Community discussions

 
WirelessRudy
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3078
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:15 am

Yeah, but one of these "other vendors" show us perfectly that the most important part here is AP side. They reuse existing old SXTs or NS5's and make users happy for a time being with speeds up to 30-50M per client and with sectors toping at 120-150M without visiting their households. They simply browse and don't feel any shortage of bandwidth. Even IPTV/OTT became possible for private houses. Replacing equipment at AP sites are far more simplier and cheaper than visiting thousands of customers and buying them new CPEs. Even gradually replacing CPEs to other vendor wouldn't be a problem, if there only were enough spectrum to operate both brands.

We've already started slowly moving to different eq, but still have thousands of SXT's (Lite5, ac, sq), SEXTANT's, QRTs, DynaDishes operating in our network. I still thank MikroTik very much for keeping their legacy wireless usable that long. And if they somehow miraculously developed something similar to other vendors AP-side equipment with similar capabilities, RouterOS alone would hold their loyal base from certain WISPs. I simply can't stand these web based GUI's or CLI's from UBNT, ePMP, etc.. and I like having unified solutions with environment I'm familiar with. So MT, please hire some workforce, reverse engineer some products in the market and revive the very reason you've once risen to where you are now - wireless.
Could have been my words! 8)

And back to the topic
And by the way, the introduction of TDD ratio setting, was the last major improvement we've witnessed recently. Dynamic 80/20 increased wireless DL traffic up to 20%. That's great, considering that it only took software update and some tweaking. Initial tests of NV2 improvements with high number of P2MP clients haven't showed anything appreciable, but I'll do some more testing.
I've done a 28 client P2MP network yesterday. Overal AP's throughput doubled, single clients had higher throughput and two really poor performing client were made to 'moderate performing' clients. What did I do? Upgrade ROS to 6.42rc49, upgrade firmware, set fixed download ratio 75/25 and set hw-retries to 3 (always used 15...) So far on the combined upgrade/tweaking good result!
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
User avatar
Egate
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:43 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:41 am

Can also try setting TDMA Period size to 3ms instead of auto.
Happy days. :-)
 
User avatar
TomjNorthIdaho
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Topic Author
Posts: 979
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:25 pm
Location: North Idaho
Contact:

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:48 pm

Don't forget to play with NV2 Radius.

If all clients are less than 10 and you have a NV2 Radius of 30 , it will run a bit slower.

I try to set a NV2 Radius setting of furthest client + 10 percent. Thus if my furthest client is 20 , I would use 22. If my furthest client is less than 10, then I will use a setting of 10.

Also - something I have wondered about but have not tested .... Is a longer nv2 pre-shared key slower than a small/short/tiny pre-shared key ???

Also - Don't fck with the Tx Power settings on the AP or Client Mikroti devices !!!
When you increase TX power , you also increase signal distortation which always results in a slower rate connection.
Keep all Tx Power settings at default.
The only exception - only exception - only exception is if you only want to connect at the slowest wireless rate and stay low & slow.

With thousands of wireless clients and hundreds of APs since the early 2000's , I am finally getting a hand on what works and what blows....

FYI - nothing beats fiber :)

North Idaho Tom Jones
 
WirelessRudy
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3078
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:00 pm

Don't forget to play with NV2 Radius.

If all clients are less than 10 and you have a NV2 Radius of 30 , it will run a bit slower.

I try to set a NV2 Radius setting of furthest client + 10 percent. Thus if my furthest client is 20 , I would use 22. If my furthest client is less than 10, then I will use a setting of 10.

Also - something I have wondered about but have not tested .... Is a longer nv2 pre-shared key slower than a small/short/tiny pre-shared key ???

Also - Don't fck with the Tx Power settings on the AP or Client Mikroti devices !!!
When you increase TX power , you also increase signal distortation which always results in a slower rate connection.
Keep all Tx Power settings at default.
The only exception - only exception - only exception is if you only want to connect at the slowest wireless rate and stay low & slow.

With thousands of wireless clients and hundreds of APs since the early 2000's , I am finally getting a hand on what works and what blows....

FYI - nothing beats fiber :)

North Idaho Tom Jones
Indeed, set the radius.
Good question about the length of the NV2 password. I don't know how many times this is syncd between devices. If this is for each frame.... pff that could make a difference.
Should try on a link with, and without NV2 passphrase....

Power setting only use to decrease power. If an AP has many clients connected with -50dB one client that connects with -30dB gets better change of communicating (in 802.11 RTS/CTS mode). I don't know if this is true in NV2 (don't think so). But it is not recommended to have a client hit the AP with more then -30dB signal anyway. It overpowers the AP's receiver circuits (they say. I never had seen problems with even -15dB link. All I think to see is maybe less throughput. But no scientific measurements done here....)
So yeah, if a client is that close to an AP that the signal comes in with better then -30 I would reduce the power. (It would be nice if Mikrotik could build some power limited in the software, like Mimosa has.)

FYI - We beat fiber in price! :)
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
User avatar
Egate
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 10:43 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:58 pm

We are rural, don’t have fiber yet. :( Actually our WISP has, but at a price that bleeds you dry. :D
We used to run nv2 without password and then started running into problems when the competitors also started using nv2, we started using password. Did not find any significant change in speed. Also regarding distance, since you cannot link much more than 30 clients and radio travel basically at the speed of light. Doubt there will be much difference in the distance setting. However, what we did find which wasn’t mentioned before, if you have one client on the AP with interference or signal above -60 dB, you will bring down the AP throughput for all clients. Bit strange for TDMA, but guising allocating more time slots to client re transmitting packages.
Happy days. :-)
 
WirelessRudy
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3078
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:56 am

We are rural, don’t have fiber yet. :( Actually our WISP has, but at a price that bleeds you dry. :D
We used to run nv2 without password and then started running into problems when the competitors also started using nv2, we started using password. Did not find any significant change in speed. Also regarding distance, since you cannot link much more than 30 clients and radio travel basically at the speed of light. Doubt there will be much difference in the distance setting. However, what we did find which wasn’t mentioned before, if you have one client on the AP with interference or signal above -60 dB, you will bring down the AP throughput for all clients. Bit strange for TDMA, but guising allocating more time slots to client re transmitting packages.
Exactly that last is something they said to have improved now in the latest rc!
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
User avatar
TomjNorthIdaho
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Topic Author
Posts: 979
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:25 pm
Location: North Idaho
Contact:

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:02 am

- In general , I've found the average sweet-spot for signal strength to be in the range of -45 to -60 (-50 normally works best on average)

- On an AP with many clients , it often takes only a single weak/bad client ACTIVE connection to degrade all clients on an AP.
Example:
... 5 to 20 clients connected with good strong signals , great CCQ , great connect rates
... 1 (or more clients) connected with medium to weak signals , lower or low CCQ , low/slower connect rates...
... Peak usage hours & everybody watching Netflix (trying to stream 3 meg up to 15 meg)

The weak - low CCQ - low rate-connected clients also trying to watch Netfilx may experience wireless retries. Also - because these weak/poor client connections are connected at a slower wireless connect-rate , they require more/longer time periods to receive and transmit (client to AP data). The larger time periods for these weak clients takes away AP air time that the AP would normally be using for everybody else also watching Netflix. Thus , all active clients begin to suffer - and possibly even more re-tries and more Random-Early-Detects are created for everybody , which again results in a cascading downward slope to even poorer AP communications to/from wireless Clients.

So - note ... you can't go by signal strength alone. It is possible for everybody to have great signal strengths , but ... if one remote Client has interference caused by a customer-owned in-house wireless AP , then the CCQ will be lower resulting in some wireless packet retries between the AP and Clients. Which again , starts to result in more Random-Early-Detects and more retries system wide. So - also look at your CCQs when under peak usage times when everybody is busy. CCQ might look great when everybody is idle - but it will change when the wireless network starts to get busy and/or saturated.

Just some of my thoughts ...
North Idaho Tom Jones
 
WirelessRudy
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3078
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:50 pm

- In general , I've found the average sweet-spot for signal strength to be in the range of -45 to -60 (-50 normally works best on average)

- On an AP with many clients , it often takes only a single weak/bad client ACTIVE connection to degrade all clients on an AP.
Example:
... 5 to 20 clients connected with good strong signals , great CCQ , great connect rates
... 1 (or more clients) connected with medium to weak signals , lower or low CCQ , low/slower connect rates...
... Peak usage hours & everybody watching Netflix (trying to stream 3 meg up to 15 meg)

The weak - low CCQ - low rate-connected clients also trying to watch Netfilx may experience wireless retries. Also - because these weak/poor client connections are connected at a slower wireless connect-rate , they require more/longer time periods to receive and transmit (client to AP data). The larger time periods for these weak clients takes away AP air time that the AP would normally be using for everybody else also watching Netflix. Thus , all active clients begin to suffer - and possibly even more re-tries and more Random-Early-Detects are created for everybody , which again results in a cascading downward slope to even poorer AP communications to/from wireless Clients.

