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alejosalmon
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:49 am

what are the models and how much are they?
 
mistry7
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:07 am

what are the models and how much are they?
B5 and B5c are PTP Radios

B5 has integrated Antenna and B5c is connector based

https://mimosa.co/products/specs/b5
 
ste
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:43 am

Hi guys. Yes wireless situation is annoying. But this is still a MT forum. This should not be used to praise other vendors. So please consider removing your posts with foreign gear.

Something to consider:
MT is great with routers.
MT is great with their new 3xx line switches
LHG60 is great
802.11ax may change things
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:12 am

mikrotik has caused me many problems and does not solve them. some things work well but many do not. We have lost a lot of time and money because of the mikrotik arm. If mikrotik does not want to solve the problem we have the right to look for arternatives. In my country it is considered scam to sell products that do not work. Also mikrotik does not respond to problems.
 
djvolt
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:43 am

not sure if this shows up but this will solve my problem
Image
Much better but 10 x expensive than ubnt or mt :P This is not a solution in this point. You have not mount this for customer...

B5 is the best for PtP link, 1Gbps full duplex.

The same will do AF5xHD and will cheaper with antennas x2 :P
http://24.multimediahd.pl/pl/3-60ghz
Upgrades for Mikrotik's devices
 
ste
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:41 am

mikrotik has caused me many problems and does not solve them. some things work well but many do not. We have lost a lot of time and money because of the mikrotik arm. If mikrotik does not want to solve the problem we have the right to look for arternatives. In my country it is considered scam to sell products that do not work. Also mikrotik does not respond to problems.
Everyone always has the free decision to buy anything. If a product does not work as *advertised* just give it back.

If you loose money using a product which is not developed further and does not work great ... it is your business decision. If you expect help from a vendor using his products this is your right. But a vendor is not committed to do this. Buy a cisco and call them for help. You will end up at sales offering you an expensive contract. If you want updates you need a contract.

So dont whine. Order equipment from a different vendor, test it and use it.

This nv2 situation is for so long now. Everybody whining *now* likes to whine or does not understand how to do his job. As you see this thread is still here and everybody is able to read and see the limitations.

Despite all of this: This is still a MT forum and not the presentation place for other vendors equipment. Just follow the board rules.
 
mistry7
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:52 am

802.11ax may change things
802.11ax is useless without Software revolution, but with the delay they have had for AC, we would probably see AX in 2021, ROS 7 could be available.....

Why not discuss alternative? They don’t answer anything, so I think they don’t need to sell 802.11 Hardware anymore, and that is what I said more then 18 month ago, they did decide do only low cost Outdoor Wireless, and don’t invest time in Development.

Mikrotik is more going for routing, switching, Fiber not for wireless.
But doing such decision without telling customers is more than contempt
 
ste
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:23 am

802.11ax may change things
802.11ax is useless without Software revolution, but with the delay they have had for AC, we would probably see AX in 2021, ROS 7 could be available.....
Mikrotik despite doing not enough for nv2 was the first wisp vendor offering an .ac product. Problem with .ac and tdma protocols is that the common cpus are to weak. Vendors who offer better .ac experience for wisps do this by making HW modifications or complete other chipsets. MT uses what their favorite chipset vendors are offering. 802.11ax will have some stuff integrated into the chipset which will help wisps. So this might change things a bit. And as you see with 60GHz. Where are your favorite vendors there.
Why not discuss alternative? They don’t answer anything, so I think they don’t need to sell 802.11 Hardware anymore, and that is what I said more then 18 month ago, they did decide do only low cost Outdoor Wireless, and don’t invest time in Development.
Because it is a MT forum? Think of your users talking on your forum where to shop else.
Mikrotik is more going for routing, switching, Fiber not for wireless.
But doing such decision without telling customers is more than contempt
This is not the truth. Look at LHG60. And there is still place for MT 5GHz where it does not need to scale. Hardware is very reliable. And SW features are very good.
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:33 am

we need a day and hour that magical sw that all solution STE
 
2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:50 pm

Mikrotik again sell beta / alpha products & promised to solve the problem fast. They lie again & play on time. Now after months can't send back because have only 14 days in my country for this. The only way to defend a good name is to fix it. No fix = no buy & black PR from me.

The first big lie and time game from mikrotik is the first generation of AC:
1)Still unstable if use IP firewall & priorities for WMM pure 802.11 (watch dog reboot sometimes)
2)Still NV2 works worse than older generation for 802.11N mode not AC !
3)Still no Spectral scan....

Better sell old good hardware like Cambium.
802.11N from mikrotik & NV2 works great & beast Vs noise from another networks.
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:08 pm

One more time no answer
 
server8
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:02 pm

This is the end lalala (cit. Doors) ;-)
 
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honzam
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:51 pm

Today I wrote for support that we ask their expression here on the forum
LAN, FTTx, Wireless. ISP operator
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:01 pm

If mikrotik request please honzam tell us.
 
xrayd
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:37 pm

*) wireless - improved signal strength at low TX power on LHG 5 ac, LHG 5 ac XL and LDF 5 ac ("/system routerboard upgrade" required);
*) wireless - improved system stability for all ARM devices with wireless;

who has tested?
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:01 pm

I try. It is fake...
 
djvolt
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:46 pm

Are you sure? :P
http://24.multimediahd.pl/pl/3-60ghz
Upgrades for Mikrotik's devices
 
aerosmith9110
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:25 am

I actually bought a couple LHG60 ( claim: The LHG60 can do 1Gbps full duplex actual throughput (both directions 1Gbps at the same time) but only for shorter runs, like under 2KM. ) despite already having bad exp with LHG 5ac. So, Yeah as much as I can get I would like mikrotik but if Mikrotik will have issues it is unavoidable ( if it is not allowed please point me if there is any and I will gladly remove my post ) to discuss alternative products to replace the ones having issues.
 
SeViLeo
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Are you sure? :P
Unfortunately, it is the truth. Also tested it on the LHG5 AC
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:56 pm

The worst is mikrotik silent
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:35 am

@Mikrotik does not solve the problem. Maybe it's time to try alternative software. Has anyone tried with other software?
 
mistry7
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:38 am

@Mikrotik does not solve the problem. Maybe it's time to try alternative software. Has anyone tried with other software?
For ARM Hardware there is nothing.....
https://openwrt.tetaneutral.net/release ... x/generic/
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:26 pm

Maybe we should pay open wrt to create arm software. Mikrotik won't solve the problem
 
mistry7
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:46 pm

Maybe we should pay open wrt to create arm software. Mikrotik won't solve the problem
Better buy new Hardware, and throw this low cost electronics away
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:47 pm

I think we should Will Be find a solution. We are better to mikrotik. We are very strong. We are the alternative to Big companies. We are democraticed internet. We are the future. If mikrotik can't solve this problem, we can solve it
 
woollettg
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:51 am

Had the misfortune of buying some disclite5 AC units . Replaced deliberant APC units. Worst wireless choice I've ever made. 52db snr, endless dropouts.
Wish I had read this thread b4 buying.
I'm putting these units back in their boxes once the ubnt gear arrives tomorrow.
Stick to making routers mikrotik your arm radio gear isn't fit for sale.
 
aerosmith9110
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:34 am

I think we should Will Be find a solution. We are better to mikrotik. We are very strong. We are the alternative to Big companies. We are democraticed internet. We are the future. If mikrotik can't solve this problem, we can solve it
Unless it is a hardware limitation.
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 pm

At the end on Monday Im going to remove all my arm hardware it's too dificult for me and Too expensive but it's the solution. Bye Mikrotik see you in the hell...
 
ste
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:26 pm

At the end on Monday Im going to remove all my arm hardware it's too dificult for me and Too expensive but it's the solution. Bye Mikrotik see you in the hell...
Dramatic. Phrasing on forums is realy dumb. Go to your local bakery and if they have old bread. Turn to the salesman and wish him to go to hell.
You kids are real world persons, are you ???
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:33 pm

Dramatic is how know that you have an unfix product you sale this product and generaté a Big damage in operator and clients. And the most dramatic is that you don't fix the problem in one year and still sale the product. Bakeries, supermarket and another shops don't sale bad product and if the sale bad product goberment punish them.
 
flynno
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:43 pm

if the sale bad product goberment punish them.
Pure quality stuff right here
 
nescafe2002
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:57 pm

At the end on Monday Im going to remove all my arm hardware it's too dificult for me and Too expensive but it's the solution. Bye Mikrotik see you in the hell...

You made that promise earlier, why are you still here?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=136002&p=693764#p693764
Five years working with @Mikrotik ... Today is the last day. It´s a pitty...
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:01 pm

This was the last day that i buy mikrotik product. I wait that they solve the problem. And them i need change my arm equipment
 
aerosmith9110
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:54 am

wow, I am in the customer service industry and even how irate the customer is, we were trained not to tell them to look for a solution elsewhere or tell them to do good on their threat...

I was expecting response to mfr476 would be:

Hi mfr476,

We apologize that the product is giving you such a headache. We understand your pain and currently we have our top techs on it. This issue has been escalated to our highest level. We already assigned 80% of our engineers to work on the issue.. Unfortunately, we are still looking for solutions. We currently are having issues with 1. ex. 2. ex 3. ex.. and If we still can't find a solution in another month we will be asking assistance from ________ ( a more exp company or engineer ) to solve the problem.

An update every now and then would be nice as it gives your customer a sense that you are indeed are working on the issue but is facing some roadblocks.

But that's just me.
 
drbunsen
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:29 pm

Seems to be company policy to not answer difficult topics and to play dead.
Potential customers are being replied to with product proposals, but whoever already bought is left behind.
 
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normis
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:33 pm

This is not a support forum. Even though I do work at MikroTik, officially this is a user forum, and I also mostly write my personal opinion, not MikroTik opinion.
Please contact MikroTik through official channels if you would like to get "customer support".

MikroTik is well aware of Nv2 issues with ARM devices, but they are not easy to solve, because new chipsets are fundamentally different and Nv2 was made in times when there were different chipsets, different wireless standards, and different requirements*. It's not clear yet, if the issues can be resolved, or when they can be resolved. MikroTik is still working on this issue.

--
* see also: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43612&p=219271&hilit=Nv2#p219271
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
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honzam
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:55 pm

This is not a support forum. Even though I do work at MikroTik, officially this is a user forum, and I also mostly write my personal opinion, not MikroTik opinion.
Please contact MikroTik through official channels if you would like to get "customer support".

MikroTik is well aware of Nv2 issues with ARM devices, but they are not easy to solve, because new chipsets are fundamentally different and Nv2 was made in times when there were different chipsets, different wireless standards, and different requirements*. It's not clear yet, if the issues can be resolved, or when they can be resolved. MikroTik is still working on this issue.
Normis, thanks for reply. It started to look like you have been banned from commenting on this problem.
Yes, we can write for support but we will not know anything about this problem. Your (Mikrotik support) answer was that it will be soon resolved. Nobody responds to other my emails ... Problem still unresolved

If this problem is unsolvable (difficult to solve) you should have reported that all AC devices (ARM) do not support NV2. We would not buy them and did not solve it.
You solve this problem from 2017 and no result !!
Mark
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mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:20 pm

why mikrotik still buy arm if mikrotik know problem?
 
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normis
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:37 pm

Modern protocols are adequate and work really well without Nv2.
Nv2 is only needed if you have large legacy networks and need to add more devices to them.

The simple answer is that Nv2 is an old solution to an old problem, but modern CPUs are not compatible with it and don't really need it. We keep improving Nv2 for ARM, but there is only so much that can be done realistically. New versions are already better than it was.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
mistry7
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:43 pm

Modern protocols are adequate and work really well without Nv2.
Nv2 is only needed if you have large legacy networks and need to add more devices to them.

The simple answer is that Nv2 is an old solution to an old problem, but modern CPUs are not compatible with it and don't really need it. We need to make Nv3 or something else, because software fixes will not be 100% enough. We keep improving Nv2 for ARM, but there is only so much that can be done realistically. New versions are already better than it was.
Hi normis,

we all know about this, but why Mikrotik is stop selling SXTac Lite5, this device works in old networks.
We have much places where we are not able to deliver proper Service with 802.11 (Data + Voip)
we need a TDMA based System.

Will we see NV3?
 
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normis
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:02 pm

There are many reasons why older models can't be made anymore, and why new models have other types of chips, I can't go into that detail.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:48 pm

When works fine 802.11 with ap mipsbe and cpe arm?
 
ste
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:05 pm

There are many reasons why older models can't be made anymore, and why new models have other types of chips, I can't go into that detail.
There are other ways to resolve this, but they need new hardware.

For now you can use any outdoor devices with 802.11n (non AC), they are MIPS, for example LHG, LDF, SXT Lite series, SXTsq Lite series, Disc, Groove, Omnitik etc.
May be you could give some hope by talking on 802.11ax. As there are chipsets available I guess there is something in your labs.
 
