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monkeydedragon
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[ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:49 am

First of all sorry for my English.
i want setup my wireless network for 300 client and this is what i need:
  • each AP can manage 50 client minimum and can deliver 3Mbps for each client and with good latency.
what AP i need for this set up RB800...?
how many AP i need..?

in my mind i use 3 sectoral and each RB800 for this set up, is this the best or any another option..?
please need advice who have experience before..?

Thanks and Regards
Dave
 
monkeydedragon
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:56 am

any suggestion for my situation.
 
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Petri
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:42 pm

50 clients is more like maximum due to air time availability. If all the clients are very close you can squeeze in a lot of clients because they all will have fast connections. If you have clients further away connected at 1 to 6 Mbps they will eat all the air time. Your 3Mbps requirement is modest, though. It all depends on the client connection speeds and requirements. If you want to analyze it use the Revolution Wi-Fi Capacity planner at http://www.revolutionwifi.net/capacity-planner/

I have written an article How many users can one Wi-Fi access point support? available at https://metis.fi/en/2018/02/how-many-users/

As for the MikroTik devices I have found hAP AC to be quite capable. It has good radios and routing performance. You hint at sector APs so are you deploying this outdoors? It really would help to know more about the intended use.
 
monkeydedragon
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:06 pm

50 clients is more like maximum due to air time availability. If all the clients are very close you can squeeze in a lot of clients because they all will have fast connections. If you have clients further away connected at 1 to 6 Mbps they will eat all the air time. Your 3Mbps requirement is modest, though. It all depends on the client connection speeds and requirements. If you want to analyze it use the Revolution Wi-Fi Capacity planner at http://www.revolutionwifi.net/capacity-planner/

I have written an article How many users can one Wi-Fi access point support? available at https://metis.fi/en/2018/02/how-many-users/

As for the MikroTik devices I have found hAP AC to be quite capable. It has good radios and routing performance. You hint at sector APs so are you deploying this outdoors? It really would help to know more about the intended use.
thanks petri for your reply.
yes this is for outdoor use our client using cpe mikrotik, any suggestion for outdoor use..?
 
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Petri
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:20 am

You are not helping much. I already guessed it was outdoors.
What kind of deployment? It is a totally different matter to serve 300 people scattered around a park than 300 people packed in front of a concert stage. How much freedom do you have in AP placement? How are going to supply power? What kind of network do you have? How are you going to distribute network to the APs?
You wrote about sector APs in a tower. With 60° sector antennas you could place six APs in the same tower, which could serve the 300 clients from a single point - if the clients are distributed evenly around the tower and reasonably close. How about two or three towers with three 120° sectors each? How about sector antennas around the perimeter aimed in towards the users?
 
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:28 am

You are not helping much. I already guessed it was outdoors.
What kind of deployment? It is a totally different matter to serve 300 people scattered around a park than 300 people packed in front of a concert stage. How much freedom do you have in AP placement? How are going to supply power? What kind of network do you have? How are you going to distribute network to the APs?
You wrote about sector APs in a tower. With 60° sector antennas you could place six APs in the same tower, which could serve the 300 clients from a single point - if the clients are distributed evenly around the tower and reasonably close. How about two or three towers with three 120° sectors each? How about sector antennas around the perimeter aimed in towards the users?
client to tower is LOS our coverage about 3km maximum, out tower located in residential.
we using mikrotik ccr as router we have 2 ccr for this, one for core router second for distribution.
we planning using 3 sectors in single tower because our client in one residential.

each sector using AP RB 800 and mini pci R52HN and power using poe distribution and we have UPS for this.
is this possible using RB 800 to handle it or any better radio for this ..?
 
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Petri
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:11 pm

Are we talking about a WISP setup here? (Again it is me guessing..)

I have no experience with running a WISP, so I'll step aside then. My advice concerned providing Wi-Fi service to client devices directly.

It would have saved my time and you would get better responses if you'd given some background information. If it is secret then you need to hire a consultant under an NDA.
 
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:18 pm

Are we talking about a WISP setup here? (Again it is me guessing..)

I have no experience with running a WISP, so I'll step aside then. My advice concerned providing Wi-Fi service to client devices directly.

It would have saved my time and you would get better responses if you'd given some background information. If it is secret then you need to hire a consultant under an NDA.
ya this is wisp set up, now running using RB411AH.
i am trying to upgrade everything because we handle hundred client.

we still figure out the best AP for this, that way i am asking to this forum.
and thanks again for your reply and time.
 
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ahteran
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:16 pm

RB800 is a good choice very fast and stable
You can use R52Hn or SR71-15 or F50N-PRO Mini-PCI
Another good choice is SXTG-5HPnD-SAr2
 
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mbfound
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:01 am

Guessing you're going to use 3 120 degree sectors to cover a full 360 degree around the site?

The RB800 should be fine for that (although never even seen it) but get some decent sectors antennas with noise isolation/shielding.

