Community discussions

 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:39 pm

Hi friends.

I want to full covering wifi signal in 4500 Square meters for smartphones hotspot. my question is how many device need for mesh networking and which routerboard model is recommend ?
Snap1.jpg
thanks
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
Quared
Trainer
Trainer
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:29 am
Location: Central Europe

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:18 pm

Hello,

from my experience and point of view:

Your request cannot be answered based on this little information available.

Planning on a map may be a first approach but NEVER covers natural obstacles (buildings, trees) and also no influences by other wireless systems nearby.

The most appropriate way to get a "somewhat-real" impression about conditions and AP-locations in this case might be placing some APs in the designated location and "heatmap" the area, which has to be covered.

greets
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:26 pm

It will also depend on how you can mount them.
E.g. in the center of the park you could mount 4 units with 90deg sector antenna each covering 1/4 of
the park and you would not need mesh network (this would be an advantage).
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:49 pm

Hello,

from my experience and point of view:

Your request cannot be answered based on this little information available.

Planning on a map may be a first approach but NEVER covers natural obstacles (buildings, trees) and also no influences by other wireless systems nearby.

The most appropriate way to get a "somewhat-real" impression about conditions and AP-locations in this case might be placing some APs in the designated location and "heatmap" the area, which has to be covered.

greets
thanks for answering
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:53 pm

It will also depend on how you can mount them.
E.g. in the center of the park you could mount 4 units with 90deg sector antenna each covering 1/4 of
the park and you would not need mesh network (this would be an advantage).
thank you for reply
I think all mikrotik sector antenna is 5GHz but some of smartphones in my location has 2.4 GHz wifi.
what about Netmetal 2 ? for example use 4 netmetal2 in corners of the park
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:23 pm

It will always require experimentation. But note that mesh networking is going to cut into your
performance because you use the same radio bandwidth both for user access and interlinking.
Cabling to each unit (to a central router/switch where your internet connection is) is always going
to work better. So try to plan your access points so that this is feasible, even when you need to
change other things for that (like antenna pattern as I suggested, metal comes with an omni antenna
but you can use sector antennas from other manufacturers as well)
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:08 pm

It will always require experimentation. But note that mesh networking is going to cut into your
performance because you use the same radio bandwidth both for user access and interlinking.
Cabling to each unit (to a central router/switch where your internet connection is) is always going
to work better. So try to plan your access points so that this is feasible, even when you need to
change other things for that (like antenna pattern as I suggested, metal comes with an omni antenna
but you can use sector antennas from other manufacturers as well)
thanks. and final question: is Sector antenna better than omni for smartphones in max distance ?
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:17 pm

The relevance of a sector antenna is not that it would cover more distance, but that you have all
the access points at the same place so you can wire them all at once and are not tempted to use
inferior concepts like mesh networking.
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:21 pm

The relevance of a sector antenna is not that it would cover more distance, but that you have all
the access points at the same place so you can wire them all at once and are not tempted to use
inferior concepts like mesh networking.
about mesh network: I mean Roaming all AP's together for example roaming 10 RB951Ui together
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7601
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:52 am

Use sxt2 and sxt5 or similar sectors with at least level 4 license as ap in the center. Bridge them together and use the same ssid. Clients will roam and stay connected.
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7601
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:55 am

If you can run wires around, putting these APs into corners would be much better than in the middle as they will be far away from each other so there will not be a risk of mutual interference. Keep tx power as low as possible.
 
User avatar
macgaiver
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1717
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 5:57 pm
Location: Sol III, Sol system, Sector 001, Alpha Quadrant

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:34 am

You need to change your thinking, you need to start from weakest point in this setup - as it is park, it is client devices - mobile phones and tablets. You need to find out what is average distance they can transmit data back to AP.

remember that Wi-Fi communication is bidirectional, not only phone need to see Access Point, but also AP need to hear phone.

I had one similar setup once, we had to use every other light-poll in the park with small Omni wireless device, now i would probably use something like wAP ac, using 5Ghz for backbone and 2,4Ghz for clients.
With great knowledge comes great responsibility, because of ability to recognize id... incompetent people much faster.
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: RE: Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:10 pm

You need to change your thinking, you need to start from weakest point in this setup - as it is park, it is client devices - mobile phones and tablets. You need to find out what is average distance they can transmit data back to AP.

remember that Wi-Fi communication is bidirectional, not only phone need to see Access Point, but also AP need to hear phone.

I had one similar setup once, we had to use every other light-poll in the park with small Omni wireless device, now i would probably use something like wAP ac, using 5Ghz for backbone and 2,4Ghz for clients.
Thanks for reply

I want to do this with 5 basebox 2 + 9dBi antenna for roaming network I think it can works.
The tree's in this park is small

What is your opinion ??
Snap3.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7601
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:20 pm

It can work if the clients will be able to deliver their signal to the APs. Omnidirectional antennas need to be put closer to the center while panel antennas could be more on the edge.
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:30 pm

It can work if the clients will be able to deliver their signal to the APs. Omnidirectional antennas need to be put closer to the center while panel antennas could be more on the edge.
I am really confused for this project :(
what can I do now ? moving omni antennas to the center of the park ? like blow picture
Snap4.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7601
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:51 pm

Yes. Exactly like this. Put the omni antennas not higher than 2m.
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:06 pm

Yes. Exactly like this. Put the omni antennas not higher than 2m.
thank you very much for helping me.
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:22 pm

Yes. Exactly like this. Put the omni antennas not higher than 2m.
sorry for replying

Can I use WDS Static Mesh in this project ?
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7601
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:00 pm

It is not smart to use the same radios for distribution and for clients connection at once. Rather avoid the wds mesh and use cables to connect APs to the uplink or use another radios (5g preferably) for the interconnection.
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:57 am

Finally I build my networks with five BASEBOX2 and 2 RB951Ui in WDS Dynamic MESH and worked like a charm :)
Screenshot (32).jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7601
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:57 am

Very nice achievement. What number of concurrent users with total traffic do you see?
 
User avatar
ErfanDL
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Topic Author
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:13 am
Location: IRAN
Contact:

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:17 am

Very nice achievement. What number of concurrent users with total traffic do you see?
first, Thank you very much for helping me in this project
about 48 smartphones for internet hotspot and 10 smartphones for VOIP Asterisk ( installed in one of Basebox2 with OpenWRT METAROUTER ) the total bandwidth for internet is 170 Mb/s.
 
jarda
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 7601
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Re: How many device need for wifi full coverage?

Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:42 am

Good job.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 16 guests