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Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:44 pm
by InoX
A sector with 15 clients a/n/40mhz and the one I've tested is old single core .ac.
Under each picture you can find the protocol used.
Sadly in 802.11 is not stable and clients gets a lot of disconnections so I'm sticking with nstreme.
The conclusion is Mikrotik have lost speed in any protocol, a lot.
Just for fun.
Are the pictures showing your bandwidth tests on 802.11, NV2 and Nstrem in that order?

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:29 pm
by honzam
I remember when the fastest was nstreme, then NV2 and the worst was 802.11
Today it's exactly the opposite we not need :(

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:08 pm
by networkfudge
A sector with 15 clients a/n/40mhz and the one I've tested is old single core .ac.
Under each picture you can find the protocol used.
Sadly in 802.11 is not stable and clients gets a lot of disconnections so I'm sticking with nstreme.
The conclusion is Mikrotik have lost speed in any protocol, a lot.
Just for fun.
Are the pictures showing your bandwidth tests on 802.11, NV2 and Nstrem in that order?
Yes look at the image names

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:19 pm
by WirelessRudy
A sector with 15 clients a/n/40mhz and the one I've tested is old single core .ac.
Under each picture you can find the protocol used.
Sadly in 802.11 is not stable and clients gets a lot of disconnections so I'm sticking with nstreme.
The conclusion is Mikrotik have lost speed in any protocol, a lot.
Just for fun.
Don't know, by your picture it shows 802.11 is by far the best. And stable. Jitter is the same as the rest and jitter is a measurement of the variation in ping times.

I have now some 50% of my AP running on 802.11 and see a massive increase in speed of users connected. It actually doesn't matter if these clients are all 'n' or predominantly 'n' or all 'ac'.
Throughput is highest on 802.11. But nstreme follows close I must say.
I see no more disconnects in 802.11 then in NV2 or nstreme. But it depends a bit on th eAP. I have 2 AP's that actually see a better nstreme, but slightly. And one AP that gives best result in NV2. Don't know why.

I did a pingplotter test towards several client antenas and had that run for days. Only during times of heave overall usage (overall = all clients on the network) I see higher ping times. But independent of the protocol. But clients speeds are much higher, so those that watch IPTV get higher bursts and leave the network more free then in NV2.

No, the more I work with it and compare the more confidence I get in using 802.11ac as the main protocol for Mikrotik P2MP...

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:52 am
by peson
A sector with 15 clients a/n/40mhz and the one I've tested is old single core .ac.
Under each picture you can find the protocol used.
Sadly in 802.11 is not stable and clients gets a lot of disconnections so I'm sticking with nstreme.
The conclusion is Mikrotik have lost speed in any protocol, a lot.
Just for fun.
Don't know, by your picture it shows 802.11 is by far the best. And stable. Jitter is the same as the rest and jitter is a measurement of the variation in ping times.

I have now some 50% of my AP running on 802.11 and see a massive increase in speed of users connected. It actually doesn't matter if these clients are all 'n' or predominantly 'n' or all 'ac'.
Throughput is highest on 802.11. But nstreme follows close I must say.
I see no more disconnects in 802.11 then in NV2 or nstreme. But it depends a bit on th eAP. I have 2 AP's that actually see a better nstreme, but slightly. And one AP that gives best result in NV2. Don't know why.

I did a pingplotter test towards several client antenas and had that run for days. Only during times of heave overall usage (overall = all clients on the network) I see higher ping times. But independent of the protocol. But clients speeds are much higher, so those that watch IPTV get higher bursts and leave the network more free then in NV2.

No, the more I work with it and compare the more confidence I get in using 802.11ac as the main protocol for Mikrotik P2MP...
That's exactly why I asked, since the statements was "Sadly in 802.11 is not stable and clients gets a lot of disconnections so I'm sticking with nstreme"
From my experience, as Ruby says, 802.11 with rts+cts works best with these ARM ac devices. They are somehow not working well on NV2.
In Nstreme they work well (very stable), but as nstreme protocol limits is reached at ~110-120Mbit it's mostly overcome with 802.11ac. So far, 802.11ac on ARM devices is the best choice. My opinion.

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:39 pm
by networkfudge
So far, 802.11ac on ARM devices is the best choice. My opinion.
My APs are mostly netmetal (mipsbe AC) and my CPEs are typically LHG XL (mipsbe N)
I use NV2 with dynamic downlink of 70/80% and 20Mhz channels

To be fair to Mikrotik, since the couple of changes they made in 2018 our bandwidth per sector shot up from 30-40mbits to 70-80mbits.
This is on par with what we are getting with UBNT AC PRISM APs with Litebeam AC stations, although with Mikrotik we are not having AC stations (this is sadly because of LHG AC problems with NV2!)

So NV2 is currently very happy with 10-20 N clients per netmetal sector on 20mhz channel and I (still) have the tower space AND spectrum to accommodate more as we grow. Yes AC with its denser modulations can add a bit more throughput, but I'm scared to start adding ARM AC CPEs to my network which a) will cross out nv2 as an option and b)may or may not cause me glitches and problems with the other wireless protocols, especially considering that will be combining three different chips (mipsbe, mipsbe-ac and arm-ac)

To conclude, for now our motto is: Better the devil you know than the devil you don't!

If Mikrotik release a NetMetal ARM which would work PERFECTLY with LHG XL AC and GOOD ENOUGH with N clients, that would give us a viable upgrade path for our networks.

Anyone from Mikrotik listening?

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:29 am
by WirelessRudy
So far, 802.11ac on ARM devices is the best choice. My opinion.
My APs are mostly netmetal (mipsbe AC) and my CPEs are typically LHG XL (mipsbe N)
I use NV2 with dynamic downlink of 70/80% and 20Mhz channels

To be fair to Mikrotik, since the couple of changes they made in 2018 our bandwidth per sector shot up from 30-40mbits to 70-80mbits.
This is on par with what we are getting with UBNT AC PRISM APs with Litebeam AC stations, although with Mikrotik we are not having AC stations (this is sadly because of LHG AC problems with NV2!)

So NV2 is currently very happy with 10-20 N clients per netmetal sector on 20mhz channel and I (still) have the tower space AND spectrum to accommodate more as we grow. Yes AC with its denser modulations can add a bit more throughput, but I'm scared to start adding ARM AC CPEs to my network which a) will cross out nv2 as an option and b)may or may not cause me glitches and problems with the other wireless protocols, especially considering that will be combining three different chips (mipsbe, mipsbe-ac and arm-ac)

To conclude, for now our motto is: Better the devil you know than the devil you don't!

If Mikrotik release a NetMetal ARM which would work PERFECTLY with LHG XL AC and GOOD ENOUGH with N clients, that would give us a viable upgrade path for our networks.

Anyone from Mikrotik listening?
Most of my AP's are Netmetals too. But I have one a Basebox 5 with only 'n' clients connected but even that one runs way better in 802.11'n'
Then I have several Omnitiks 5 ac (=mipsbe) with mainly arm devices connected but I see no differences between these mipsbe AP's as the NetMetals.
The only difference is the Omnitiks are working in what they are 360 degrees where the NetMetals all have RF-Element's horns as sectors.

I really see no differences between the different kind of chipsets. It's all about fine tuning and finding the proper frequencies.
And the good thing of 'ac' is you can work with 40Mhz or even 80Mhz where the 'secondairy channels can have some overlap with other AP's for some of the clients. These clients just avoid to use the overlapped channel while the rest of the network can still work with the full bandwidth.
I have now some of my AP's set to 80Mhz wide channels and although there is overlap with other remote AP's I see the speeds go up to the clients and by setting some lower MCS rate fixed I even get better CCQ!

But yeah, finetuning your P2MP is the hot word here. And one new AP or frequency shift from a competitor can throw all your hours of finetuning overboard ..... :?

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:08 pm
by mfr476
my provider has told me that there is no more ap with mipsbe. It is true? I have not bought anything for months and they call me worried. I recently changed all my arm for other manufacturer. I would like to know if mikrotik is going to solve the problem or I have to throw all the arm

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:25 pm
by networkfudge
But yeah, finetuning your P2MP is the hot word here. And one new AP or frequency shift from a competitor can throw all your hours of finetuning overboard ..... :?
Yes its a never ending battle in p2mp. You are very lucky you can get good results on 80mhz. I don't have 80mhz of clean, contiguous spectrum in any direction (I define clean as not picking up other signals in the -80s or stronger). I very rarely get a better result on 40mhz than 20mhz! But even when I do I don't use it unless I really need the extra bandwidth, because it's more chance of fucking up (as per your original point!)

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:45 am
by WirelessRudy
But yeah, finetuning your P2MP is the hot word here. And one new AP or frequency shift from a competitor can throw all your hours of finetuning overboard ..... :?
Yes its a never ending battle in p2mp. You are very lucky you can get good results on 80mhz. I don't have 80mhz of clean, contiguous spectrum in any direction (I define clean as not picking up other signals in the -80s or stronger). I very rarely get a better result on 40mhz than 20mhz! But even when I do I don't use it unless I really need the extra bandwidth, because it's more chance of fucking up (as per your original point!)
According your threshold my environment is not so much different. I have problems finding 40Mhz of 'clear' spectrum, let alone 80Mhz.
But you need to have a good knowledge of you physical environment and the location or your towers, your clients in respect to other towers and their sector antenas.
The good thing of 'ac' protocol is it has some sort of 'interference avoidance' system build in and with the combination of looking for relative high signal strengths. (I try to go for -40, -50 is acceptable, -55 just the limit and beyond that I am either looking for a bigger client antena or to find another solution....)

One of the 'nice' tools you can work with in 802.11 modus is that you can run a scan from both the client or the AP while the connection doesn't get lost.
On an AP looking for its best frequency it is not enough to look for free space '"at" the AP. You also need to know what the client's are been hammered at.
It can well be that where some canals only hit the AP with say -78 or -85 at the client the same 'alien' AP might come in with -50 or worse! So better look somewhere else or this client will see lots of problems. Do this for at least two of the clients spread over your working sector.
It's a lot of work and yeah, hence I work a lot in the middle of the night...
An AP takes several hours to do at times and I have some 40....... meaning that by the time I finished the last, I can start doing the first again.... a never ending battle...

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:48 am
by WirelessRudy
my provider has told me that there is no more ap with mipsbe. It is true? I have not bought anything for months and they call me worried. I recently changed all my arm for other manufacturer. I would like to know if mikrotik is going to solve the problem or I have to throw all the arm
All NetMetals, the preferred AP device, are still mipsbe and widely for sale...
https://mikrotik.com/products/group/wireless-systems

Why consider to ditch the arm devices? I have some 30% of these now in my network and have no more problems with these then the mipsbe devices..... and that is very little.

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:29 am
by alejosalmon
Hello anyone has tried the new Version 6.44rc1 ?

*) wireless - improved system stability for all ARM devices with wireless;
*) wireless - improved system stability for all MIPSBE devices with 802.11ac wireless

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:09 am
by mfr476
I changed my arm because my clients complained and threatened to report me. I only have two lhg ac in a lab ptp and with the latest firmware in 20 mhz these are the results= 50 mbs with ping 60-70...

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:53 pm
by honzam
Hello anyone has tried the new Version 6.44rc1 ?
Wait for RC2:
In the near future a new testing version will released (6.44rc2) that includes updates regarding nv2 issues with various software architectures.

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:16 pm
by mistry7
Hello anyone has tried the new Version 6.44rc1 ?
Wait for RC2:
In the near future a new testing version will released (6.44rc2) that includes updates regarding nv2 issues with various software architectures.
The next rc will not have any new features next rc fixes only issues with current features

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:29 am
by WirelessRudy
I changed my arm because my clients complained and threatened to report me. I only have two lhg ac in a lab ptp and with the latest firmware in 20 mhz these are the results= 50 mbs with ping 60-70...
You are doing something wrong. I run higher (much higher) speeds in a P2MP environment with an AP associated with some 29 clients of different makes, all 'ac' in 802.11ac and can make up to 200Mb download over the AP to clients. Every single client reaches 150Mbps on its one, with 2 both get just over 100mbps, with 3 all three still have some 60Mbps... (80Mhz channel but with lots of overlap over other 5Ghz signal)

If your clients are to report you (for what?) then its because you don't know how to finetune your network.