For clients I'd either use SXT (closer), Disc (medium) or LHG (far). All of them should be OK.

If you're running Mikrotik only, I'd suggest using NV2 protocol and using the latest 6.42+ software for the increased throughput fix.

Personally I'd use the following:
Site core: https://mikrotik.com/product/RB750Gr3
Sector radio: https://mikrotik.com/product/RB911G-5HPacD-NB or https://mikrotik.com/product/RB912UAG-5HPnD-OUT
Sector antenna: https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/tisector/air ... Ti_QSG.pdf

Modular approach, so things can be swapped as needed or if something breaks.
 
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Wed May 02, 2018 6:33 am

Guessing you're going to use 3 120 degree sectors to cover a full 360 degree around the site?

The RB800 should be fine for that (although never even seen it) but get some decent sectors antennas with noise isolation/shielding.

For clients I'd either use SXT (closer), Disc (medium) or LHG (far). All of them should be OK.

If you're running Mikrotik only, I'd suggest using NV2 protocol and using the latest 6.42+ software for the increased throughput fix.

Personally I'd use the following
Site core: https://mikrotik.com/product/RB750Gr3
Sector radio: https://mikrotik.com/product/RB911G-5HPacD-NB or https://mikrotik.com/product/RB912UAG-5HPnD-OUT
Sector antenna: https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/tisector/air ... Ti_QSG.pdf

Modular approach, so things can be swapped as needed or if something breaks.
mbfound thanks for reply yes we want to cover 360 degree and i think using 3 sector 2.4Ghz and 3 sector 5Ghz and total we have 6 sector.
you have some advice what best sector antennas for this..?

Thanks
 
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mbfound
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Wed May 02, 2018 9:06 pm

I would avoid using 2.4Ghz, it's a very noisy spectrum and very few channels available.

I did post a link above to the sector antenna, but here: https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/airmax-sector-antenna/

They come in 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz (The adjustable Titanium range). You can run them with a Netbox5 for the 5Ghz sectors and a Basebox2 for the 2.4Ghz sectors.

I would avoid the RB800 and go for a modular approach to save some future headache but even that would work with a daughterboard and a few wireless cards.

https://mikrotik.com/product/RB604
https://mikrotik.com/product/RB800
https://mikrotik.com/product/R52Hn
 
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chechito
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Thu May 03, 2018 12:19 am

we are talking about WISP network to sell Internet access to home and business in log distances outdoor

or

a wifi network for clients like smartphones tablets laptops on a school or enterprise indoors

???
 
monkeydedragon
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Thu May 03, 2018 12:13 pm

we are talking about wisp therefore my suggestion using RB800 because we are handling minimum per AP 50client.
how many basebox can handle client..?

i dont have experience with basebox need advice for best AP especially mikrotik.

Thanks
 
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mbfound
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Thu May 03, 2018 9:36 pm

Are you talking 50 clients PER SECTOR or 50 clients PER SITE?
 
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mbfound
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Thu May 03, 2018 9:40 pm

Clipboard01.jpg
Have a look at the top sectors, the basebox/netboxes will just act as the AP/sector and the routing/pppoe server will sit on another device (RB3011 in this case).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
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chechito
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Thu May 03, 2018 10:13 pm

we are talking about wisp therefore my suggestion using RB800 because we are handling minimum per AP 50client.
how many basebox can handle client..?

i dont have experience with basebox need advice for best AP especially mikrotik.

Thanks

rb800 is an old way to do things

i refer to the model of one CPU with many radios, that was valid an very popular decades ago but not today

nowadays designs have migrated for single Radio per equipment to improve performance and isolate radios between them, preventing self interference

finally rb800 gets you an expensive less performance solution than separated equipment:

for example you get a rb800 and every thing you need to get 4 radios operative with 19dbi 120° antennas you spend close to 1.200 US

instead of that you get 4 mantbox with the same antenna plus a powerbox pro to power it in group you spend only 900 bucks and get best performing solution without the hassle of managing pigtails from radios to antennas
 
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Thu May 03, 2018 11:10 pm

we are talking about wisp therefore my suggestion using RB800 because we are handling minimum per AP 50client.
how many basebox can handle client..?

i dont have experience with basebox need advice for best AP especially mikrotik.

Thanks

rb800 is an old way to do things

i refer to the model of one CPU with many radios, that was valid an very popular decades ago but not today

nowadays designs have migrated for single Radio per equipment to improve performance and isolate radios between them, preventing self interference

finally rb800 gets you an expensive less performance solution than separated equipment:

for example you get a rb800 and every thing you need to get 4 radios operative with 19dbi 120° antennas you spend close to 1.200 US

instead of that you get 4 mantbox with the same antenna plus a powerbox pro to power it in group you spend only 900 bucks and get best performing solution without the hassle of managing pigtails from radios to antennas
The Mantbox 19s is a cheap and good performing solution, but it is not a good solution overall. As a wireless engineer you should cherish and preserve spectrum by using best possible basestations. Cheap antennas will pollute big chunks of spectrum for miles so it's akin to shooting oneself in the foot!
MTCNA MTCWE MTCRE MTCINE MTCTCE UWBS UWBA
 
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mbfound
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Fri May 04, 2018 10:40 pm

we are talking about wisp therefore my suggestion using RB800 because we are handling minimum per AP 50client.
how many basebox can handle client..?

i dont have experience with basebox need advice for best AP especially mikrotik.

