Community discussions

 
RiniA
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:37 am

Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:17 am

Hello,

Does anyone here know how to make mikrotik wireless devices broadcast country code? I have tried "/interface wireless wlan2 country=netherlands" but my macbook still does not receive a country code from my cap ac, tried wap ac and hap ac as well.
I did a wireless scan with wifi explorer and every device in my street is broadcasting country code, about 50% NL and other 50% EU. One of them that is broadcasting "EU" has a very powerful signal so my macbook chooses EU for country code and disables all 5GHz chanels except 36, 40, 44 and 48 which are of course the chanels all used by that other router. When I set my my accesspoint to use any of these chanels the transfer speed is bad. When I set e.g. chanel 60 I get very good transfer speeds but I must first power on and connect to my old airport express to trick my laptop into country code NL and then reconnect to the Mikrotik
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24268
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:33 am

Wait. It should not matter what the other AP devices are doing. Just set a specific frequency in your MikroTik device and use a unique SSID.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
eddieb
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:04 am

I noticed this behavior too ...
MT devices (like my RB962's) do not transmit a country code.

But, not all do
Some DO, like FritzBox from AVM, Some Samsung device, Some Arcadyan device, Some Ziggo devices (transmit EU)
Some DON'T, Like MT, ZTE devices, Belkin devices, TP-Link devices, Sitecom devices

AND Yes, IF my MacBook gets connected to an AP that is transmitting a countrycode, it seems to adjust some config, not sure exactly what ..
(using Wifi Explorer in OSX to scan)
Running 6.45.7 (stable) on :
CCR1009-8G-1S (2x ipsec/l2tp site-to-site, ipsec/l2tp roadwarrior, dhcpd, dns), CRS125-24G-1S, RB1100, RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT (10pc), RB931-2nD, RB951, RB750GL ,RB2011UAS-RM, CHR running dude (CHR running in VirtualBox on OSX)
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24268
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:10 am

I know it does that, but even if it does, why wouldn't it connect to a MikroTik device that has a statically set frequency?
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
muetzekoeln
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 am

Since many AccessPoints have it and some devices are dependent on it, it maybe worth a feature request.

Mikrotik please add 802.11d support in ROS. It would be great to have country-code and allowed-rf-power in the beacon. Of course there should be an option to disable one or both. Also it would be great to manually override default values. Good example is for europe. Choice of "EU" or national country code like "NL", "DE".
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24268
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:51 am

I understand the request, but can you clarify the reason? Like I said already, code doesn't matter
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3190
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:47 pm

One case: I was running my WiFi 2.4GHz (802.11n) set to channel 13 which is completely legal in my whereabouts. When my better half received a brand new phone LG G4, it wouldn't pick up the signal ... as if it wasn't scanning for it on channel 13. After I inserted SIM card, the mobile configured self and it started to see the AP.

I know it is ridiculous for a WiFi client device to impose any kind of restrictions, however growing number of devices are capable of becoming APs themselves (think WiFi tethering) and in that case they have to follow regulations. If exact location (whatever method of obtaining it) is not known, it is understandable that device runs in a "fail safe" mode, not using any functionality (wireless channel, Tx power) that might be restricted in any part of the World. Device can find out its whereabouts using different methods, including (but not limited to): GPS positioning, MNO decoding and WiFi SSID locating ... for devices without GPS (or without GPS fix) and with no mobile connection (either device doesn't support it or it's not available), WiFi country code broadcast might be a "life saver".

