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mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:42 pm
by zennik
I have a question about the 802.3af support in the mAP.

I picked up two of them in hopes I could use them in a specific deployment scenario.
While they both boot up and work fine in hard power, USB power, and passive PoE... I cannot get them to power up at all off of a standard 802.3af PoE switch.

So am I missing something? Or does Mikrotik mAP not support standard 802.3af?

I have tried the following switches:
Veracity Global 5 port PoE
Netgear GS110TP
Netgear FS116P
Dell PowerConnect 3448P
Alcatel Lucent 6400P
Alcatel Lucent 6850P
Foundry SuperX

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:55 am
by janisk
try a crossover cable for the Mode B.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:10 am
by strods
mAP boards should work with 802.3af standart with crossover cable in mode B. Make sure that your PoE-OUT supports 802.3af standart and, if it still is not working, then forced on mode could help.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:33 pm
by zennik
try a crossover cable for the Mode B.

I will give this a try tonight, thank you.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:20 am
by joegoldman
try a crossover cable for the Mode B.

I will give this a try tonight, thank you.
Please be sure to report back with your findings

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:31 am
by marekm
try a crossover cable for the Mode B.
MikroTik, sorry about the rant but please don't claim "802.3af support" as that standard requires PDs to accept both modes A/B (PSE is free to choose any one of them), both polarities, and 1500V isolation. The proper (not cheapest though) way to implement 802.3af PD is to use two bridge rectifiers and isolated (!) DC/DC converter. Otherwise, if one "almost 802.3af but not quite" PD has negative ground and another one has positive ground, you suddenly have 50V DC between the cases of the two devices. While 50V DC doesn't sound very lethal, it could still be dangerous for someone working on a roof/mast etc.
I use Rocket M5 Ti APs which support 802.3af properly as PDs (except their supplied 48V PoE adapter is passive and not proper 802.3af PSE, best to discard it so it won't accidentally fry anything and simply use a proper 802.3af switch instead, works fine for me with Nortel 5520-24T-PWR and SMCGS8P-Smart switches). Would like to start using MT's new 802.11ac stuff (UBNT is not there yet, PtP only for now) but will have to wait until 802.3af is done properly (not cheaply).

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:24 am
by MarcusH
Tried the TP-Link TL-PoE150S 802.3af injector with straight and cross-over cable! It is not working! Very disappointed!

http://www.tp-link.us/products/details/ ... E150S#spec

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:23 pm
by janisk
Unfortunately, you will have to use a PSE that does support Mode B. Unfortunately, that is the limitation.

Regarding -VDC, our router will not pass the test [for -VDC] and PSE will not supply power to the device connected.

Also, there are plans for improvement.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:38 pm
by marizo
And do not be surprised when af pass-through won't powering chained af device because two devices exceeds PSE power limits.
I think mAP PoE out is useful only as replacement for MT PoE injector to power some SXT or something like that outdoors.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:54 am
by marekm
The PSE is often a switch with many ports which power other (truly 802.3af standard compliant) devices, so it may not be practical to change it.
Good to hear there are plans for improvement, better late than never. IMHO, passive PoE should have been replaced by standard 802.3af as soon as gigabit PoE was introduced. The setup I'm working on has the PoE switch powered from -48V DC battery backup (positive ground, it also powers licensed microwave links where -48V DC is passed through the coax from the IDU to the ODU) so I must be careful to only connect proper 802.3af devices with isolated DC/DC converters.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:12 am
by janisk
your PSE should not have any problems with not powering mAP or any other device that is not supporting positive grounding. At least RouterBOARD products should just not work. As only RB800 has galvanic isolation and can work with any power source. The rest of line-up is with negative grounding.

marizo 802.3at can provide of up to 30W to the wire. Maximal power consumption of mAP is 2W with usual power draw of ~0.5W so you can calculate how many mAPs can one such port power up (with restrictions of negative ground, ModeB supported by PSE)

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:08 pm
by marizo
Thanks for reply, janisk.
I was too rude, but i didn't say it newer works. I just recommend carefully consider hardware choice.
Yes, powering mAP chain from af/at could work, but i can't imagine why i should do that (update: I can - maybe as cable repeater)
Let me explain what I mean:
There are plenty of different PoE switches, af, at standards, various total power budget; various PDs; adherence to standards etc. There have been cases, when some cheapest 4 port af PoE switch is too weak to power up 4 IP af PoE cameras at the same time. If there were some mAP chained, it could be impossible at all.
But at switches are much more expensive, so the most common are af switches.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:57 pm
by zennik
To finally reply, I tried a Mode B cable and still no go. Only powers up with a passive injector attached to it.

I can make this work with my intended deployment right now, but it really limits some of my future deployment ideas.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:07 pm
by neophyte
dlink des-3200-28p and dgs-1008p vs mAP2n poe dont work :? :(

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:54 pm
by troffasky
Beyond "just a normal PoE switch" that the claimed 802.3af support implies, what are the actual requirements for powering a mAP2n with 802.3af?

The wiki says that "...PDs that implement only Mode A or Mode B are disallowed by the standard...", so if the mAP2n only supports mode B, then it seems to me that it can't claim to be 802.3af compliant.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:17 am
by coylh
Does this routerboard work with any switches? Robust standard POE is going to be important (cAP).

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:08 am
by coylh
Nobody?

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:14 pm
by dcosgrove
I too have been unable to power the MAP via a PoE switch. I am currently trying with the device that gives me the most options a GS110TP:
PoE.png
Using a crossover cable as requested:
crossover.png
The unit powers up fine with a RB/GPOE

Thanks,
Don

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 am
by AlexSerKai
Extremely interesting topic! It looks like nobody managed to provide working example which uses non-mikrotik 802.3af enabled roter/switch and mikrotik mAP 2n (I looked through a lot of open topics but in vain. Everybody faces the same issue).

It makes me feel that we (mAP 2n users) were slightly misled with 802.3af support. Looking forward for mikrotik experts comments and clarification with working examples.

As to me 802.3af support is a key feature for this tiny device :-)

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:50 pm
by neophyte
We are extremely deceived (((((
map2n - brick .....

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:56 pm
by normis
It looks like 802.3af support only works with specific type of switches. We will remove all reference to 802.3af in brochures and elsewhere, as currently it looks like it will not work with all devices. We will publish a list of supported switches in the Wiki

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:45 pm
by indnti
Do you know if HP 2530-24G-PoEP Switch (J9773A) will work?

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:53 am
by coylh
RBSXTG-5HPacD 802.11at POE doesn't work either.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:47 am
by normis
RBSXTG-5HPacD 802.11at POE doesn't work either.
that one should work with the crossover cable, at least it works with all the switches we tested. which one do you use?

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:03 pm
by nz_monkey
It looks like 802.3af support only works with specific type of switches. We will remove all reference to 802.3af in brochures and elsewhere, as currently it looks like it will not work with all devices. We will publish a list of supported switches in the Wiki
Will there be a further revision of the mAP and cAP with working 802.3af ?

We want to deploy these powered by HP, Cisco, Juniper and Extreme switches. None of which can currently power the mAP :(

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:58 am
by coylh
I tried Cisco 2960S (at) and Cisco 3750G (af only).

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:16 pm
by nbsn
I tried two different cabling seq.
Note, The left number 1-8 is standard POE switch. I tested using Cisco 3560CG POE switch.

1st
1 <-> 3
2 <-> 6
3 <-> 1
4 <-> 7
5 <-> 8
6 <-> 2
7 <-> 4
8 <-> 5

2nd
1 <-> 3
2 <-> 6
3 <-> 1
4 <-> 4
5 <-> 5
6 <-> 2
7 <-> 7
8 <-> 8

The 1st is workable for CRS109. but both did not work for mAP.

Is there any one who has successful power up mAP using 802.3af POE switch?

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:11 pm
by normis
I already wrote above, that we have removed all references to 802.3af because doe to a desing flaw, active PoE is mostly not supported. It works only on a few very specific devices, so in general it is safe to say that mAP doesn't support 802.3af in this revision

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:30 pm
by Kraklol
Will Mikrotik refund/give a solution/exchange the gear for people who bought them specifically for their said 802.3af/at support ?

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:02 pm
by Firerouter
:( Ordered and installed a Poe switch last week just for the mAP and cAP that i have received today. I have been trying to get it to work for hours thinking my cabling was incorrect. Also the cAP does not seem to work with 802.3af. My POE 802.3af IP camera's work when plugging them into the switch. The cAP show's no signs of life using the same cable.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:34 am
by zennik
:( Ordered and installed a Poe switch last week just for the mAP and cAP that i have received today. I have been trying to get it to work for hours thinking my cabling was incorrect. Also the cAP does not seem to work with 802.3af. My POE 802.3af IP camera's work when plugging them into the switch. The cAP show's no signs of life using the same cable.

I've tried the MAP and the CAP, neither support proper 802.3af, as stated above.
In fact, I'm going to try and get my hands on both CRS models that claim to have 802.3af support because I doubt they properly support it either. The only device MT makes, that I'm aware of, that properly supports 802.3af, is their 803.af to 24v passive converter.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:49 am
by pizzulicchio
i have bought 2 mAP2 because they was annunced as 802.3af compliant... i have tested alot with my poe switch Cisco 3560G-POE ... and today i have found this topic into the forum...

To delete the 802.3af support from web site's description is not the solution to solve the problem for you customers, mikrotik...

how it's possbile to be refunded ?
i have bought this AP mainly for this feature!!!
very very disappointed....

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:02 pm
by dcosgrove
Not to defend Mikrotik but as an option you can power any of their passive PoE devices using 802.3af compliant switch if you stack a TL-POE10R & RBGPOE together. Yes this will cost you about 30$ but you can use any device, not just the mAP. Again, I am not defending them yanking the printed claims of this device but if your hopes and dreams are crushed and you need this solution there are alternate paths to achieve your goals.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:04 am
by coylh
The current product catalog (http://download2.mikrotik.com/2014-Q3Q4.pdf) still claims 802.3 POE compatibility:
map.PNG

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:23 pm
by cmit
C'mon guys! It's christmas so it's time for some wishful thinking....

PLEASE do put a REAL 802.3af/at design in all future RouterBOARD products! Yes, this will probably make the hardware a few bucks more expensive. So what?

Deploying RouterBOARD Wifi APs in bigger installations (read: industry, business) is more or less impossible by now.

Customers ASK for REAL 802.3af/at support. Nobody wants all those wall warts spread over the building. And you don't really expect installers to slam a bucket full of power supplies and passive PoE injectors into a 19" cabinet? Right below the 802.3af capable switch?

So PLEASE take the challenge and let the hardware designers do some real standard conform 802.3af power supply circuitry into future products...

Season's greetings to everbody, ho ho ho!

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:36 pm
by meconet
Yes, real 802.3af/at support is something we request since years for all RouterBOARDs. Hope MT will change it ASAP for new and also existing models.

Regards & peacefull time
Lutz

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:29 pm
by thomasholbech
I have now testet 3 different POE switches
HP 2626
Linksys LGS 124 P
ZYXEL GS1900-24HP
None of those work.

The only switch that does work is the Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch.

I have spend several of man hours on this issue, and am very disappointed in MT.
I cant even find the promised list of working switched in the Wiki or anywhere else.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:41 pm
by normis
mAP doesn't support 802.3af. This information was incorrectly reported when device was not for sale yet, but we change it in the product page and PDF files. The information could still be incorrect in some other webpages that we don't control. Printed catalogs can also not be changed, unfortunately.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:26 am
by gth
Who can I speak to regarding RMA authorisation based on missing PoE support? I have 3 x mAP devices to return.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:03 am
by normis
Who can I speak to regarding RMA authorisation based on missing PoE support? I have 3 x mAP devices to return.
The device was never sold as having 802.3af. The mistake was in earlier brochures, before we started to offer this device. It does have Passive PoE support as it says in the brochure. I'm sorry that you mistook this device for 802.3af compatible. You can talk to the seller about returning them.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:36 pm
by nkourtzis
(Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:56 pm) It looks like 802.3af support only works with specific type of switches. We will remove all reference to 802.3af in brochures and elsewhere, as currently it looks like it will not work with all devices. We will publish a list of supported switches in the Wiki
Wasn't the mAP on sale in Oct 15, when you, Normis, said that Mikrotik would (so apparently this had not been done by that time) remove all reference to 802.3af support?

Another let-down, hardware-wise, from once innovative and pioneering Mikrotik. And one that shows inadequate pre-production testing and maybe not quite responsible marketing. As a Mikrotik user and mAP owner, I am very sorry about that.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:17 am
by gth
The device was never sold as having 802.3af. The mistake was in earlier brochures, before we started to offer this device. It does have Passive PoE support as it says in the brochure. I'm sorry that you mistook this device for 802.3af compatible. You can talk to the seller about returning them.
Please don't insult me by saying I imagined the 802.3af capability all on my own. The device was sold with 802.3af capability being advertised. It is still being advertised as such! You can see at the URL below where it literally states, " Any type PoE input 802.3af* and 802.3at*"
http://shop.duxtel.com.au/product_info. ... cts_id=337

You can debate those little asterisks all you like, but as this thread has shown - and by your own admission - the devices cannot work with 802.3af networking equipment.

Really disappointing that you'd let merchants misrepresent your products in this way. Being indirectly forced to buy the POE adapter device, just to get the mAP device working with the advertised capability feels like I was scammed. In Australia this is called Third Line Forcing and is very much against consumer trade practice laws.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:24 am
by oOk4o
I've tried to power up mAP using PoE in catalyst 2960, Cisco ASA 5505 and Extreme Summit x440. No effect. mAP didn't work. I've tried to power up Cisco phone, Cisco AP 1140, Motorola Ap 6511, noname IP phone by mAP (eth2) port. In this case PoE out led is solid RED and there is no effect on connected device. Devices didn't work. Due to information in this topic PoE in mAP works only with mikrotik devices? Will this issue solved in future releases of OS or it is a hardware specific?

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:43 am
by normis
Due to hardware issue, mAP can only be powered from Passive PoE injector, not from 802.3af source. When we planned to make the mAP and announced it, we though this will be supported, but we had to remove it from the feature list because of a hardware incompatibility.

We plan to make 802.3af compatible devices in the future, but current mAP is not one of them

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:04 pm
by oOk4o
Due to hardware issue, mAP can only be powered from Passive PoE injector, not from 802.3af source. When we planned to make the mAP and announced it, we though this will be supported, but we had to remove it from the feature list because of a hardware incompatibility.

We plan to make 802.3af compatible devices in the future, but current mAP is not one of them
Ok, it seems to be clear with passive PoE. And what about powering divice connected to mAP (eth2)? For example Cisco Phone or Hikvision camera? There is solid red LED and nothing more. Device connected to mAP not rising. In this case mAP is powered by "24V 0.8A power adapter" that was in box. Or this scenario also will work only with PoE injector?
Thx.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:11 pm
by troffasky
Cisco phone will want 802.3af PoE [ie, 48VAC]. mAP2n will not supply that.

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:41 am
by dash
I think I have found a 24-port POE switch with Mikrotik compatibility "Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 24 - ES-24-500W".

It supports the following POE pinouts:
POE+ IEEE 802.3af/at (Pins 1, 2+; 3, 6- )
24VDC Passive PoE (Pins 4, 5+; 7, 8- )

Bei der Verwendung von passiven POE-Geräten, muss PoE über das Interface aktiviert werden, damit die Geräte mit Strom versorgt werden

Just for those that need more than 4 POE power sources that e.g. a RB260S provides...

Re: mAP 802.3af support

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:37 am
by joshuachaw
Hi,

I tried many poe switches and can't power up Cap 2n. But this POE switch from 3COM can

3Com Baseline Plus Switch 2426-PWR 3CBLSF26PWRH.

I used TPLINK SF10008P and need to use cross cable to power on.