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:44 am
by 2jarek
I changed my arm because my clients complained and threatened to report me. I only have two lhg ac in a lab ptp and with the latest firmware in 20 mhz these are the results= 50 mbs with ping 60-70...
You are doing something wrong. I run higher (much higher) speeds in a P2MP environment with an AP associated with some 29 clients of different makes, all 'ac' in 802.11ac and can make up to 200Mb download over the AP to clients. Every single client reaches 150Mbps on its one, with 2 both get just over 100mbps, with 3 all three still have some 60Mbps... (80Mhz channel but with lots of overlap over other 5Ghz signal)

If your clients are to report you (for what?) then its because you don't know how to finetune your network.
ARM-ARM BRIDGE or P2MP works like that very unstable & slow!!!!!!!!. MIPSBE-ARM works good only in pure 802.11

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:30 am
by WirelessRudy
I changed my arm because my clients complained and threatened to report me. I only have two lhg ac in a lab ptp and with the latest firmware in 20 mhz these are the results= 50 mbs with ping 60-70...
You are doing something wrong. I run higher (much higher) speeds in a P2MP environment with an AP associated with some 29 clients of different makes, all 'ac' in 802.11ac and can make up to 200Mb download over the AP to clients. Every single client reaches 150Mbps on its one, with 2 both get just over 100mbps, with 3 all three still have some 60Mbps... (80Mhz channel but with lots of overlap over other 5Ghz signal)

If your clients are to report you (for what?) then its because you don't know how to finetune your network.
ARM-ARM BRIDGE or P2MP works like that very unstable & slow!!!!!!!!. MIPSBE-ARM works good only in pure 802.11
True. 802.11 works better for all! Even for mipsbe I get better results in 802.11. Next is nstreme and NV2 is only 60% of what I can get in 802.11.
Last night did some more link tests and ended up 2 more links and one more P2MP switching from NV2 towards 802.11. The last is just so much better.......

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:01 pm
by mfr476
True mipsbe + arm work So so. But arm + arm... My ptp is arm + arm. If anybody can solve the problem please contact me. I pay.

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:23 pm
by normis
We have made some additional improvements for ARM and Nv2. The version with these fixes will be released in the upcoming days.

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:30 pm
by sergesa
ARM-ARM BRIDGE or P2MP works like that very unstable & slow!!!!!!!!. MIPSBE-ARM works good only in pure 802.11
ARM-ARM work ok , 120 Mb TCP 20mHz in 802.11 , some packets lost, but very low
only NV2 problem

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:16 pm
by alejosalmon
sergesa could you please share with us what models in arm have you tested? Thanks

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:51 pm
by mfr476
Is omnitik ac legacy? A vendor said me

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:36 am
by honzam
ARM + NV2. New rc3 firmware looks very good !

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:56 am
by normis
More improvements in next release for Nv2+ARM

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:33 am
by honzam
More improvements in next release for Nv2+ARM
Super! :) Can I ask what happened? Do not solve the problem for years, and now is solved?

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:00 am
by normis
years
:shock:

First post here "22 Jun 2018, 15:25"

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:17 am
by honzam
years
:shock:

First post here "22 Jun 2018, 15:25"
Not here on forum but problem exist from 2017.
What's new in 6.40.2 (2017-Aug-08 13:13):

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:19 am
by WirelessRudy
More improvements in next release for Nv2+ARM
Did you guys look into the time stamps?
"Last Link Up Time" and "Last Link Down Time" show time in the future...... Time on the router itself is right (corrected by sntp protocol) and in the log time stamps are right too.
But the times under the "W60G Station" tab in the Wireless table is still showing impossible times.
The screenshot is taken today, February the 21th at 10:15h.
The disconnect and re-connect took place the 19th, but the events are shown to be happening the 23th! That is next Saturday! Impossible!
Wrong Time stamps.JPG

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:35 am
by normis
Fixes can start when issue is reported and reproduced. We did not know about it when the devices were released.

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:57 am
by honzam
Fixes can start when issue is reported and reproduced. We did not know about it when the devices were released.
From me it is reported to support from Frebruary 2018! I think you have older report from another ISP....
For example there is older topic: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=131174
and other topics on forum....
No matter, I do not want to quarrel. I'm glad you're finally working and solving ... :) Thanks

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:00 pm
by bastys
Will there be some fixes for both 802.11 and nstream?