So it's not only about what Mikrotik developers / product managers think is sensible (we, WiFi operators, might completely agree with MT's view), it's also about how client devices behave.
BR,
Metod
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 24268
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:14 pm

Yes, but your example has nothing to do with the transmitted country code. The phone has a built-in scan list, it wouldn't use channel 13 in certain regions, regardless of what the AP is transmitting as the country code in it's beacons.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 3190
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:04 pm

Yes, but your example has nothing to do with the transmitted country code. The phone has a built-in scan list, it wouldn't use channel 13 in certain regions, regardless of what the AP is transmitting as the country code in it's beacons.
Again: phone needs something to figure out the region of current existence. If nothing else is available, CC emitted in beacons by AP would help.
BR,
Metod
 
RiniA
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:37 am

Re: Country Code

Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:45 pm

My problem is with my Laptop, at work our wifi is broadcasting Country Code 'NL'
Systemprofiler shows: Supported channels: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64, 100, 104, 108, 112, 116, 120, 124, 128, 132, 136, 140
So I can connect to company wifi wich is at channel 100 without problem

Then I return home, I can see my own Wifi in the airport menu, I know it is configured at channel 60, but connect fails and the I look again in System profiler, i see Country Code 'EU' and Supported channels: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 36, 40, 44, 48 Rest is gone. So I assume that this is caused by lack of this code.
Mikrotik allows me to change every setting and more. But country code is just not there, while it is on most other routers.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:19 am

Normis, so what about 802.11d? I have to drive idle next to tp-link to shake the correct country code.
ImageImage
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5923
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: Country Code

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:59 pm

The issue apparently is that some client devices look at what other APs are transmitting to then lock their settings to the country code they receive there, instead of first looking for the correct SSID and then connecting there without country code (and thus no locked settings).
This may be related to some other behavior I see from some devices: to connect to EVERY AP that they see to try if they get admitted there and to freeride on the internet if they do.
But, also causing loggings of breakin attempt including their MAC address in case the attempt fails. The users probably don't know that!

You could see if this method of working is somehow configurable in your device. When you turn it off, the bad behavior of using other people's country code could be gone as well.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:29 pm

The issue apparently is that some client devices look at what other APs are transmitting to then lock their settings to the country code they receive there, instead of first looking for the correct SSID and then connecting there without country code (and thus no locked settings).
This may be related to some other behavior I see from some devices: to connect to EVERY AP that they see to try if they get admitted there and to freeride on the internet if they do.
But, also causing loggings of breakin attempt including their MAC address in case the attempt fails. The users probably don't know that!

You could see if this method of working is somehow configurable in your device. When you turn it off, the bad behavior of using other people's country code could be gone as well.
Hello, no, it’s completely wrong. MacOs wants to see the code country from the AP, over 802.11d. if it does not receive it, it takes the first one who broadcasts from neighboring ones.

As an example, AirPort Extreme translates the country code over 802.11d.
ImageImage
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5923
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: Country Code

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:02 pm

Time to transmit the country code of a country that does not allow WiFi! Fun...
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:10 pm

Time to transmit the country code of a country that does not allow WiFi! Fun...
?
ImageImage
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5923
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: Country Code

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:40 pm

Well I think it is pretty broken to listen to what other people's devices (you have no control over) transmit and take it as authoritative.
But it is probably required by law in the USA.
 
r00t
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:14 am

Re: Country Code

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:58 pm

But main issue here is that without 802.11d you get problems with some devices to connect.
And it can't be fixed in any other way, you can't just tell your clients to buy different notebook or phone.
Good luck explaining to your boss why he can't connect to your WIFI with his macbook...
11d is standardized, adds just a few bytes to beacon and solves the problem... so why it's not supported already?
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:25 pm

But main issue here is that without 802.11d you get problems with some devices to connect.
And it can't be fixed in any other way, you can't just tell your clients to buy different notebook or phone.
Good luck explaining to your boss why he can't connect to your WIFI with his macbook...
11d is standardized, adds just a few bytes to beacon and solves the problem... so why it's not supported already?
👍🏻
ImageImage
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:42 am

Normis, Reinis
what about 802.11d?
ImageImage
 
RiniA
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:37 am

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:15 am

I now have a workaround that seems to work most of the time: plug in an old apple airport basestation, set up with a not-used SSID and on different channels to prevent performance decrease of your regular network. Most important: set the desired country code. unplug the basestation from your network if necessary and place it not too far away from your devices.

Now when you start or wake a device it will see the apple station with correct country code. and your device will have none problem connecting to your own wireless network even if it is MT that lacks 802.11d itself, maybe they read this too and feel ashamed ?

