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normis
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60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:51 am

We have introduced PtM functionality in our wAP60G units (L4 license required), currently it supports up to 8 clients, more information here: https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Interface/W60G

If you have already upgraded one of your Wireless Wire devices to AP, and have tried more than one client, please post here your observations and experience. Photos of your setups also welcome.

If you have a Wireless Wire kit, we are also giving out free L4/AP license upgrades, more information here:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=129408
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:58 am

We have a test enviroment:

client 1: 97m
client 2: 105m
client 3: 200m wag60g in the focus of cambium450d prime focus parabola

with no rain signals are:

client 1: random from 60 to 80
client 2: random from 45 to 60
client 3: random from 50 to 100

we have some random disconnection from all clients also with light rain, rarely we have no disconnections with heavy rain. I can understand disconnection from the far away client but no from the close ones.

I have a PtP test link 100m very stable no drops since I have installed it.

Is it possibile driver problems in PtMP mode?
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:00 pm

I'm sure it will be resolved in v7 ;)
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:40 pm

I'm sure it will be resolved in v7 ;)
:lol:
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:21 pm

I'm sure it will be resolved in v7 ;)
That’s it!
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:34 pm

We have our own patent :P

Actually we make link for 850 meters with signal 40-60, at 500m we have signal 100-80, tomorrow we must test it for 1km and more :P

For NORMIS and MT Support: PLEASE MAKE LED SIGNAL IN STATUS PAGE !!!

Image

Please see attached, please make this ASAP!!!!
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:05 pm

can you share some pics about your hack? :-)

thank you Giuseppe
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:47 am

server8 - actually no :P
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:54 am

 
djvolt1942
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:58 am

Actually No :P

Link with this hack only for 300m distance and problem on windy/rain day all time :)

Our solution is finished.

Please check our website: http://siec.multimediahd.pl/60ghz#400

Products 300mm, 650mm and special wAP holder very soon.

At this time we preparing also Sector PtMP with special holder and housing for 120 degrees

Kind Regards
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:09 pm

Cool, What is the max range you can achieve?, is hard to align at 1km?
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:37 pm

With two persons and walkie talkie or phone it is not hard to align to 1000m, we were looking for the signal about 4min on the both side, first horizontal on both side left-right, because our solution have about 20 degrees, next vertical with precision to the centimeter and correct horizontal, perfect link have 60% signal and MCS 8, but when the weather broke down and it started raining with a snowstorm the signal was at 40% and MCS 7, but we had stable link and 300/300 data transfer :P

On 650m we were looking for about 1min more or less.

Tomorrow we'd like to do a 1550m test :D
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:48 pm

Glad to hear that you have managed to establish link with so far distances. but please keep in mind that these wAP units are targeted mainly for 100 m distances (full speed). All of the experiments mentioned within this topic has exceeded this distance.
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:14 pm

We have full speed 1Gbps Full Duplex on 400m :P 500/500 on 650m and 300/300 on 1000m, on 1000m we have 914Mbps but only in Half Duplex in both directions not simultaneously, after some modifications etc we would like to reach 1200m and 1500m. We use all the time original wAP...

Some peoples must have only stable link with 300/300 data transfer but with 0-1ms ping, because 5GHz is to noisy that AC does not make it :P
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:28 am

Anybody know if it's possible to make two separate p2p link with 4 wAP60G with two of them in close proximity?Or do they interfere with each other? Is there more than one channel to work with?
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:19 am

wAP have 3 channels: 58, 60 nd 62 GHz so is possible to make 3 PtP links that will not interfere with other.

Also is possible to make PtP link and this same channel but the links must be parallel and can not cross
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:24 pm

wAP have 3 channels: 58, 60 nd 62 GHz so is possible to make 3 PtP links that will not interfere with other.

Also is possible to make PtP link and this same channel but the links must be parallel and can not cross


Thanks. That's exactly the info I was looking for :-)
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:53 am

Our new test on our Sector 120 degree with special Shield and also Precision 300 Station [300mm with special precision holder to milimeter align HV] :P

3 points = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6c4JrmGkk0 [to show 120 degrees]
400m = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMWKk_TVtWw
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:10 am

In the movie I see nothing but a laptop on a field.
How much does the land cost in the area? I suspect you sell land, not equipment.
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:02 am

There is a test to show powerfull wAP as Sector 120 degree with station on 300mm bowl at distance ~300m, we made test product, but we dont show you yet :P

Presentations of this products will be soon...
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:21 am

We've deployed nearly 40 point-to-point pairs and things have been flawless. Reliability and performance is better than all other multipoint WiGig-based products we've tried, and at a fraction of the price.
We've also deployed a multipoint AP with 4 stations. Reliability is still solid, but latency and jitter do go up when more than one station connected. There also appears to be a hit in capacity for every station added. Running traffic generator tests between a point-to-point pair nets us over 960 Mbps full-duplex, but running a test against a single station of the 4, full-duplex speeds are just under 500 Mbps, dipping when the other stations are active. I've been assured there is a lot to be done in tuning the performance as these things are very complicated, and I look forward to seeing things improve with future firmware upgrades.
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:24 am

We've deployed nearly 40 point-to-point pairs and things have been flawless. Reliability and performance is better than all other multipoint WiGig-based products we've tried, and at a fraction of the price.
We've also deployed a multipoint AP with 4 stations. Reliability is still solid, but latency and jitter do go up when more than one station connected. There also appears to be a hit in capacity for every station added. Running traffic generator tests between a point-to-point pair nets us over 960 Mbps full-duplex, but running a test against a single station of the 4, full-duplex speeds are just under 500 Mbps, dipping when the other stations are active. I've been assured there is a lot to be done in tuning the performance as these things are very complicated, and I look forward to seeing things improve with future firmware upgrades.
Very useful post.
Can you clarify what you mean with; "I've been assured there is a lot to be done in tuning the performance as these things are very complicated"?
This is what MT crew told? Because in fact in the ROs there is not so much to be tuned (yet?) on these units. You can pick one of the 3 channels and set the SSID and master or station. That's it....

Due the high free space loss and directional characteristics 'same tower' interference is much lower then for instance with 5Ghz. Metrolinq states that an ample couple of meters separation and more then 45º angle between units makes them 'invincible' for each other. But what happens with units in close proximity where channels can be the same (only 3 available where ML has 4 channels) in relation to the 'beam forming'?

Already any experiences? Would different SSID be enough to prevent 60Ghz station to jump to another AP if this happens to be reachable due the beamforming and at the same channel?
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:57 pm

Working fine with up to 4 clients, then it need to be some done with FW, performance looses quickly.
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:11 pm

One AP with one client on 94 and the other at 108 meters. Each one along could have some 800Mbps download. If running both up and down we see some 1,4 - 1,5 Gb aggregated.
When tests are run from both clients at the same time each falls back to some 60% of this and at the AP the traffic increases some 45-50% to make up for both.

We are planning to add some extra clients on this AP so we have to see. As long as each client can sustain 100Mbp down plus 50Mb up I am happy. Let's see how many client we can hook up.
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:57 pm

Let's see how many client we can hook up.
Please note that it is currently limited to only 8 clients at a time. See page 16 of the 60G presentation from the MUM in Berlin.
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:48 am

Glad to hear that you have managed to establish link with so far distances. but please keep in mind that these wAP units are targeted mainly for 100 m distances (full speed). All of the experiments mentioned within this topic has exceeded this distance.
I thought with the latest ROS this was upgraded to 200mtrs?
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:54 am

Let's see how many client we can hook up.
Please note that it is currently limited to only 8 clients at a time. See page 16 of the 60G presentation from the MUM in Berlin.
Yes I am aware of this. But some wrote somewhere that after 4 things were spiraling down....
And is this limit just hardware limit? (i.e. ROS just won't accept 9th unit because MT software design told so to prevent complaints?) or is this just capacity limit in the protocol?
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:58 am

What would the back to back noise be of these units? Would they be able to work back to back on a pole in the same frequency? We only have 3 to use and if we have a tower with 4 sectors plus maybe one or two P2P's leaving we already have to start to make a puzzle. Some more antenna and radiation characteristics would be nice.

Some wrote two P2P's in parallel setup would be possible in same frequency but that sounds weird to me. As long as the units are not syncd that would be asking for problems imho. Or they have to be several meters apart from each other...
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:49 am

Glad to hear that you have managed to establish link with so far distances. but please keep in mind that these wAP units are targeted mainly for 100 m distances (full speed). All of the experiments mentioned within this topic has exceeded this distance.
I thought with the latest ROS this was upgraded to 200mtrs?
Post is 2 months old, before the update
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:21 am

What would the back to back noise be of these units? Would they be able to work back to back on a pole in the same frequency? We only have 3 to use and if we have a tower with 4 sectors plus maybe one or two P2P's leaving we already have to start to make a puzzle. Some more antenna and radiation characteristics would be nice.

Some wrote two P2P's in parallel setup would be possible in same frequency but that sounds weird to me. As long as the units are not syncd that would be asking for problems imho. Or they have to be several meters apart from each other...
The units have phased array antennas doing beam forming, and the antenna patterns seem to be *very* narrow. That would be a nice experiment to do. Probably the result would be surprising.
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:24 pm

Let's see how many client we can hook up.
Please note that it is currently limited to only 8 clients at a time. See page 16 of the 60G presentation from the MUM in Berlin.
Yes I am aware of this. But some wrote somewhere that after 4 things were spiraling down....
And is this limit just hardware limit? (i.e. ROS just won't accept 9th unit because MT software design told so to prevent complaints?) or is this just capacity limit in the protocol?
So, are there any plans to support more than 8 customers ? If yes, any idea of the max number of simultaneous clients that WAP60G may support in future?
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Mon May 27, 2019 10:14 pm

Can anyone tell me what the usable beamwidth of the LHG dish is, when running it as a PtMP AP?
 
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Re: 60GHz multipoint, share your experience

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:12 am

will be support for more than 8 CPE in future? Is that possible?

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