small replacement. You have to buy a bigger one. CCR is very promising.
 
Dobby
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:46 pm

Deleted because not related.
Last edited by Dobby on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:12 am

Huh I just looked through model list on your site and there wasn't any trace of RB1100. Is it discontinued?

And about CCR-1016. Are you kidding me? :D I have no doubt it's a cool piece of iron for corresponding purposes but serving network for 100 PCs is too small job for it. Our RB1000 with single core CPU does its job well so I think we don't have to pay for 15 additional ones :D

So the question remains the same: what will be a good spare for RB1000? Maybe somebody have some experience which I would be glad to hear. Thx forward
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ste
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:19 pm

Huh I just looked through model list on your site and there wasn't any trace of RB1100. Is it discontinued?

And about CCR-1016. Are you kidding me? :D I have no doubt it's a cool piece of iron for corresponding purposes but serving network for 100 PCs is too small job for it. Our RB1000 with single core CPU does its job well so I think we don't have to pay for 15 additional ones :D

So the question remains the same: what will be a good spare for RB1000? Maybe somebody have some experience which I would be glad to hear. Thx forward
Are you kidding? Is the price of the CCR-1016 to high for a 100 PC Network?
There are more ports than needed? Ok. Dont use them. It is faster than needed.
Ok does not matter.
 
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:36 pm

Buying an expensive equipment and using 1% of it is not a trick. The trick is to buy the most appropriate device for appropriate price.

What about RB800? 256 MB of RAM should be enough as we have 476 MB free on RB1000. Can it hold this amount of load? :?
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JanezFord
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:59 pm

Buying an expensive equipment and using 1% of it is not a trick. The trick is to buy the most appropriate device for appropriate price.

What about RB800? 256 MB of RAM should be enough as we have 476 MB free on RB1000. Can it hold this amount of load? :?
Depends .... How high is CPU load on your RB1000 at the moment?

Maybe you could also consider RB1200, but not if you are using IPSEC. RB1200 has a long lasting bug which adds latency to IPSEC which (at least for me) is unacceptable and there is no assurance it will ever get fixed! It is also less powerfull than RB1000, but more than RB800.

I am not familiar with details about your network and how much traffic your 100 PCs make ... In networks I manage I see a steady increase in amount of traffic (web pages get bigger and content richer, emails get longer, more HD video, p2p services, ...) and also number devices increases (printers, phones, tablets, almost anything new today has wifi or lan port, transition from coax surveillance systems to ip cameras ...) so I know I am gonna need more CPU power in years to follow for queuing, proxy, link upgrade, ipv6 implementation (dual stack for a transition?) ... consider this too when choosing a router ... I doubt your network topology and your network traffic will remain exactly the same for next 5-7 years. More CPU and RAM also gives you more possibilities for other services (dude, meta router, user manager, hotspot, maybe wireless controller will get developed sometime in the future) ...

also, rb800 + case + power supply will get you somewhere close to 3/4 price of a 1016 CCR and even closer to RB1100AHx2 which is a very stable alternative to CCR that I personally would not consider to use in production environment until all bugs are cleared and ROS is optimized for multicore operation.

If rb433ah couldn't handle the load, don't consider rb2011 units, although rb2011uas has 128MB RAM.

So in my point of view your only choice can be:

RB800 - if your current load on rb1000 is not too high and you expect the same load in the future
RB1200 - if you don't need ipsec
RB1100AHx2 - obvious choice for a stable product and an upgrade to your rb1000
CCR 1016 - currently under development
CCR 1036 - currently under development (also adds 4 SPF for future use)

JF
 
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:20 pm

Buying an expensive equipment and using 1% of it is not a trick. The trick is to buy the most appropriate device for appropriate price.

What about RB800? 256 MB of RAM should be enough as we have 476 MB free on RB1000. Can it hold this amount of load? :?
Depends .... How high is CPU load on your RB1000 at the moment?

Maybe you could also consider RB1200, but not if you are using IPSEC. RB1200 has a long lasting bug which adds latency to IPSEC which (at least for me) is unacceptable and there is no assurance it will ever get fixed! It is also less powerfull than RB1000, but more than RB800.

I am not familiar with details about your network and how much traffic your 100 PCs make ... In networks I manage I see a steady increase in amount of traffic (web pages get bigger and content richer, emails get longer, more HD video, p2p services, ...) and also number devices increases (printers, phones, tablets, almost anything new today has wifi or lan port, transition from coax surveillance systems to ip cameras ...) so I know I am gonna need more CPU power in years to follow for queuing, proxy, link upgrade, ipv6 implementation (dual stack for a transition?) ... consider this too when choosing a router ... I doubt your network topology and your network traffic will remain exactly the same for next 5-7 years. More CPU and RAM also gives you more possibilities for other services (dude, meta router, user manager, hotspot, maybe wireless controller will get developed sometime in the future) ...

also, rb800 + case + power supply will get you somewhere close to 3/4 price of a 1016 CCR and even closer to RB1100AHx2 which is a very stable alternative to CCR that I personally would not consider to use in production environment until all bugs are cleared and ROS is optimized for multicore operation.

If rb433ah couldn't handle the load, don't consider rb2011 units, although rb2011uas has 128MB RAM.

So in my point of view your only choice can be:

RB800 - if your current load on rb1000 is not too high and you expect the same load in the future
RB1200 - if you don't need ipsec
RB1100AHx2 - obvious choice for a stable product and an upgrade to your rb1000
CCR 1016 - currently under development
CCR 1036 - currently under development (also adds 4 SPF for future use)

JF
Thx a lot for such detailed answer. Yes, I was thinking about RB1100 too, but it's absent for purchase. I don't know if it's temporary or it has become obsolete. I wish it is temporary.

Our total traffic sometimes reaches 50-60 Mbps. Is RB800 capable to handle this? :?
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JanezFord
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:10 pm


So in my point of view your only choice can be:

RB800 - if your current load on rb1000 is not too high and you expect the same load in the future
RB1200 - if you don't need ipsec
RB1100AHx2 - obvious choice for a stable product and an upgrade to your rb1000
CCR 1016 - currently under development
CCR 1036 - currently under development (also adds 4 SPF for future use)

JF
Thx a lot for such detailed answer. Yes, I was thinking about RB1100 too, but it's absent for purchase. I don't know if it's temporary or it has become obsolete. I wish it is temporary.

Our total traffic sometimes reaches 50-60 Mbps. Is RB800 capable to handle this? :?
RB1100 seems to be discontinued... but there are two more routers from RB1100 "family" RB1100AH and RB1100AHx2 which are more powerfull versions of RB1100. x2 also adds hardware support for ipsec.

It is not just about 50-60Mbps that can help determine the CPU load ... it also depends how many firewall rules you use, how many queues, how many packets are there in those 50-60mbits (more small packets = higher load), how many simultaneous connections are there inside those 50-60mbits, do you use nat, connection tracking, .... ? For a "typical" use (if there is such a thing as typical use) rb800 should be able to handle 50-60mbit/s without problems... but also should rb433ah so I doubt your load is that "typical" ....

Turn on graphing for CPU and/or other resources

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Tools/Graphing

leave it running for a week or more and see how high CPU usage gets when your link is loaded. It will help you decide about rb800, rb1200 or rb1100/1100ahx2 ....

JF
 
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:43 pm

Damn, I've used wrong filter on products list and saw nothing from RB1XXX series :( Now I see them and looks like we'll buy RB1100AH if there is any dealer at our place. Anyway thx a lot
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:43 pm

Deleted because not related.
Last edited by Dobby on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:09 pm

Under the link shown in the next line you will be able to see and watch out the last price for a MikroTik RB1000,
it was on sale for only $685 and I was suggesting you a device for $645, so please would you tell me now where is
here the problem and who is kidding you!?
Well I don't really know who decided to buy this RB1000 because I work here only for 6 months. So even somebody thought some time ago that company needs top device for 685$ - fine by me, but now I decide what to buy and I think it doesn't have to be top model. And actually that's why I started this chat - to get some help in choosing.
$685 - $645 = $45 where the hell you were counting and coming on the price of 15x ????????
I meant 15 additional CPU cores, not 15 times increased price :)
And in three years you are searching the next router, or?
Not next, the second one. We need redundant configuration via VRRP
Perhaps you can talk to your local MikroTik dealer or distributor and find a way to test out some different devices
and then you will exactly know what is going on with your network and what not! So you can doing tests and after one or two weeks the dealer is selling a device, so in my opinion both sides are winning and be happy.
According to our local laws we can return any device within 14 days just because "we don't like it". But operations like this related with document arrangement and other "paper jobs" which bookkeepers don't like to do. So if anybody could share his experience with definitive device it would save time and health :)

BTW I already wrote that RB1100AH is the best option so the thing is to find local dealer which has it. So the chat has finished successfully :) THX everybody for response
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:10 pm

 
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:33 pm

Definitely cheaper but what about performance? :?
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:42 pm

That's a hard question for me.. (without aaaaany information on what you use that rb1000 to, or how it performs now)
 
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Re: Replacement for RB1000

Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:37 am

That's a hard question for me.. (without aaaaany information on what you use that rb1000 to, or how it performs now)
Well actually I specified what features we use at very beginning of this chat. In addition I can tell that most of the time CPU load does not exceed 10% and only about 32 MB of RAM is occupied. Also there won't be major growth of our infrastructure
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