Turns out these Apple aiport devices weren't that bad after all. Especialy the latest extreme 'towers' delivered pretty high speed as well.
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:12 am

Apple's implementation of 802.11d is a real pain in the ass, indeed.
And setting the correct country code on the AP in use won't solve the problem in some cases.
For example (at least for some older macbooks's), if there are changes in country regulations, they are not updated in the drivers.
So if some channels were restricted to use in your country in the past, there is a big chance that you won't be able to use them even if they are not restricted anymore.
The best workaround is to completely disable 802.11d on a device, but that needs kext modifications, and typically does't survive apple's security updates.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:09 am

Apple's implementation of 802.11d is a real pain in the ass, indeed.
And setting the correct country code on the AP in use won't solve the problem in some cases.
For example (at least for some older macbooks's), if there are changes in country regulations, they are not updated in the drivers.
So if some channels were restricted to use in your country in the past, there is a big chance that you won't be able to use them even if they are not restricted anymore.
The best workaround is to completely disable 802.11d on a device, but that needs kext modifications, and typically does't survive apple's security updates.
not a true statement, on all models since 2012, everything is fine with 802.11d. The AP must broadcast 802.11d. a piece of shit - tp-link even does it.
Last edited by TimurA on Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:10 am

I now have a workaround that seems to work most of the time: plug in an old apple airport basestation, set up with a not-used SSID and on different channels to prevent performance decrease of your regular network. Most important: set the desired country code. unplug the basestation from your network if necessary and place it not too far away from your devices.

Now when you start or wake a device it will see the apple station with correct country code. and your device will have none problem connecting to your own wireless network even if it is MT that lacks 802.11d itself, maybe they read this too and feel ashamed ?

Turns out these Apple aiport devices weren't that bad after all. Especialy the latest extreme 'towers' delivered pretty high speed as well.
That's right, I started using tp-link for this.
ImageImage
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:43 am

not a true statement, on all models since 2012, everything is fine with 802.11d. The AP must broadcast 802.11d. a piece of shit - tp-link even does it.
That is a known problem for pre-2012 devices.
Your "everything is fine with 802.11d" most likely means that apple no longer uses 802.11d at all, or at least uses something else in addition :)
802.11d is a deprecated protocol.
And since 2015 it is forbidden for devices to set locale based solely on 802.11d.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:07 am

not a true statement, on all models since 2012, everything is fine with 802.11d. The AP must broadcast 802.11d. a piece of shit - tp-link even does it.
That is a known problem for pre-2012 devices.
Your "everything is fine with 802.11d" most likely means that apple no longer uses 802.11d at all, or at least uses something else in addition :)
802.11d is a deprecated protocol.
And since 2015 it is forbidden for devices to set locale based solely on 802.11d.
It’s not a matter of language standard, but of channel distribution for each region. For this, Apple uses 802.11d. What is difficult to broadcast the region? Budget devices do it - tp-link, d-link

macbook pro 2019 15" core i9 - if it doesn’t see 802.11d, it’s a region. Takes from a neighboring network - who broadcasts it.
ImageImage
 
Reinis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:14 pm
Location: Latvia
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:57 am

Thank you for informing us about your concerns regarding the issue.

Currently MikroTik has no plans of implementing 802.11d as it's already not allowed to rely solely on 802.11d for setting country-specific radio parameters in USA since 2015, thus most of the phone, laptop etc. manufacturers most likely have made the changes in their drivers and/or software to obey the law (I highly doubt that they would split such change between models)
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:00 am

Thank you for informing us about your concerns regarding the issue.