So - note ... you can't go by signal strength alone. It is possible for everybody to have great signal strengths , but ... if one remote Client has interference caused by a customer-owned in-house wireless AP , then the CCQ will be lower resulting in some wireless packet retries between the AP and Clients. Which again , starts to result in more Random-Early-Detects and more retries system wide. So - also look at your CCQs when under peak usage times when everybody is busy. CCQ might look great when everybody is idle - but it will change when the wireless network starts to get busy and/or saturated.

Just some of my thoughts ...
North Idaho Tom Jones
Yet again I can confirm all this. Since a year we really started to realize how important it is everybody has good signal and preferably good CCQ.
Now standard practise is we basically don't accept clients with less then -60dB more but actually look for -50's.
It depends a bit on the AP too. We have one AP with 8 clients but one has only -70dBm even with a 27,5dBi antena. Not ideal but its manageable.

Another AP has 28 clients on we still have one that has a poor connection. Signal -55 but poor CCQ. Although scan doesn't show any channels near, there must be something that interferes. This client definitely needs more investigation to solve the issue. Especial since to up to half a year ago it all worked fine for him.....

Getting better CCQ's is also achieved by setting some fixed connection rates only, make sure all units can get the ones you set and have at least one lower and we set two with the same rate for the sigle stream. Some CPE's have better stable signal on a signle stream than with both.
And by setting the mcs rates fixed the CCQ's are much higher. But I am still not 100% convinced is this indeed a show of better links, or is it just optic illusion since the rates jump up and down less and thus less resends only because of this...
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
User avatar
TomjNorthIdaho
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Topic Author
Posts: 979
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:25 pm
Location: North Idaho
Contact:

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:10 pm

Speaking of connection rates and CCQ ...

When you reset/reboot an AP - or something that causes all wireless clients to disconnect and re-connected , the CCQ & signal strengths & signal-to-noise & connection rates do NOT give you a true picture of how well all of your client connections are to the AP. - - - Here is the reason why:

- When a client (or many or all clients) connect to an AP , the clients will normally connect at the basic-rate (slowest supported) connection rate. Depending on the wireless protocols , this could be a 6 Meg Tx/Rx wireless connection rate.
- All wireless cards (in general) have a stronger/more-power/higher-db transmit power at the slowest supported connection basic-rate. Thus , at first , thus when a client first connects the Client and AP have stronger more-powerful transmit power. The slowest basic connection rate can easily be 10 db or more (stronger) than a connection at the fastest wireless rate possible.
- All wireless cards (in general) have a better receive sensitivity at the slowest supported connection basic-rate. This results in the wireless card in being better able to listen and receive (aka , pick out a weak signal in the background RF noise). The slowest basic connection rate might receive 10 db or more (better) than a connection at the fastest wireless rate possible.
----- So far , my point is that initial connection rates may look good and show decent Signal-to-Noise ratio , decent CCQ , strong signal strengths on all new fresh connections.
- As the packet count (bandwidth) starts to increase from traffic across wire wireless link , the wireless cards will begin to shift connection rates to faster connection rates and then again later shift connection rates to even faster connection rates. Almost every time a wireless connection rate increases , the wireless card receive sensitivity will get worse (weaker) and the wireless cars transmit power will also be lower (weaker).
- Wireless cards and wireless protocols will auto up-shift connected rates after a fixed number of wireless packets make it through the wireless network. This will continually auto-repeat until they either hit the fastest supported connection rate -or- there is an error or errors at the now faster wireless connection rate. When this happens , there is a packet retry (re-transmit) period that occurs. When the packet retry (re-transmit) count hits a certain number , the connection rate will auto lower (decrease) to a slower wireless connection rate.
- Often , client connection rates may remain at a slow (basic rate) , until the wireless client actually passes traffic on the wireless network.
----- My point I am trying to establish here is that on busy active wireless networks , all connection rates will ramp up to the fastest reliable wireless connection rate , then periodicall auto rate-shift one speed faster and auto-rate shift back one speed slower. This will continue. To you , all you see is the established connection rate after some wireless bandwidth. (((Note - each time there is a rate shift , there is a slight delay in the AP-to-Client & Client-to-AP data stream.
- Note , that when a wireless connection rate increases, the channel width may also increase. So what started as an initial 20-MHz wide channel width could end up with a much faster connection rate using 40-MHz, 80-MHz or even 160-MHz channel widths. These additional channel widths also need clean/clear/low-noise on those additional frequency bands. ((( Example - check out Ce vs Ceee channel width requirements ))) ((( You can kinda think of the "C" as an initial 20-MHz wide channel and each "e" as an additional 20-MHz channel width. ))) As connection rates auto-increase and fall back , different channel widths "e" may be added or removed from the wireless connection.

In a Mikrotik there are some settings available to configure the wireless cards. They include:
-- Basic-Rate
-- Maximum supported connection speed
-- Retry settings (You may want to consider testing how this effects the throughput of your network)
-- Disconnect timeout settings
-- Channel width settings
-- and many other settings , including NV2

So , when investigating how well your wireless network is performing (AP to clients and clients to AP) , you should look/check during wireless peak usage hours when customer are placing the highest throughput demans on your wireless network. An O-Dark-30 wireless network configuration might look good when nobody is awake and using the network and suddenly horrible when everybody is doing everything at the same time.

If you use btest as a tool when testing a wireless network , consider running many btests at the same time to a large pool of connected wireless clients all at the same time on the AP. On multiple btests , set your up/down speeds for 75 percent traffic to a remote wireless customers (AP to customer) and 25 percent traffic from wireless customers (customer to AP).

Somewhat related - you might want to read up on "Random Early Detect" aka "RED".

I assume almost all of this is well known to most wireless/network engineers who have been around and have experience - however - if any of this information help anybody , then I feel good.

North Idaho Tom Jones
 
n21roadie
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 1886
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:36 pm
Location: Limerick,Ireland

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:12 pm

A very good post!
- In general , I've found the average sweet-spot for signal strength to be in the range of -45 to -60 (-50 normally works best on average)
Could this high signal level just having AGC type of circuit reduce the gain so as not to overload the input stages and this reduction also reduces interference?
- On an AP with many clients , it often takes only a single weak/bad client ACTIVE connection to degrade all clients on an AP.
Example:
... 5 to 20 clients connected with good strong signals , great CCQ , great connect rates
... 1 (or more clients) connected with medium to weak signals , lower or low CCQ , low/slower connect rates...
... Peak usage hours & everybody watching Netflix (trying to stream 3 meg up to 15 meg)
What is the best solution for that scenario, as I have clients signal from -55 to -74 I pick an the best average set AP data rates to suit all the connected clients, I suppose if spectrum allowed
have one AP for 50-60, another for 61-70, finally one for 71-74??
So - note ... you can't go by signal strength alone. It is possible for everybody to have great signal strengths , but ... if one remote Client has interference caused by a customer-owned in-house wireless AP , then the CCQ will be lower resulting in some wireless packet retries between the AP and Clients. Which again , starts to result in more Random-Early-Detects and more retries system wide. So - also look at your CCQs when under peak usage times when everybody is busy. CCQ might look great when everybody is idle - but it will change when the wireless network starts to get busy and/or saturated.

Just some of my thoughts ...
North Idaho Tom Jones
As regards interference, we must not forget in a unlicensed band that interference can be from any type of RF device transmitting in that band and not just 802.XX....WiFi only ?
I am somewhat bemused when I read users looking for WiFi spectrum analyzers, sure they will help for WiFi signals but if you have a serious interference issue you need the proper kit to trace and indentify?
 
WirelessRudy
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3078
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:14 am

As regards interference, we must not forget in a unlicensed band that interference can be from any type of RF device transmitting in that band and not just 802.XX....WiFi only ?
I am somewhat bemused when I read users looking for WiFi spectrum analyzers, sure they will help for WiFi signals but if you have a serious interference issue you need the proper kit to trace and indentify?
Hence we'd miss the spectral-history tool so dearly in the new 'ac' devices. Just a Wifi scan is only half the tool. I leave now at most of my AP's an old Omnitik just for the spectral scan. But we need to have such tool at the CPE too!
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
WirelessRudy
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3078
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:28 am

Speaking of connection rates and CCQ ...etc.......
North Idaho Tom Jones
Good explanatory post!
What we do now is squeezing CPE's as much as we can in a receive signal range no wider then 10dB apart and not higher then -60 / -65.
So if needed some clients get 24dbi CPE antena where others can do with a 12dBi. As long as we can bring most signals close to our goal.

Next thing is we do we look in a somewhat longer runningn P2MP network where users have been 'active' to see to what connection rates the algorithm sets the radios.
Then we know what rates we need to get at least the traffic we'd promise to the client. (If he has a 10Mb contract, we are aiming at a rate that can do at least 2,5 to 3 times that. So for 10Mb that should be at least mcs 9 or 10 (802.11 'n'). But if we see all CPE's maintain at least 11 or 12 we can even set these as long as the CCQ stays better then 80% on average.

We always set a block of at least 3 mcs rates for dual chain, and the same mcs rates but for single chain. Then we set a basic rate of 6 or 9 or 12mb so the antenna will always make a connections.
We found that it might take a bit more time to get to the higher rates when a unit has been down or rebooted but once 'alive' the rates stay more stable and thus the CCQ's better. (Each rate adaption up or down drops the link for a ms and thus during that time no data passes. It decreases de CCQ and slows the link a bit....

But to be honest, after 15 year in this business one of my most timely actions is still the testing and fine tuning of the ever changing wireless spectrum, hardware, interference, software and protocols PER P2MP network. And I have 40 that all need my attention...... You're simply never ready!
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
User avatar
TomjNorthIdaho
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Topic Author
Posts: 979
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:25 pm
Location: North Idaho
Contact:

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:47 am

a wish list of something I started to create - and even posted in these forums about - but nothing was ever finished

If I had the free time and many non-busy days , I would like to create this:

A Linux based computer - with expect scripts and shell programs and a simple database
In the database I would have:
- IP address of an AP
- IP addresses of all clients on that AP (or a sample pool of clients on that AP)

Then have the program connect to an AP and do the following:
-1, brief btest to every client (log the btest results)
-2, change the AP and sample client wireless settings (walk 1-by-1 through all combinations of frequency, retries, distance (nv2 cell radius), optional-wireless-protocol-802.11/nstream/nv2 , and possibly other wireless settings (on the client sample pool and the AP)
-3 perform a brief btest on each wireless setting and log the results
- give the Linux shell program a start time and a stop time (could be late O-Dark-30 -or- busy times of the day).


Then start the Linux shell program , let it run for hours or days or what-ever.
When finished return everything back to the way it was when finished or the stop-time occures
After all testing is completed , produce a file or document that shows the following:
--- combined btest throughput test results per wireless setting tested
--- average btest results per test
--- combined CCQ , and signal strengths and connection rates
--- average CCQ , and signal strengths and connection rates

Then with this information , you have the information to configure an AP/Client network for best throughput.

A single AP with a dozen or more clinents might take an hour or more.
100 APs with several hundred clients might take a week (give or take more weeks).

To do this by hand in-person is nearly impossible - but for a computer it is a simple repeating-looping task that will eventually deliver usefull information.

I started on this 10 years ago and never got it properly running/finished. I no longer even have the old code. My plan at the time was to make it freely available to all Mikrotik users.

Anybody up to writing the code and donating their work ??? - I am only a Linux shell / expect programmer ( The only real program language I actually know is the 30-year-old BASIC)

North Idaho Tom Jones
 
Raumaster
newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:18 am

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Sat May 19, 2018 5:11 pm

I wonder why this topic is not pinned above the others anymore? Are the improvements not really improvements or is there some kind of serious problem to be corrected in this version?

EDIT: Sorry, wrong topic! I was talking about the topic with the NV2 Improvements made in version 6.42.1. Where is it actually?
Last edited by Raumaster on Wed May 23, 2018 5:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
WirelessRudy
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3078
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Mon May 21, 2018 8:20 pm

I think these guys ever developed the 'radio mobile' or similar programs should do the next;

These programs give nice theoretical spectral scenery based upon standard atmospheric conditions, the geographical location and elevation of terrain combined with a database of some antena characteristics and power settings of radio's. All very theoretical, nothing more, nothing less...

Some minor defects in this programs are the existence yes or not of high buildings or other human high constructions and for instance the existence of vegetation.
(And do these programs differ between land and sea/water surfaces?)

But the biggest lack of these programs are the ability to add several towers with their radio emissions of interest (that give interference, like other operator's towers) and sectors etc. so the user can predict where which channel use or what kind of antenna would be best to give best results.
(Even when the competition is not willing to cooperate, all you need to do is scan a tower, at close range for frequencies, look what antennas they'd use (binoculairs!) and in what direction they work.)
If you could feed this info, together with all your towers, in a calculation model it should be an easy task for such program to show where what frequencies can be used/should be avoided.

I would die to have such a program. Now I don't even use Radio Mobile or similar since it can only tell me a theoretical 'reach' for a certain antena combination (master and client). Nice, but my brain already has that kind of info for about 75% of the cases.


But to come back on the topic; "Nv2-downlin-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase" .... I think there are serious problems indeed. We saw several vent these here on the forum but so far ample comments from MT's end.....
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
Raumaster
newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:18 am

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Wed May 23, 2018 5:11 am


But to come back on the topic; "Nv2-downlin-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase" .... I think there are serious problems indeed. We saw several vent these here on the forum but so far ample comments from MT's end.....
I apologize you guys. I was refering to the topic with the new NV2 Improvements made in version 6.42.x I posted my message above in the wrong topic... The topic I am talking about had been fixed for a while and then they took it out from the most important topics... Why?

Found it:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=132181&p=663086&hi ... nt#p663086

they've transfered it to the announcement forum...
 
pukstup
just joined
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:53 pm

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Sat May 26, 2018 7:53 am

.
Last edited by pukstup on Sat May 26, 2018 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
pukstup
just joined
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:53 pm

Re: Nv2-downlink-ratio - new huge bandwidth increase setting

Sat May 26, 2018 7:59 am

- In general , I've found the average sweet-spot for signal strength to be in the range of -45 to -60 (-50 normally works best on average)

- On an AP with many clients , it often takes only a single weak/bad client ACTIVE connection to degrade all clients on an AP.
Example:
... 5 to 20 clients connected with good strong signals , great CCQ , great connect rates
... 1 (or more clients) connected with medium to weak signals , lower or low CCQ , low/slower connect rates...
... Peak usage hours & everybody watching Netflix (trying to stream 3 meg up to 15 meg)

The weak - low CCQ - low rate-connected clients also trying to watch Netfilx may experience wireless retries. Also - because these weak/poor client connections are connected at a slower wireless connect-rate , they require more/longer time periods to receive and transmit (client to AP data). The larger time periods for these weak clients takes away AP air time that the AP would normally be using for everybody else also watching Netflix. Thus , all active clients begin to suffer - and possibly even more re-tries and more Random-Early-Detects are created for everybody , which again results in a cascading downward slope to even poorer AP communications to/from wireless Clients.

So - note ... you can't go by signal strength alone. It is possible for everybody to have great signal strengths , but ... if one remote Client has interference caused by a customer-owned in-house wireless AP , then the CCQ will be lower resulting in some wireless packet retries between the AP and Clients. Which again , starts to result in more Random-Early-Detects and more retries system wide. So - also look at your CCQs when under peak usage times when everybody is busy. CCQ might look great when everybody is idle - but it will change when the wireless network starts to get busy and/or saturated.

Just some of my thoughts ...
North Idaho Tom Jones
Yet again I can confirm all this. Since a year we really started to realize how important it is everybody has good signal and preferably good CCQ.
Now standard practise is we basically don't accept clients with less then -60dB more but actually look for -50's.
It depends a bit on the AP too. We have one AP with 8 clients but one has only -70dBm even with a 27,5dBi antena. Not ideal but its manageable.

Another AP has 28 clients on we still have one that has a poor connection. Signal -55 but poor CCQ. Although scan doesn't show any channels near, there must be something that interferes. This client definitely needs more investigation to solve the issue. Especial since to up to half a year ago it all worked fine for him.....

Getting better CCQ's is also achieved by setting some fixed connection rates only, make sure all units can get the ones you set and have at least one lower and we set two with the same rate for the sigle stream. Some CPE's have better stable signal on a signle stream than with both.
And by setting the mcs rates fixed the CCQ's are much higher. But I am still not 100% convinced is this indeed a show of better links, or is it just optic illusion since the rates jump up and down less and thus less resends only because of this...
How do you set fixed connection rates in nv2, wireless only-n?
I would like to tweak this to improve signal on some clients.


Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests