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Advice needed

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:55 pm
by ezyclie

I am having some job issue due to the company performance very low and having pay cut. So I am planning to open small bussiness by providing cheap WiFi service for low income people. I have some experiences with Mikrotik hotspot and configuration but have no idea about Mikrotik/Routerboard for PtMP hardware. Please help to advice what hardware that i have to use like antenna, Radio, router, etc if I want so have 300m-600m coverage.

OOT: What is the supported CCR1016-12G RAM/DDR speed?

Thanks in advance

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:07 pm
by ezyclie
Hi Again,

What do you think about my hardware selection for my small ISP
1. 1 Router, Routerboard CCR1016-12G
2. 3 Sectoral Antenna, AirMax Base Station AM-2G15-120
4. 3 Access point, RocketM2

Can it reach 300-600m coverage and 2000 users?

Alie T

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:07 pm
by Quindor
This is a little bit a too simplistic way to think about this type of setup.

2000 users with 3 radio's? No way.... there just isn't enough airtime, especially on 2.4Ghz. Why use 2.4Ghz at all? If building a new PtmP I would certainly go the 5Ghz AC route!

The CCR1016-12G can handle lots of traffic, but shaping on a CCR can load it pretty heavily and some types of queues are still single threaded I believe (so do not scale with the cores).

Also, you are combining Ubiquiti equipment with routerboard equipment and while that works it might not be ideal in this situation. I think it would be better to still use the Ubiquiti sector antenna combined with the newer netboxes from Routerboard. They both use the same connectors I believe.

300m - 600m is no problem with the sectors, but it depends on the client device talking back. If this is also a routerboard/ubiquiti device, sure that can work (Depends on line of sight, fresnel, etc.). If we are talking about phones or laptops and such devices, again, no away.

All in all, building something like you need to take a lot of factors into account. It's certainly possible, but be carefull! :)

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:13 am
by ezyclie
Thanks for your reply.

My intention is to provide very cheap internet connection for low income people inside/outside their house/building. I have couple of problems when trying 5GZ here:
* Some Android phone unable to connect or even see the SSID
* There is no Routerboard/Ubiquity AC product yet here in Jakarta. Mikrotik support please help to confirm this if you guys already selling it in Jakarta, Indonesia

With these problems I made decision to go 2.4GHZ, please correct me if I am wrong.

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:38 am
by jarda
For your links use 5GHz. For end device connection use 2GHz.

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:32 pm
by WirelessRudy
2000 users in a 300-600mtr range? That sounds like a market place or festival or congress centre.
I see you are aiming at mobile users with 2,4Ghz radio's (smart phones, tablets, laptops etc.) Since 2,4Ghz is the standard here this is where you have to go for.
But since 200 devices in reach of AP (NOT using traffic, just associated) already stretches most hardware to its limit we still talk at least 10 AP's.
Since you only have 3 none-overlapping channels available AND you need more AP's anyway you have to start working with several small cells.
Best to work now is with omni antennas and not too big a cell to reduce interferences as much as possible.
But now you need a network on top of these AP's to server them and connect them back to the main internet connection. This has to be build in 5Ghz.

The whole picture you are giving us is basically very complicated and as a result of that you can forget to build the 'poor man's internet'. It's going to be a expensive project...

The only other way you can try is indeed to setup one 3 sector AP that gives reach to your zone of interest, but never expect more than 30-50 competitive users at the same time.
Don't expect too much signal penetration inside buildings. The use of the Airmax antenna (I am not a fan of these, there promise much more than they deliver...) implicates they have to be relative low 'shooting over its users' but that immediately degreases their angle to shoot into buildings from 'above'.

Don't think too light about all this. A failure and loss of money is just around the corner.... :?

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:24 pm
by cdiedrich
I absolutely agree with WirelessRudy.

And I strongly advise you to also deploy 5GHz channels.
Presuming that about maybe 20% of your clients have 5GHz-capable clients, it's already 400 clients which will free 2.4GHz air time for others.

I personally don't see a single reason for going to ac. I'd rather keep the channels (and data rates) small, so client's connection stability will increase, there are less fallbacks and you keep your air as free as possible.

Mount your APs (as WirelessRudy said, minimum ten, better 20) as high as possible, ensuring the client devices have a more or less clear LoS to the APs.
Use high-gain antennas and lower TX power as much as possible to reliably segment your dispersion area into cells, not interfering with each other.
Deploy as many channels as possible.

Good luck!

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:50 pm
by Quindor
In other words, what we are trying to tell you. Do not build what you are thinking of building for you intented purpose, it will NOT work. You cannot connect clients in such a way.

Maybe you could use a central 5Ghz AC distribution tower with the mentioned sectors and then setup cells with lower powered omni's on 2.4Ghz like discussed above. Each omni will need a receiving 5Ghz AC point-to-point radio/routerboard with connected to it a 2.4Ghz Omni radio/routerboard and antenna. Don't use too high a Dbi on that omni because the higher the Dbi, the lower your vertical spread will be, look up antenna properties first! Higher Dbi antenna's go further, but for close by, they are not wide enough!

Anyway, in a nutshell, do A LOT more research before attempting anything like this. You will need a central distributuion tower/method and then you will need an receiver at 5Ghz and a 2.4Ghz omni per 20 people or so. The 20 is also a guess, it all depends on materials used in the houses, population density, walls, etc. This will likely mean a 50x costs that you where first looking at.

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:37 pm
by ezyclie
Hi guys!

Thanks for all the replies, really helpfull. Can you please recommend good 5ghz/2.4ghz routerboard AP for each cell?

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:07 am
by ezyclie
I just tried EnGenius ENS202EXT, its really powerfull PtMP outdoor AP, I can still surf and watch Youtube from 450m without lag

Re: Advice needed

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:42 am
by WirelessRudy
I just tried EnGenius ENS202EXT, its really powerfull PtMP outdoor AP, I can still surf and watch Youtube from 450m without lag
Well, first of all this is a MikrtoTik site. Not a promotion site for other vendors...
Secondly, many brands haver very powerfull outdoor AP's for PtMP. And almost every proper working outdoor AP is able to make you watch youtube and at the same time surfing at 450mtrs distance.
Your statement has no value in deciding if an antenna is good or not.

"I need to travel from Paris to Copenhagen; Can anybody give me a recommendation for a good transport means to use?" your answer would be; "I just tried the latest motorbike. It's a really powerfull bike. I can still eat a sandwich and look at the pretty girls even if I walk 2 meters beside my bike..." :(