Currently MikroTik has no plans of implementing 802.11d as it's already not allowed to rely solely on 802.11d for setting country-specific radio parameters in USA since 2015, thus most of the phone, laptop etc. manufacturers most likely have made the changes in their drivers and/or software to obey the law (I highly doubt that they would split such change between models)
it is clear. In what standard then the region is now hung up? 802.11h? Why then is this happening with Apple? Are they so stubborn?
ImageImage
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5923
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:03 am

Currently MikroTik has no plans of implementing 802.11d as it's already not allowed to rely solely on 802.11d for setting country-specific radio parameters in USA since 2015, thus most of the phone, laptop etc. manufacturers most likely have made the changes in their drivers and/or software to obey the law (I highly doubt that they would split such change between models)
That is a misunderstanding! It is not allowed for USA certified equipment to interpret received countrycodes to extend capabilities beyond the USA allowed ones, as you already know you have to sell USA-specific hardware.
However, that is totally different from TRANSMITTING the countrycode in the beacons, which is of course still allowed, and apparently some clients have issues around that.
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:04 am

not a true statement, on all models since 2012, everything is fine with 802.11d. The AP must broadcast 802.11d. a piece of shit - tp-link even does it.
That is a known problem for pre-2012 devices.
Your "everything is fine with 802.11d" most likely means that apple no longer uses 802.11d at all, or at least uses something else in addition :)
802.11d is a deprecated protocol.
And since 2015 it is forbidden for devices to set locale based solely on 802.11d.
It’s not a matter of language standard, but of channel distribution for each region. For this, Apple uses 802.11d. What is difficult to broadcast the region? Budget devices do it - tp-link, d-link

macbook pro 2019 15" core i9 - if it doesn’t see 802.11d, it’s a region. Takes from a neighboring network - who broadcasts it.
As I already said, now it’s forbidden to set region based only on 802.11d.
So apple MUST do it differently, than it did pre-2012. That is why it works fine in new devices, and still does’t work in the older ones.

Bottom line: devices CAN use 802.11d to help them set the region, but they CAN NOT use ONLY 802.11d, they need something else - gps, whatever.
Thus support of 802.11d is nearly useless - all modern devices will set the region without it.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:12 am


Bottom line: devices CAN use 802.11d to help them set the region, but they CAN NOT use ONLY 802.11d, they need something else - gps, whatever.
Thus support of 802.11d is nearly useless - all modern devices will set the region without it.
no and no again. I have a mikrotik network. Regoin Apple can not determine, and sees a network nearby on tp-link and takes strange from it.
This is a very simple experiment! What gps? We are talking about a real example - MacBook Pro 2019 15 "
ImageImage
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:17 am


Bottom line: devices CAN use 802.11d to help them set the region, but they CAN NOT use ONLY 802.11d, they need something else - gps, whatever.
Thus support of 802.11d is nearly useless - all modern devices will set the region without it.
no and no again. I have a mikrotik network. Regoin Apple can not determine, and sees a network nearby on tp-link and takes strange from it.
This is a very simple experiment! What gps? We are talking about a real example - MacBook Pro 2019 15 "
Then why have you disagreed with my original statement, that apple’s implementation of 802.11d is screwed?! 😂
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:26 am


Bottom line: devices CAN use 802.11d to help them set the region, but they CAN NOT use ONLY 802.11d, they need something else - gps, whatever.
Thus support of 802.11d is nearly useless - all modern devices will set the region without it.
no and no again. I have a mikrotik network. Regoin Apple can not determine, and sees a network nearby on tp-link and takes strange from it.
This is a very simple experiment! What gps? We are talking about a real example - MacBook Pro 2019 15 "
I don’t need another evidence than my own: I have mikrotik network at home and if I do nothing my 2010 macbook takes region from nearby networks and since in the drivers it’s said that I can use 5Ghz only in 802.11a not in 802.11n in my region, I am not able to use 5Ghz networks on normal speed.
So I need to disable 802.11d at all.
 
RiniA
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:37 am

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:28 am

My devices are indeed 2011 macbookpro's, i have 13", 15" and 17". They work great, and is see many people that still prefer them over the new models with the bad keyboards. I dont expect Apple to change the way they work anymore as they are all vintage by now.

At the places I install wifi installations, eg schools, musea, resturants, i just limit the 5GHz channels to 36-48 now. So visitors don't notice this issue.

The problem has just come up since a year or so when a large ISP in our country (Ziggo) is sending wifi routers with country-code eu to their customers. So it bothers me that Mikrotik don't add this option as well. They could leave it off by default.

Thanks for the TP-link tip, they are realy cheap.
 
muetzekoeln
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:32 am

802.11d is a deprecated protocol.
I cannot find a reference for this. Where to find?

And since 2015 it is forbidden for devices to set locale based solely on 802.11d.
This is for FCC only, as far as I know. And there is an exception (https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment. ... mber=39498):

Country information derived from multiple adjacent access points (for example using IEEE Std 802.11d provisions) may be permitted on case-by-case basis.
 
Reinis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:14 pm
Location: Latvia
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:46 am

I cannot find a reference for this. Where to find?
Modern (by modern I mean few years old phones/devices) mostly do not really on the protocol but use other means to know it's geo-location. We can always cherry pick "special" manufacturers/devices that simply use restrictions by their programmers/company opinion (like enforcing 802.11d always with no way to disable it, or enforcing WMM-Power save while the devices software shows that it should be disabled etc.)

This is for FCC only, as far as I know. And there is an exception (https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment. ... mber=39498):
Yes, I already stated that it's only for USA market and meant for host devices that connect to the AP, but there is no use for an AP if there are no clients, so client restrictions have to be taken into consideration.

That is a misunderstanding! It is not allowed for USA certified equipment to interpret received countrycodes to extend capabilities beyond the USA allowed ones, as you already know you have to sell USA-specific hardware.
However, that is totally different from TRANSMITTING the countrycode in the beacons, which is of course still allowed, and apparently some clients have issues around that.
And you're deliberately missing my point, I never said that the regulations are "TRANSMITTING" related
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:49 am


Bottom line: devices CAN use 802.11d to help them set the region, but they CAN NOT use ONLY 802.11d, they need something else - gps, whatever.
Thus support of 802.11d is nearly useless - all modern devices will set the region without it.
no and no again. I have a mikrotik network. Regoin Apple can not determine, and sees a network nearby on tp-link and takes strange from it.
This is a very simple experiment! What gps? We are talking about a real example - MacBook Pro 2019 15 "
Then why have you disagreed with my original statement, that apple’s implementation of 802.11d is screwed?! 😂
😡Will your arm break off to check? Set yourself the USA, or Latvia region, and next look at what you say from RU networks. No fool to turn on
ImageImage
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:05 pm


Bottom line: devices CAN use 802.11d to help them set the region, but they CAN NOT use ONLY 802.11d, they need something else - gps, whatever.
Thus support of 802.11d is nearly useless - all modern devices will set the region without it.
no and no again. I have a mikrotik network. Regoin Apple can not determine, and sees a network nearby on tp-link and takes strange from it.
This is a very simple experiment! What gps? We are talking about a real example - MacBook Pro 2019 15 "
I don’t need another evidence than my own: I have mikrotik network at home and if I do nothing my 2010 macbook takes region from nearby networks and since in the drivers it’s said that I can use 5Ghz only in 802.11a not in 802.11n in my region, I am not able to use 5Ghz networks on normal speed.
So I need to disable 802.11d at all.
Your answer says it all, you don’t need to. We need. People need it.
There is a saying - like it? then use for personal purposes for yourself.
macbook 2010 kek 🤣
ImageImage
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code  [SOLVED]

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:50 pm


Bottom line: devices CAN use 802.11d to help them set the region, but they CAN NOT use ONLY 802.11d, they need something else - gps, whatever.
Thus support of 802.11d is nearly useless - all modern devices will set the region without it.
no and no again. I have a mikrotik network. Regoin Apple can not determine, and sees a network nearby on tp-link and takes strange from it.
This is a very simple experiment! What gps? We are talking about a real example - MacBook Pro 2019 15 "
Then why have you disagreed with my original statement, that apple’s implementation of 802.11d is screwed?! 😂
😡Will your arm break off to check? Set yourself the USA, or Latvia region, and next look at what you say from RU networks. No fool to turn on
To check what?

Once again.
I have an old 2010 macbook pro, which is capable to use 802.11n @ 5Ghz
If region is FR or US or maybe something else, it works OK.
If region is set to RU - it works @5GHz only in 802.11a mode. Not OK.
Country regulations for RU changed, but that changes never made their way into the driver.

So I have two ways to overcome the issue:
1) Set another region on AP - and possibly violate some country regulations.
2) Disable 802.11d in macbook.

Tried multiple times. As a matter of fact - after every security update, because all modifications to the driver are removed and I need to redo them.

The problem is in the macbook, because it uses 802.11d in improper way, and no one cares to make the correct drivers for old devices.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:20 pm

Once again.
I have an old 2010 macbook pro, which is capable to use 802.11n @ 5Ghz
If region is FR or US or maybe something else, it works OK.
If region is set to RU - it works @5GHz only in 802.11a mode. Not OK.
Country regulations for RU changed, but that changes never made their way into the driver.
I talked about this from the very beginning - re-read it. Only you have a special case in 2010. The new 802.11ac - restriction on visible channels. That is the problem.
So I have two ways to overcome the issue:
1) Set another region on AP - and possibly violate some country regulations.
2) Disable 802.11d in macbook.
1. Here - that's what I’m talking about. Mikrotik does not broadcast the region.
2.A crutch is not the right way. (Will you be able to fix the problem with your electric car at home? or give it to an authorized service ?!)
Tried multiple times. As a matter of fact - after every security update, because all modifications to the driver are removed and I need to redo them.

The problem is in the macbook, because it uses 802.11d in improper way, and no one cares to make the correct drivers for old devices.
This is not an Apple issue. This is a problem for router manufacturers. Asus everything works, Tp-Link everything works. Cobminium everything works, Cisco everything works.
But Mikrotik does not want to do this.

PS
And one more thing: they seem to have problems with wave2, there is no region, and other devices stupidly do not see the network.
ImageImage
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:57 pm


I talked about this from the very beginning - re-read it. Only you have a special case in 2010. The new 802.11ac - restriction on visible channels. That is the problem.
It's not a special case, It's a long known issue with a known workaround.
Although it's not exactly the same problem, it is connected, and my original thesis was, that apple's approach to 802.11d is a headache both for you and me.
For me the problem is, that Apple doesn't upgrade region settings in old drivers and at the same time forces me to use 802.11d
So even if mikrotik implement 802.11d it won't help me in any way.

For you the problem is that apple devices rely only on 802.11d to set the region ignoring the absence of any other info.

1. Here - that's what I’m talking about. Mikrotik does not broadcast the region.
2.A crutch is not the right way. (Will you be able to fix the problem with your electric car at home? or give it to an authorized service ?!)
1. Won't help me.
2. Apple can help me, but don't want to. So the only way is to do it myself.
 
Reinis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:14 pm
Location: Latvia
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:58 pm

1. Here - that's what I’m talking about. Mikrotik does not broadcast the region.
I've already provided the current situation ON the matter: "Currently MikroTik has no plans of implementing 802.11d"


This is not an Apple issue. This is a problem for router manufacturers. Asus everything works, Tp-Link everything works. Cobminium everything works, Cisco everything works.
You are blaming router manufacturers for not implementing a protocol that is rarely used on any device newer than nearly 10 years, which also is an "optional" protocol? Where the issues arise only if the HOST manufacturer forces to use the mentioned protocol and does not give an option to disable it, am I understanding your statement correctly?
Note, that issue can only arise if the nearby AP's have wrong country settings and the whole process is fully done on the HOST device side


And one more thing: they seem to have problems with wave2, there is no region, and other devices stupidly do not see the network.
There are no problems with wave2 as calling "feature that has not been yet added" a problem is also deliberately false statement. And regarding the country/region, it's controlled on HOST device side, not AP
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:14 pm

