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Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:19 am
by macsrwe
For many years I was routinely using nv2 in my layer 2 (bridge/station-bridge) point-to-point links. I assumed that given its proprietary nature, it would offer enhanced thruput, and it allowed me to avoid exposing multiple SSIDs in public that were useless to end-users.

Some time ago, a consultant pointed out to me that my links ran a lot faster if I set them to 802.11. I was amazed to see sometimes 3x or 4x the performance I had been getting with nv2. So I put up with the visible SSIDs because it wasn't worth taking the hit in speed just to hide them. (I tried using "Hide SSID" on the point-to-point links, but discovered that the station-bridge side wasn't able to just pick up and run with it, at least without some sort of configuration change, and I never spent the time to play around to see if I could make it work.)

Anyway, I don't understand why nv2 was so much slower than 802.11 for me. I tried optimizing nv2 by shrinking the number of stations to minimum, shrinking the radius as small as it absolutely needed to be, and increasing the time slices, but I couldn't regain a fraction of the bandwidth I gained just by going to 802.11.

Are there other ways to optimize nv2 to provide at least as good if not better bandwidth than 802.11 on a point-to-point link?

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:58 am
by JDSurfnet
For many years I was routinely using nv2 in my layer 2 (bridge/station-bridge) point-to-point links. I assumed that given its proprietary nature, it would offer enhanced thruput, and it allowed me to avoid exposing multiple SSIDs in public that were useless to end-users.

Some time ago, a consultant pointed out to me that my links ran a lot faster if I set them to 802.11. I was amazed to see sometimes 3x or 4x the performance I had been getting with nv2. So I put up with the visible SSIDs because it wasn't worth taking the hit in speed just to hide them. (I tried using "Hide SSID" on the point-to-point links, but discovered that the station-bridge side wasn't able to just pick up and run with it, at least without some sort of configuration change, and I never spent the time to play around to see if I could make it work.)

Anyway, I don't understand why nv2 was so much slower than 802.11 for me. I tried optimizing nv2 by shrinking the number of stations to minimum, shrinking the radius as small as it absolutely needed to be, and increasing the time slices, but I couldn't regain a fraction of the bandwidth I gained just by going to 802.11.

Are there other ways to optimize nv2 to provide at least as good if not better bandwidth than 802.11 on a point-to-point link?
+1. I gave up on NV2 a long time ago. The performance suffers even more with multiple hops.

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:58 am
by mistry7
The only one who can optimize NV2 is Mikrotik themselves.
NV2 has not been touched since the first Products with 802.11ac,
it was actually the same with 802.11ac and now Wave2, not at all running on the new devices.

And it looks like they applied a fast fix and the performance get worse, look at the performance of the new ARM devices....

Last year we saw a little bit light in the tunnel, they start to work on sync and ratio for NV2, bat after one or two releases,
there is nothing new.
The straw fire has probably lost its way

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:02 pm
by Bergante
For many years I was routinely using nv2 in my layer 2 (bridge/station-bridge) point-to-point links. I assumed that given its proprietary nature, it would offer enhanced thruput, and it allowed me to avoid exposing multiple SSIDs in public that were useless to end-users.
That's not the point of NV2. NV2 does time division to avoid a single customer hogging all the available radio time and, to make it worse, it takes propagation delay into account. That means that it's response times are worse and that impacts throughput. The impact gets worse when you increase transmission speeds.

If you are running a single point to point link you can be better served with 802.11. In case it causes problems due to bursty traffic in one direction just add some traffic shaping and you're done.

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:11 pm
by honzam
A few years back, protocol nv2 was the best. Best throughput, good ping. We were very satisfied
Now, after several years of "non-development," the situation has worsened. :-(

In most sectors we have nv2 but we think about dropping it from nv2.

@mikrotik what you say on this situation?

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:50 pm
by server8
NV2 protocol is EOL it is no more usable in professional enviroment after 7 years with mikrotik and 5400 CPEs iinstalled we are slowing moving to other vendors for PtMP scenario. In PtP we switched to Airfiber 2 years ago doubling the performance and stability :-(

We have no words, no news and no hope to have a modern TDMA protocol from mikrotik

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:03 pm
by sebastia
Are there any other options for TDMA?
Like for example this one? https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airmax/U ... X_TDMA.pdf

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:57 am
by JDSurfnet

If you are running a single point to point link you can be better served with 802.11. In case it causes problems due to bursty traffic in one direction just add some traffic shaping and you're done.
Maybe on clear spectrum. Good luck in noisy environments.

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:15 am
by JDSurfnet

We have no words, no news and no hope to have a modern TDMA protocol from Mikrotik
I agree. It would be nice to know if there are any improvements being made to NV2. It's time for Mikrotik to be forthcoming and start releasing roadmaps just like mistry7 said a couple weeks ago, or at the very least give us hope that they are moving forward. Many people have speculated that they've pivoted and are no longer interested in the WISP market which makes a lot of us uneasy.

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:38 am
by mistry7

We have no words, no news and no hope to have a modern TDMA protocol from Mikrotik
I agree. It would be nice to know if there are any improvements being made to NV2. It's time for Mikrotik to be forthcoming and start releasing roadmaps just like mistry7 said a couple weeks ago, or at the very least give us hope that they are moving forward. Many people have speculated that they've pivoted and are no longer interested in the WISP market which makes a lot of us uneasy.
looks like it is this way.....

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:05 pm
by nordex
Mikrotik is everywhere.
Should ISIS start complaining about bad WIFI so Mikrotik finally hears its customers ?
Skip to 00:30
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ba_1517669921

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:41 am
by 2jarek
Need new Base stations , hardware low latency TDMA / NV2 & MU-MIMO. Even 5 more price than Netmetal we can buy it.

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:21 am
by mistry7
Need new Base stations , hardware low latency TDMA / NV2 & MU-MIMO. Even 5 more price than Netmetal we can buy it.
I have no problem to pay this price for Mikrotik too, if the solution is working great.
But MT has sleeping over years, and the only think we now can buy for Wireless @ MT, is low cost products with low cost performance!

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:07 pm
by honzam
Yes it is TRUE. We need more wireless power for more money....
Mikrotik is anyone reading it?

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:18 pm
by alexoptimus
Netmetal is a good product, we reached more than 350mb only at 20MHz and up to 500mb at 40MHz (aggregated using MIMO 3x3) in ptp link, but it would be nice to have some new product with better performance.

Re: Why is nv2 so much slower than 802.11?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:07 am
by mistry7
Netmetal is a good product, we reached more than 350mb only at 20MHz and up to 500mb at 40MHz (aggregated using MIMO 3x3) in ptp link, but it would be nice to have some new product with better performance.
802.11ac with MCS 9 and 3 Streams @20 MHz is 288,9 MBit Brutto Max, there is no way to see 350 MBit
Same for 40MHz , 3 Streams, MCS 9 is about 600 MBit
Please show us your PTP Antenna for 3x3
But you only get it in absolute clean spectrum, and that is our problem here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac