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anav
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Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Mon May 07, 2018 8:17 pm

I cannot find in basic literature the number of VLANS a wifi device can provide (by that I mean wirelessly not wired). Come to think of it I dont think I have # of ssids either??
Where is the magic information stored. I must be blind!!
Perhaps this should be added to the wirless faq (especially because there is no real user guide).
ex. capAC hAP ac2. wAP AC etc.......
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JohnTRIVOLTA
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Mon May 07, 2018 8:53 pm

2007 ssids = 2007 vlans
 
anav
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Mon May 07, 2018 9:24 pm

Anybody else with actual information?
Seems like everyone in Bulgaria drinks heavily all day and should not be allowed near a computer.

{Edit: Solved and partially because apparently I am the idiot, as the answer provided was theoretically correct and my lack of knowledge didnt help, luckily others were generous enough to provide the education required]
Last edited by anav on Tue May 08, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sob
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Mon May 07, 2018 9:38 pm

That number is real, just something slightly different. It's default value for max-station-count parameter, i.e. maximum number of clients. How much real such scenario is, that's another question. I would have to see it to believe it.

About SSIDs/virtual APs, it's documented in manual:
Note: you can create up to 127 virtual interfaces per physical interface. It is not recommended to create more 30, since the performance will start to degrade.
And VLANs, if you'd assign them based on connect list or using RADIUS, and not all would be active at the same time (because that would be too many users), I'd guess there's no reason why there should be any limit. But I didn't test.
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anav
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Mon May 07, 2018 10:18 pm

That number is real, just something slightly different. It's default value for max-station-count parameter, i.e. maximum number of clients. How much real such scenario is, that's another question. I would have to see it to believe it.

About SSIDs/virtual APs, it's documented in manual:
Note: you can create up to 127 virtual interfaces per physical interface. It is not recommended to create more 30, since the performance will start to degrade.
And VLANs, if you'd assign them based on connect list or using RADIUS, and not all would be active at the same time (because that would be too many users), I'd guess there's no reason why there should be any limit. But I didn't test.
Obviously my questions are lacking.
How many vlans can a cAP host and are there limitations per frequency (b/gn, ac) and......... How many bssids?
Lets deal in real numbers please. No radius involved.

For example if I want to have three SSIDs guest wifi, home wifi, and devices wifi, each on its own vlan as well, can the cAP AC do it? What about hAP-AC2 wAP etc.......
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Mon May 07, 2018 10:23 pm

Anybody else with actual information?
Seems like everyone in Bulgaria drinks heavily all day and should not be allowed near a computer.
Every child can run google search engine and the first result gives you answer. I just have added the theoretical number of the vlans to my post ... yes, i drink water 2 liters min, per day !
 
anav
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Mon May 07, 2018 11:10 pm

Seems like there is no education system in Bulgaria either.
The link you provided does not indicate how many vlans (or SSIDs) any of the physical devices (wifi) can host/provide.

PS. Why do you put water in your booze. I've heard of cheap before.................

Well guess the choice is easy then. Heading over to ubiquiti as I know for certainty their devices can up host up to 4 SSIDS per radio and thus 4vlans per radio.

Worst forum in mikrotik thus far!
Will stick to general and beginner.
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Tue May 08, 2018 12:13 am

Canadians can't take a hint, it seems. Linked VLAN page shows you how to have two SSIDs and two VLANs. Since you need three, and even though it might sound as wild idea at first, maybe starting with that config and adding another SSID/VLAN is the right way to go? I have a feeling that it might work.
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anav
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Tue May 08, 2018 12:35 am

Sob, I am not looking for the how, I am looking for the limits.
I am not asking by reading and inferring, I am looking for facts.
Yes, unlike certain Presidents, and it seems mikrotik wifi forum lurkers, I work from facts, not alternate fiction. ;-P
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Tue May 08, 2018 12:36 am

Hello fellow Canuk!

As per https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... LAN#802.1Q, an interface (any type) can host up to 4095 vlans interfaces.

Sob is right (as per https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... interfaces) stating that 127 VAPs can be created per radio interface. MikroTik states that no more than 30 should be done for performance reasons. That number is WAAAAAYYYYYYY TOOOOOOO generous. Stick to 3 to 4 SSIDs max!! The management traffic for more (probes, beacons) will kill air time. Go to www.cwnp.com for more on 802.11.

Your setup of three SSIDs and VLANs can be handled even by lower end models. Traffic will overwelm the CPU before that simple setup does.