I've already provided the current situation ON the matter: "Currently MikroTik has no plans of implementing 802.11d"
This was clear from your first answer. But still we would like to see support. There are many situations where miracles begin because of this. And in the end, the customer does not choose your equipment - and we have nothing to argue.
You are blaming router manufacturers for not implementing a protocol that is rarely used on any device newer than nearly 10 years, which also is an "optional" protocol? Where the issues arise only if the HOST manufacturer forces to use the mentioned protocol and does not give an option to disable it, am I understanding your statement correctly?
Note, that issue can only arise if the nearby AP's have wrong country settings and the whole process is fully done on the HOST device side
No, we do not blame you, you misinterpreted. The whole debate lies in the need for support - you said that you will not. Ok.
We can’t go in and breaks into a building where the wrong region is being broadcast and demand correction. The police will be called: D
There are no problems with wave2 as calling "feature that has not been yet added" a problem is also deliberately false statement. And regarding the country/region, it's controlled on HOST device side, not AP
I understood you.
ImageImage
 
Reinis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:14 pm
Location: Latvia
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:19 pm

This was clear from your first answer. But still we would like to see support. There are many situations where miracles begin because of this. And in the end, the customer does not choose your equipment - and we have nothing to argue.
We understand the request and of course, if possible, we would support every possible customer desire, but the world isn't perfect and resources are not infinite.
The protocol has been added to the "TODO" list, but I cannot comment on the ETA of it.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:21 pm

It's not a special case, It's a long known issue with a known workaround.
Although it's not exactly the same problem, it is connected, and my original thesis was, that apple's approach to 802.11d is a headache both for you and me.
For me the problem is, that Apple doesn't upgrade region settings in old drivers and at the same time forces me to use 802.11d
So even if mikrotik implement 802.11d it won't help me in any way.
My personal headache was using Mikrotik at home. All other manufacturers have no problem with this situation. Regarding 802.11d.
They do not realize, was Reinis's answer. And if implemented, it will help. Checked.
For you the problem is that apple devices rely only on 802.11d to set the region ignoring the absence of any other info.
If there is no other information. You have to broadcast the region for Mikrotik with another device. 😂
Last edited by TimurA on Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage
 
muetzekoeln
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:25 pm

Since many AccessPoints have it and some devices are dependent on it, it maybe worth a feature request.

Mikrotik please add 802.11d support in ROS. It would be great to have country-code and allowed-rf-power in the beacon. Of course there should be an option to disable one or both. Also it would be great to manually override default values. Good example is for europe. Choice of "EU" or national country code like "NL", "DE".

In addition, it would be great (for debugging purposes of course) to choose country-code independent from set regulatory-domain country (e.g. for superchannel).
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:30 pm

This was clear from your first answer. But still we would like to see support. There are many situations where miracles begin because of this. And in the end, the customer does not choose your equipment - and we have nothing to argue.
We understand the request and of course, if possible, we would support every possible customer desire, but the world isn't perfect and resources are not infinite.
The protocol has been added to the "TODO" list, but I cannot comment on the ETA of it.
Thank you so much Reinis !!!!
ImageImage
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:17 pm

If there is no other information. You have to broadcast the region for Mikrotik with another device. 😂
Smartphones and other mobile devices have GPS, they don't need 802.11d at all.

Out of curiosity looked what regions do APs around broadcast at the moment, only half of them are set to the correct region, the rest do not broadcast region at all or broadcast wrong region.
The whole concept to rely on 3rd party APs to set your own region, if your own AP doesn't specify one, without an option to manually override it is ridiculous!
If some router nearby is violating local regulations you may find yourself doing the same involuntarily.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:37 pm

Smartphones and other mobile devices have GPS, they don't need 802.11d at all.
That's right, but all the rest of the equipment is needed.
Out of curiosity looked what regions do APs around broadcast at the moment, only half of them are set to the correct region, the rest do not broadcast region at all or broadcast wrong region.
The whole concept to rely on 3rd party APs to set your own region, if your own AP doesn't specify one, without an option to manually override it is ridiculous!
If some router nearby is violating local regulations you may find yourself doing the same involuntarily.
There are different situations. As an example, a foreign representative office, where there are many visitors and workers from other countries. And they configure their access points for their region. Corporate requirement.
ImageImage
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5923
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:08 pm