2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:09 pm

There are many reasons why older models can't be made anymore, and why new models have other types of chips, I can't go into that detail.
There are other ways to resolve this, but they need new hardware.

For now you can use any outdoor devices with 802.11n (non AC), they are MIPS, for example LHG, LDF, SXT Lite series, SXTsq Lite series, Disc, Groove, Omnitik etc.
May be you could give some hope by talking on 802.11ax. As there are chipsets available I guess there is something in your labs.
We need solutions fast not hope & future promes.
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:21 pm

Modern protocols are adequate and work really well without Nv2.
Nv2 is only needed if you have large legacy networks and need to add more devices to them.

The simple answer is that Nv2 is an old solution to an old problem, but modern CPUs are not compatible with it and don't really need it. We need to make Nv3 or something else, because software fixes will not be 100% enough. We keep improving Nv2 for ARM, but there is only so much that can be done realistically. New versions are already better than it was.
Hehe, that took some time (a year?) to finally get a clear say about this. :D
Even with all my previous posts and tests last year showing NV2 was outperformed by plain 802.11 (and nstreme) if properly configured still this words where never used....

Suggestion: Write a comment in the wireless wiki that in heavy congested, dense populated P2MP network it is best to use 802.11?
(And by the way, I don't see so much difference between misbe or arm units. Even the DiscLite 5Ghz ac unit delivers my 30Mbps package date to the client.)
Just done some test with an 7 client P2MP AP that has overlapping 40Mhz channel with other AP and could push an LHG-5ac together with a DISC-5ac to both some 40-45Mbps, each on its own easy to 100Mbps.
Done the same test with 80Mhz channel (overlapping 3 other AP's) and could both have running some 70-80 each or as a single user could get 180-190Mbps on both...
Total throughput over the AP (Netmetal with RF-elements horn) was some 130Mbps max in 40Mhz but touching 200Mbps on 80Mhz channel....
Networks are in full 'ac' mode. nstreme is almost the same. NV2 sucks... not even half the speeds..... no matter what config I try....

For now good enough for my 30 and 50Mb packages.

I have to admit some of my AP's won't do as good as this one. It's a complicate puzzle to get the best results and signals can only be -60/-65 at its worse. Aim is -50 and preferred is below that.....
(Where I used to have 70% SXT's in my network, most of these are replaced now either by DISC-ac or LHG-ac. 2 years ago -60 was good enough, -70 workable, -80 the limit.....
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

WISP operator based on MT routerboard & ROS.
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:14 pm

Please @Mikrotik we only need that arm works in one protocolo very well, only one...
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:59 am

Please @Mikrotik we only need that arm works in one protocolo very well, only one...
Use csma + RTS/CTS and you're fine...
Show your appreciation of this post by giving me Karma! Thanks.

Rudy R. Puister

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aerosmith9110
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:31 am

I think these could easily been avoided all by indicated in the spec sheet:

Model:
xxxxxxx
Transfer speed via wireless link ( ideal condition )
802 - 400mbps both directions TCP
nv2 -100mbps both directions TCP
nsextreme - 120mbps both directions TCP

something like that. Then the customers would have an informed decision basing on the information given and there will be no threads like this as it would simply be dismissed as " Slower speeds are due to the protocol overhead or it was already indicated in the spec sheets "
 
mfr476
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:33 am

Please @Mikrotik we only need that arm works in one protocolo very well, only one...
Use csma + RTS/CTS and you're fine...
Please @Mikrotik we only need that arm works in one protocolo very well, only one...
Use csma + RTS/CTS and you're fine...
How can i use this with my equipment?
 
2jarek
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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:39 am

Please @Mikrotik we only need that arm works in one protocolo very well, only one...
Use csma + RTS/CTS and you're fine...
1)NV2 802.11N +NV2 @ 20Mhz 100 mbit/s from sector 20 clients.
2)Pure 802.11N +rts/cts @20Mhz 90-20 mbit/s sometimes UPLOAD rates are falling to 6Mbps latency spikes. Some clients lose 90% packet loss (sector 20 clients)

NV2 works great for 20Mhz channel it does not scale correctly for 40/60/80Mhz. For good TCP/IP one session speed need rly good SNR from AP side (collocation problem).

More about RTS/CTS are here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0715000129

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