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NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:27 am

Hi
Can anyone logically explain why NetMETAL5 will be without the DC IN connector?

When someone wants to use the SFP it will not use POE
and then the DC connector is required.

Use twisted pair to power the device exposes unnecessary damage the LAN port.
NetMETAL5_withoutDC.png
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:12 pm

Maybe You should remove sticker?! ;P
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:29 pm

It may be exist version with and without jack
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:03 pm

how much does it cost and where are the spec?
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:57 pm

It's better to use a ethernet cable for power than a powerplug !
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:20 pm

Why do you think so?
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:40 pm

I have lost memory about last time I powered up one bridge/cpe/access-point by jack...

Just the "desktop" units...
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
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honzam
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:46 pm

There are 2versions rb922GS

1. with rp-rsma connectors and without jack
2. with mmcx connector and with jack
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php ... 16#p436021
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:32 am

I have lost memory about last time I powered up one bridge/cpe/access-point by jack...

Just the "desktop" units...
OK but this is fiber product (SFP fiber connection)

If there were no SFP, then the lack of the DC is OK.
However, in the case of the use of the fiber why do I have to use POE?

The LAN port is very susceptible to surges.
The use of fiber optic and dedicated power cable with DC jack solves all problems.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:38 pm

where to find this product ???
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:54 pm

This product is not on the market now
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:51 pm

Is common - also by high end licenced Wireless Products, to Power by Ethernet - even if traffic goes by fiber.

Why dont you want to Power by a Ethernet cable? Why struggle With another cable With dc plug? - its so much easier - and better, to just make an Ethernet cable - than tro struggle With a long cable With a Jack in the end to the top of a tower
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:05 am

Is common - also by high end licenced Wireless Products, to Power by Ethernet - even if traffic goes by fiber.

Why dont you want to Power by a Ethernet cable? Why struggle With another cable With dc plug? - its so much easier - and better, to just make an Ethernet cable - than tro struggle With a long cable With a Jack in the end to the top of a tower
Agreed.
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:49 pm

Only one simple reason:

Hold a long ethernet cable to the LAN port without proper grounding, not once will cause damage to the Ethernet port by surge / lightning

And very often, at least we do not have how to properly grounded.

Properly installed Ethernet installation should be grounded on both sides.
Often it is impossible to do. By which the device is exposed to damage the Ethernet port



I know that you can cut a wire in an ethernet cable, etc.

But why do strange patents? When could that be done as it should be.

Really none of you do not damage the Ethernet ports from surges?

(I omit the fact that in case of damage ethernet port by surges mikrotik always refuses warranty - I think that is exactly the point here?
Breaks down, you have to buy new, and business is booming, but there is one problem while in the case of client devices OK but access devices should be as resistant to failures)

The cost of making the DC is none, is a fraction of a percent price of the device.
A significantly increases the comfort of the installation and reduces the failure rate.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:27 am

HaQs, how do you get power up on a big tower?
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:26 am

I using this solution:
http://eltek.com/detail_products.epl?id=1142834
Given that in most location have a licensed radio links require a power supply-48V DC

To power RouterBoards i actualy use additional converters -48VDC / +24 V DC


For power I always use direct cable with a larger cross-section
There has never been a problem with that. But with damaged LAN ports with POE yes
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:29 pm

i dont know in your contry - but here the default way of grounding is to ground at top - where ethernet goes to radio - in bottom - before the cabbin that have IDU's and dont put the grounding inside. If tower is bigger that 30 meter, you also ground cable on its way down. Its no problem using ethernet to power units in tower's if done right. There is problem using non grounded power inside telecom cabbin if station is grounded, but then its no problem in tower - but on ground. eltek units, i have never seen broken after a thunderstorm - nighter equipement behind.

Its possible to have no ground at all in anny place - then power will go in bottom but not radio/ethernet.

If you ground ethernet and dont do it right, you will force elektrisity to go to ethernet of radio in top of a tower. Then it will always be broken
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:53 pm

I am not a customer who buys 5-10 pieces RB :)
In the network we have actually about 2000 pcs RB.

And there are places where the lan ports are damaged every year, and are where it never had , it all depends on the location. More precisely, the severity of lightning on location

Direct DC power input and fiber data transmision always eliminate this problem

Soldering the DC especially, that RB is under prepared for it is not a big expense, and thus the device will be more versatile.

As for me netmetal after adding that DC JACK input is the perfect product

So much of this topic.
 
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Re: AW: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:33 pm

I am not a customer who buys 5-10 pieces RB :)
In the network we have actually about 2000 pcs RB.

And there are places where the lan ports are damaged every year, and are where it never had , it all depends on the location. More precisely, the severity of lightning on location

Direct DC power input and fiber data transmision always eliminate this problem

Soldering the DC especially, that RB is under prepared for it is not a big expense, and thus the device will be more versatile.

As for me netmetal after adding that DC JACK input is the perfect product

So much of this topic.
We use rugged switches with 4 802af ports and sfp which need 48V. So run fiber and 48V to the switch and connect the .ac boards with a short cable to the switch.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:12 pm

I am not a customer who buys 5-10 pieces RB :)
In the network we have actually about 2000 pcs RB.

And there are places where the lan ports are damaged every year, and are where it never had , it all depends on the location. More precisely, the severity of lightning on location

Direct DC power input and fiber data transmision always eliminate this problem

Soldering the DC especially, that RB is under prepared for it is not a big expense, and thus the device will be more versatile.

As for me netmetal after adding that DC JACK input is the perfect product

So much of this topic.

This is not a q about "how manny devices" out there. We have about 12000-13000 routerboards out there now, and have done like this since 2005. We have learned a bit. To have a DC connected router - newer produce less error/fail, than the devices in tower powered by ethernet. I have seen it all, and gronding is an issue to be learned, studied, and have as 100% job, by an engineer. Grounding is not easy.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:26 pm

Exactly :)

The point is that it is not always possible to make proper grounding Ethernet
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:51 am

how about grounding DC?
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:37 pm

DC Direct installation is much less susceptible to surges than POE.

Never in my life did not have time to damage after direct line voltage. (by EMP)
Unless, of course does not pass the power supply from the power supply surge.
(ground was not properly made ​​because there was such a possibility)


solution:
Direct DC in (power) and FIBER (data) will always be less susceptible to surges of POE.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:40 pm

I think what everyone is trying to say is, that with PoE it is easier to incorrectly ground your installation :) If correctly grounded, there will be just as much resistance to surges.
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:13 pm

I think what everyone is trying to say is, that with PoE it is easier to incorrectly ground your installation :) If correctly grounded, there will be just as much resistance to surges.
+10.
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:19 pm

I write all the time, that's the point about the lack of grounding :)

Often, we are going to have earthing is not corect.
Then SFP and Direct DC IN solves this problem.

And that's why I use jack DC

Poor installation or lack thereof on the object / Possible inability to perform grounding
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:49 pm

The simple answer to this thread is that the people promoting PoE over DC simply are not as professional as those using DC. Licensed radios are installed with a DC lug and fiber.

More and more American WISPs are moving to a DC plant due to its resistance to surge damage. They run 10 gauge or larger wires up the tower and have a DC distribution system at the top. For equipment without a DC lug they obviously have to use PoE, but having a DC jack\lug is much preferred.

Simply put, the OP is correct. Fix it.
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:52 pm

Thank you for the feature suggestion. Let's keep it professional and not insult others knowledge or experience.
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:11 pm

The simple answer to this thread is that the people promoting PoE over DC simply are not as professional as those using DC. Licensed radios are installed with a DC lug and fiber.

More and more American WISPs are moving to a DC plant due to its resistance to surge damage. They run 10 gauge or larger wires up the tower and have a DC distribution system at the top. For equipment without a DC lug they obviously have to use PoE, but having a DC jack\lug is much preferred.

Simply put, the OP is correct. Fix it.
Some vendors of professional licensed Gear go the other way. E.g. SAF-Tehnikas Integra comes with SFP and POE like the Netmetal. The older Lumina had Fiber and DC. Using POE and 802.af/at Standards reduce the overall complexity.

We now go the way to move rugged switches up the tower which can provide POE to the sectors. The switches are powered
with 48V and have SFPs. So we are able to run fiber und 48V up the tower and connect the sectors with short cables and do poe.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:34 pm

I think what everyone is trying to say is, that with PoE it is easier to incorrectly ground your installation :) If correctly grounded, there will be just as much resistance to surges.
+10.
-10
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:54 pm

Why quote me?
I'm Italian, not English. Sorry for my imperfect grammar.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:43 am

No one here wants to remove the POE :) (it is ok but not always)

Only add additional DC input (which is not too expensive)

And everyone will be happy :)

In addition, it was good practice to always install the DC IN if the product has SFP.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:45 pm

Any PoSFP?
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:35 pm

ftp://69.107.207.126/public/Customer%20 ... -18-8F.pdf

That's what the cellular guys use for DC and fiber distribution. That may be overkill, but I don't know as I haven't priced it out.
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:49 pm

ftp://69.107.207.126/public/Customer%20 ... -18-8F.pdf

That's what the cellular guys use for DC and fiber distribution. That may be overkill, but I don't know as I haven't priced it out.
We have - lets say 50-100 licenced links. Mainly dragonwave and exalt. Exalt mainly use poe and DW have some combined DC/poe option - but via a injektor / light surge protection.

http://www.talleycom.com/store/product/ ... HC-02.html
http://shop.bizsyscon.com/index.php/tra ... exalt.html


Look at both - The realy big grounding option.


To DW unit a gigabit mikrotik poe can be used - but this is what the producer want to use - to have the correct protection and grounding.
 
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Re: NetMETAL 5 (ac with SFP) - without DC in ?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:41 pm

Brochure
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