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macsrwe
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Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:19 am

For many years I was routinely using nv2 in my layer 2 (bridge/station-bridge) point-to-point links. I assumed that given its proprietary nature, it would offer enhanced thruput, and it allowed me to avoid exposing multiple SSIDs in public that were useless to end-users.

Some time ago, a consultant pointed out to me that my links ran a lot faster if I set them to 802.11. I was amazed to see sometimes 3x or 4x the performance I had been getting with nv2. So I put up with the visible SSIDs because it wasn't worth taking the hit in speed just to hide them. (I tried using "Hide SSID" on the point-to-point links, but discovered that the station-bridge side wasn't able to just pick up and run with it, at least without some sort of configuration change, and I never spent the time to play around to see if I could make it work.)

Anyway, I don't understand why nv2 was so much slower than 802.11 for me. I tried optimizing nv2 by shrinking the number of stations to minimum, shrinking the radius as small as it absolutely needed to be, and increasing the time slices, but I couldn't regain a fraction of the bandwidth I gained just by going to 802.11.

Are there other ways to optimize nv2 to provide at least as good if not better bandwidth than 802.11 on a point-to-point link?
 
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:58 am

For many years I was routinely using nv2 in my layer 2 (bridge/station-bridge) point-to-point links. I assumed that given its proprietary nature, it would offer enhanced thruput, and it allowed me to avoid exposing multiple SSIDs in public that were useless to end-users.

Some time ago, a consultant pointed out to me that my links ran a lot faster if I set them to 802.11. I was amazed to see sometimes 3x or 4x the performance I had been getting with nv2. So I put up with the visible SSIDs because it wasn't worth taking the hit in speed just to hide them. (I tried using "Hide SSID" on the point-to-point links, but discovered that the station-bridge side wasn't able to just pick up and run with it, at least without some sort of configuration change, and I never spent the time to play around to see if I could make it work.)

Anyway, I don't understand why nv2 was so much slower than 802.11 for me. I tried optimizing nv2 by shrinking the number of stations to minimum, shrinking the radius as small as it absolutely needed to be, and increasing the time slices, but I couldn't regain a fraction of the bandwidth I gained just by going to 802.11.

Are there other ways to optimize nv2 to provide at least as good if not better bandwidth than 802.11 on a point-to-point link?
+1. I gave up on NV2 a long time ago. The performance suffers even more with multiple hops.
 
mistry7
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:58 am

The only one who can optimize NV2 is Mikrotik themselves.
NV2 has not been touched since the first Products with 802.11ac,
it was actually the same with 802.11ac and now Wave2, not at all running on the new devices.

And it looks like they applied a fast fix and the performance get worse, look at the performance of the new ARM devices....

Last year we saw a little bit light in the tunnel, they start to work on sync and ratio for NV2, bat after one or two releases,
there is nothing new.
The straw fire has probably lost its way
 
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:02 pm

For many years I was routinely using nv2 in my layer 2 (bridge/station-bridge) point-to-point links. I assumed that given its proprietary nature, it would offer enhanced thruput, and it allowed me to avoid exposing multiple SSIDs in public that were useless to end-users.
That's not the point of NV2. NV2 does time division to avoid a single customer hogging all the available radio time and, to make it worse, it takes propagation delay into account. That means that it's response times are worse and that impacts throughput. The impact gets worse when you increase transmission speeds.

If you are running a single point to point link you can be better served with 802.11. In case it causes problems due to bursty traffic in one direction just add some traffic shaping and you're done.
 
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:11 pm

A few years back, protocol nv2 was the best. Best throughput, good ping. We were very satisfied
Now, after several years of "non-development," the situation has worsened. :-(

In most sectors we have nv2 but we think about dropping it from nv2.

@mikrotik what you say on this situation?
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server8
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:50 pm

NV2 protocol is EOL it is no more usable in professional enviroment after 7 years with mikrotik and 5400 CPEs iinstalled we are slowing moving to other vendors for PtMP scenario. In PtP we switched to Airfiber 2 years ago doubling the performance and stability :-(

We have no words, no news and no hope to have a modern TDMA protocol from mikrotik
 
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sebastia
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:03 pm

Are there any other options for TDMA?
Like for example this one? https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airmax/U ... X_TDMA.pdf
 
JDSurfnet
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:57 am


If you are running a single point to point link you can be better served with 802.11. In case it causes problems due to bursty traffic in one direction just add some traffic shaping and you're done.
Maybe on clear spectrum. Good luck in noisy environments.
 
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:15 am


We have no words, no news and no hope to have a modern TDMA protocol from Mikrotik
I agree. It would be nice to know if there are any improvements being made to NV2. It's time for Mikrotik to be forthcoming and start releasing roadmaps just like mistry7 said a couple weeks ago, or at the very least give us hope that they are moving forward. Many people have speculated that they've pivoted and are no longer interested in the WISP market which makes a lot of us uneasy.
 
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:38 am


We have no words, no news and no hope to have a modern TDMA protocol from Mikrotik
I agree. It would be nice to know if there are any improvements being made to NV2. It's time for Mikrotik to be forthcoming and start releasing roadmaps just like mistry7 said a couple weeks ago, or at the very least give us hope that they are moving forward. Many people have speculated that they've pivoted and are no longer interested in the WISP market which makes a lot of us uneasy.
looks like it is this way.....
 
nordex
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:05 pm

Mikrotik is everywhere.
Should ISIS start complaining about bad WIFI so Mikrotik finally hears its customers ?
Skip to 00:30
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ba_1517669921
 
2jarek
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:41 am

Need new Base stations , hardware low latency TDMA / NV2 & MU-MIMO. Even 5 more price than Netmetal we can buy it.
 
mistry7
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:21 am

Need new Base stations , hardware low latency TDMA / NV2 & MU-MIMO. Even 5 more price than Netmetal we can buy it.
I have no problem to pay this price for Mikrotik too, if the solution is working great.
But MT has sleeping over years, and the only think we now can buy for Wireless @ MT, is low cost products with low cost performance!
 
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honzam
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:07 pm

Yes it is TRUE. We need more wireless power for more money....
Mikrotik is anyone reading it?
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alexoptimus
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:18 pm

Netmetal is a good product, we reached more than 350mb only at 20MHz and up to 500mb at 40MHz (aggregated using MIMO 3x3) in ptp link, but it would be nice to have some new product with better performance.
 
mistry7
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:07 am

Netmetal is a good product, we reached more than 350mb only at 20MHz and up to 500mb at 40MHz (aggregated using MIMO 3x3) in ptp link, but it would be nice to have some new product with better performance.
802.11ac with MCS 9 and 3 Streams @20 MHz is 288,9 MBit Brutto Max, there is no way to see 350 MBit
Same for 40MHz , 3 Streams, MCS 9 is about 600 MBit
Please show us your PTP Antenna for 3x3
But you only get it in absolute clean spectrum, and that is our problem here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac
 
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:12 pm

What I miss here in these Mikrotik comments about 802.11 being faster on a point-to-point link is the any mention of distance. So for sure any distance under 1km then 802.11 is faster, but when getting into longer 10km links then you may be better trying nv2, as I suspect because 802.11 is not built for delay calculations as good as nv and nstreme have built in. Getting up to 18km plus then nstreme starts to shine out, and in particular one notices the CCQ will be 20% on nv2 or 802.11 , so change to nstreme 20Mhz bandwidth and suddenly the CCQ jumps up to 80% with a workable link, be careful though as nstreme will keep dropping out the link every 30 minutes or so if the signal level gets over -68dBm or there abouts, and then one has to increase the dish size or use 802.11 or nv2 to stop the link break, nstreme dropout breaks also get worse using 40Mhz compared to 20Mhz. These are general guide lines and there are always exceptions to these rules.
But as one of the guys says for any serious 100 to 400mbps to point-to-point link I use AF5XHD ubnt as they are very stable even at -70dBm if needed (-60dBm is ideal). hey are marvelous for having a second additional radio dedicated just to frequency scanning so you can see easily and quickly which frequency is best used at each end.

WISP Netherlands Friesedraad.nl
Last edited by friesedraad on Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:49 pm

Can anyone add some info here.

According to MT wiki about Nv2 AP Synchronization
"After Master AP is found the Slave AP will calculate the distance to the Master AP as it is possible that Master AP is located not on the same location".

I got one Master-AP--ssid=test1, and one Slave-AP-ssid=test2

And im connection station to one of those APs.
Station can see only ONE ssid

Distance betwene Master and Slave APs is't more the 2m. That is for my lab at home.

is the distance matter for the client to chouse diferent APs?
RouterOS does not have a random function. Many has tried to make script to make random text, but all seems to be flawed.
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