Thanks

rb800 is an old way to do things

i refer to the model of one CPU with many radios, that was valid an very popular decades ago but not today

nowadays designs have migrated for single Radio per equipment to improve performance and isolate radios between them, preventing self interference

finally rb800 gets you an expensive less performance solution than separated equipment:

for example you get a rb800 and every thing you need to get 4 radios operative with 19dbi 120° antennas you spend close to 1.200 US

instead of that you get 4 mantbox with the same antenna plus a powerbox pro to power it in group you spend only 900 bucks and get best performing solution without the hassle of managing pigtails from radios to antennas
The Mantbox 19s is a cheap and good performing solution, but it is not a good solution overall. As a wireless engineer you should cherish and preserve spectrum by using best possible basestations. Cheap antennas will pollute big chunks of spectrum for miles so it's akin to shooting oneself in the foot!
I wish more people would think like you, good shielded antennas with only as much degrees as need and adjusting output power as low as possible instead of just blasting everything on max.
 
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chechito
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Sat May 05, 2018 12:03 am

we are talking about wisp therefore my suggestion using RB800 because we are handling minimum per AP 50client.
how many basebox can handle client..?

i dont have experience with basebox need advice for best AP especially mikrotik.

Thanks

rb800 is an old way to do things

i refer to the model of one CPU with many radios, that was valid an very popular decades ago but not today

nowadays designs have migrated for single Radio per equipment to improve performance and isolate radios between them, preventing self interference

finally rb800 gets you an expensive less performance solution than separated equipment:

for example you get a rb800 and every thing you need to get 4 radios operative with 19dbi 120° antennas you spend close to 1.200 US

instead of that you get 4 mantbox with the same antenna plus a powerbox pro to power it in group you spend only 900 bucks and get best performing solution without the hassle of managing pigtails from radios to antennas
The Mantbox 19s is a cheap and good performing solution, but it is not a good solution overall. As a wireless engineer you should cherish and preserve spectrum by using best possible basestations. Cheap antennas will pollute big chunks of spectrum for miles so it's akin to shooting oneself in the foot!

yes solutions like rf elements 30° horns are very optimal

the only drawback is cost

horn antenna itself are costly, and requires its own radio, for each 30° area, only suitable for high density scenarios

dont misunderstand me

i like to design using low power taking care of not create interference

but i am a minority
 
monkeydedragon
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Mon May 07, 2018 8:11 am

Thanks to @mbfound @chechito @networkfudge for your reply and time.
and thanks for all advice given to me.

i think i will use netmetal as AP and ya i will manage per sector at least minimum 30 client each sector.
and for client i will use SXT client, and use NV2 protocol for this setup.

@mbfound how many client you can handle each sector..?

Thanks a lot guys.
 
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mbfound
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Mon May 07, 2018 4:27 pm

Thanks to @mbfound @chechito @networkfudge for your reply and time.
and thanks for all advice given to me.

i think i will use netmetal as AP and ya i will manage per sector at least minimum 30 client each sector.
and for client i will use SXT client, and use NV2 protocol for this setup.

@mbfound how many client you can handle each sector..?

Thanks a lot guys.
For 3Mbps? They should handle 30 easy. Just get a decent core/pppoe server router so that it can handle all the packets and routing. Make sure to use Routeros 6.42.1 or later since they fixed NV2.
 
monkeydedragon
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Wed May 09, 2018 10:25 am

[/quote]

For 3Mbps? They should handle 30 easy. Just get a decent core/pppoe server router so that it can handle all the packets and routing. Make sure to use Routeros 6.42.1 or later since they fixed NV2.
[/quote]

thanks @mbfound do you have experience about this product RB921UAGS-5SHPacT-NM because they using 3x RP-SMA connector what best sector for this product ...?
this product can use N protocol ..?

because i found in this forum nv2 not good enough using a/c protocol.

Thanks
 
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mbfound
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Wed May 09, 2018 5:32 pm

Hi,

No experience with triple chain sectors - I've never seen them for sale anywhere. Have only used https://mikrotik.com/product/RB921UAGS-5SHPacD-NM so far.

Wireless N should be ample for 3Mbps clients.
 
monkeydedragon
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Re: [ASK] Best AP Mikrotik need advice

Tue May 15, 2018 9:25 am

Hi,

No experience with triple chain sectors - I've never seen them for sale anywhere. Have only used https://mikrotik.com/product/RB921UAGS-5SHPacD-NM so far.

Wireless N should be ample for 3Mbps clients.
ok thanks alot for your help and all of you guys.

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