Good day hey!

;)
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anav
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Tue May 08, 2018 12:52 am

Thank you Alain for providing input.
Is this also the case for SSIDs?
So If I buy the cAP-AC I can have three ssids on the 2.4gh network and one ssid on the 5Ghz network and all on separate VLANs.
The newer cAP-AC and hAP ac2 have very good CPU performance for just such an occurrence.

By the way I am still looking for literature that clearly indicates the physical limitations of the units #ssids and #vlans per device (and by radio).
( I am very confused by the reference to virtual APs as I have never heard of this before).
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS  [SOLVED]

Tue May 08, 2018 7:49 am

Hello there :) Back in previous topic, I really did not mean anything bad. I am aware of all issues and also I am happy to help if my help is appreciated.
So If I buy the cAP-AC I can have three ssids on the 2.4gh network and one ssid on the 5Ghz network and all on separate VLANs.
That is right. You can.

Just one thing which you may not realize now - each physical radio can operate only ONE frequency at a time. This fact has two consequences:
1) To operate both bands at the same time, device must have two separate physical radios. cAP-AC and hAP-ac2 have each 2 radios. One for 2GHz band and second for 5GHz band so you can operate both bands at the same time. (Some devices like Groove52 have one radio which can switch bands but operate only one at a time. )

2) Multiple SSIDs using same radio will use same frequency. In default setting, you will see two wireless interfaces - wlan1 and wlan2. Those represent real physical radios. When you add VirtualAP, it will act as a slave of selected physical radio. Some setting which affects hardware (frequency,power, channel width) are unavailable in VirtualAP

(this is not something surprising, just important to keep in mind. You would see same limitation in UniFi system)

I am afraid you will not find mention of #ssid and #vlan limitations in any literature but if you have any specific question, I will be more than happy to help you. I have plenty of both Mikrotiks and Unifi devices around so I can show you difference in settings etc..

for example here:
2018-05-08_1426.png
This is a table/list of all wireless interfaces in one of my hAP ac2
Firstly, notice there are "wlan2-pk" and "wlan5-pk". those are physical radios (as well as wireless interfaces). First is 2GHz, second is 5GHz. Both are actually set up same way, so the SSID, security profile and VLAN is same. With this approach, users add just one wifi and their phones/computers will automatically connect to best available option. (if 5GHz is too weak, it will switch to 2GHz automatically).
Then, there are "wlan2v-jac" and "wlan5v-jac". Those are virtual interfaces. Each is slave for corresponding physical radio so it operate on same frequency as its master. Same as previously - those two have same settings but operate on different VLAN (I prefer to add vlan as suffix to interface. Then it is clearly visible if it goes to PK or JAC network)
Lastly, there are "test1" and "test2" virtual interfaces. Those are slaves to "wlan2-pk" so they operate on same frequency as wlan2-pk but obviously are for different purpose (actually i did not even connect them to the internal bridge so they do not provide network connection)
You can imagine it this way:
2018-05-08_1509.png
Hope this helps :)
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Tue May 08, 2018 9:15 am

@anav You won't find any exact figure since there isn't one. The theoretical limits are 4095 VLANs and 2007 SSIDs. Each SSID can be connected with a VLAN so 2007 would be the answer since it is lower and thus the limit (as @JohnTRIVOLTA noted). On a one-radio MikroTik device you would run one SSID on the physical interface and the rest on virtual interfaces. MikroTik has set a limit of 127 virtual APs per radio so the upper limit depends on the number of radios as @Sob explained.

However, all SSIDs run on the same channel sharing the air time as @AlainCasault wrote. The AP needs to transmit a beacon for each SSID - ten times a second (by default). The beacons are transmitted at the lowest possible speed so they can be received at the edge of the coverage area. That's why the beacons eat up so much air time: they are transmitted v - e - r - y - - s - l - o - w - l - y . The more SSIDs and the more information in the beacons the less air time there is for actual traffic. That's why you should minimize the number of SSIDs. Read http://www.revolutionwifi.net/revolutio ... lator.html for figures.
 
anav
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Tue May 08, 2018 2:30 pm

Awesome guys, that really clears it up and I apologize for my less then stellar attitude earlier. I get ancy when spending money.
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Re: Where to find # of WIFI VLANS

Tue May 08, 2018 3:59 pm

You can imagine it this way:
2018-05-08_1509.png
Hope this helps :)
WOW, @vecernik87, you get 5 stars from me for the very best explanation .... Thank you for this EXCELLENT Post.

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