NV2 is not suitable for ptp links due to higher ping.

There is a high response in 802.11 and is prone to interference

Nstream is best for ptp but the maximum speed is less than for nv2 and 802.11 112M vs. 140M

Does mips not improve the current parameter?

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:02 pm
by normis
please stick to topic, you can make a new topic about nstreme and mips

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:38 pm
by human1982
I think when u fix mixed mode for mipsbe and arm in nv2 u should make nv3 only for arm devices for new bases. This hardware is very good to be competitive and cheep comparing to cambium.

regards

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:18 pm
by xrayd
I cant see rc3 firmware!!!
Where can download?

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:28 pm
by mistry7
I cant see rc3 firmware!!!
Where can download?
No one is talking about RC2 or RC3, we talk about Wireless Protocol NV2

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:49 pm
by honzam
I cant see rc3 firmware!!!
Where can download?
No one is talking about RC2 or RC3, we talk about Wireless Protocol NV2
Yes, we are talking about RC3 firmware, but it is not yet publicly released...

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:01 pm
by xrayd
very nice news! :)

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:13 am
by honzam
More improvements in next release for Nv2+ARM
Will be 6.44rc3 released officially? For all architectures?

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:48 pm
by normis
alright, let us know what you see now:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=145379&p=716706#p716706

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:00 pm
by joserudi
I can not believe it, the nv2 works perfectly in arm with version 6.44rc4 giving more speed and stability than nstreme or 802.11.

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:06 pm
by joserudi
Could a mantbox with an arm routerboard give more speed and number of users than with mipsbe routerboard?

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:36 pm
by WirelessRudy
I can not believe it, the nv2 works perfectly in arm with version 6.44rc4 giving more speed and stability than nstreme or 802.11.
How did you test? How many devices? P2MP? How many associated clients? Did you upgrade the AP only or also its clients?

Before I am going to try this version on one of my live P2MP networks (that all works much better in 802.11 then NV2) I would like to know all these answers.

And no new bugs introduced? Need to see more guys trying this one out.....

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:01 pm
by mfr476
Why do you ask wirelessrudy? You work fine with arm in the past

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:10 pm
by WirelessRudy
Why do you ask wirelessrudy? You work fine with arm in the past
What a weird counter question is this.... You make a claim and people then would like to know how you came to that claim. That's not a weird question, this forum is full of it.

This new release is still wet from its paint and you already claim it made a big improvement. Since I need at least a couple of hours to upgrade and test a full P2MP network for any improvements in a new version I'd wonder how you'd be able to make such claim.

If your claim is based upon two devices communicating and now with the new OS much better, then that doesn't bear too much value. 'On the bench testing' has never been an equivalent to 'real life' testing since the outdoor 'real' conditions that have a major influence on the performance are very different.

Secondly:
I manage to get 802.11 working better then NV2. But according the posts many couldn't So where for these many the new OS might give a better result, I might well be on my network it won't.
And this latter would then imply that the new OS is not an improvement at all......

Hence my questions so I can make up my mind if an immediate upgrade could improve my networks or is it going to be another waste of time..... :)

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:54 pm
by sergesa
ìt really work ! PtP 20MHZ TCP
1. 802.11 105/100
2. NV2 90/80
nv2 work what never before on ARM, but we wait continued improvements

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:31 pm
by WirelessRudy
ìt really work ! PtP 20MHZ TCP
1. 802.11 105/100
2. NV2 90/80
nv2 work what never before on ARM, but we wait continued improvements
This still shows 802.11 is better?
What signal strength on both ends? 1 stream tcp or more? Test between the two devices or from devices behind the two radio's? (like two CCR behind the 'arm' devices)

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:20 pm
by joserudi
Nv2 in PTP with arm works now fine:

802.11 90 Mbps
Nstream 105 Mbps
Nv2 156 Mbps

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:44 pm
by djvolt
156 on 20 or 40mhz???

Re: ARM devices and NV2 protocol

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:58 am
by joserudi
40 MHz 1 tcp between two arm devices.