That is a misunderstanding! It is not allowed for USA certified equipment to interpret received countrycodes to extend capabilities beyond the USA allowed ones, as you already know you have to sell USA-specific hardware.
However, that is totally different from TRANSMITTING the countrycode in the beacons, which is of course still allowed, and apparently some clients have issues around that.
And you're deliberately missing my point, I never said that the regulations are "TRANSMITTING" related
It seems you are not getting that what people request here is implementation of 802.11d for TRANSMIT (some fields in the beacon), NOT implementing the 802.11d protocol to make the router (when used as a WiFi client) respect the 802.11d protocol as sent by other routers.
This is only to tell some (broken? old?) equipment what is your country code, because when you do not do that they act upon country codes sent by other routers (broken! but it won't be fixed).

In general when working on software that interworks with other software, like a WiFi router and clients, it is always easy to point to the others and say "it is your side that is broken" but in many situations it is easy to work around that in the own software and not so easy to get others to fix their things.
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Smartphones and other mobile devices have GPS, they don't need 802.11d at all.
That's right, but all the rest of the equipment is needed.
The rest of the equipment should use something like "no-country-set" or ask the user, if it can't locate it's position with 100% accuracy.
Out of curiosity looked what regions do APs around broadcast at the moment, only half of them are set to the correct region, the rest do not broadcast region at all or broadcast wrong region.
The whole concept to rely on 3rd party APs to set your own region, if your own AP doesn't specify one, without an option to manually override it is ridiculous!
If some router nearby is violating local regulations you may find yourself doing the same involuntarily.
There are different situations. As an example, a foreign representative office, where there are many visitors and workers from other countries. And they configure their access points for their region. Corporate requirement.
You understand that technically it can be illegal, right?
Using settings for your region in other country just because it better suits you?
And with 802.11d you can find yourself using illegal settings in your own country just because you are near some foreign congress with a lot of people who don't care about local laws.
 
pe1chl
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 5923
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:34 pm

Please stop posting about what can happen when you interpret 802.11d country codes sent by others and focus on the request to send the 802.11d country code in a MikroTik AP so that others (broken, old, whatever) can pick it up and do whatever they were programmed to do with it!
 
User avatar
xvo
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:57 pm

Please stop posting about what can happen when you interpret 802.11d country codes sent by others and focus on the request to send the 802.11d country code in a MikroTik AP so that others (broken, old, whatever) can pick it up and do whatever they were programmed to do with it!
I am totally with you on this matter: 802.11d is at least useless and at most harmful protocol (maybe not by itself, but in the way other manufacturers treat it), and it should not be implemented, especially having in mind that the same time can be spent to implement some new/useful/long awaited things instead.
 
TimurA
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 am
Location: Tashkent
Contact:

Re: Country Code

Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:27 pm

The rest of the equipment should use something like "no-country-set" or ask the user, if it can't locate it's position with 100% accuracy.

You understand that technically it can be illegal, right?
Using settings for your region in other country just because it better suits you?
And with 802.11d you can find yourself using illegal settings in your own country just because you are near some foreign congress with a lot of people who don't care about local laws.
Laws apply to access points by radiation exposure. Everything below a certain power, each country has its own standards, is individual. I already wrote above, try to prove that the established region is bothering you, the police will be poisoned you as a hindrance to privacy.
ImageImage
 
RiniA
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:37 am

Re: Country Code

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:35 pm

Thank you all for participating in this discussion. As I understand 802.11d support is now on the todo list for mikrotik and for the time being we can work around the issue by using some other equipment just to send out the desired country code.

And when the country code setting is made available, im am sure it can be disabled if it is not needed or wanted. Maybe because you only have devices that are not doing anything with that information at all, or you don't have neigbors' routers that are transmitting unexpected or incorrect country codes and you can't do anything to prevent them from doing so. In which case you are just lucky i guess.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests