Community discussions

 
mikrobee
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:47 pm

Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Fri May 31, 2019 12:48 pm

I'm wondering how I could best implement wireless coverage in an apartment with no ethernet links between AP's, due to the buildings design it will proce very difficult to run data cable to other rooms.
Vague plan so far:
Connect modem to MK wireless router via ether1, in the hallway outside setup another MK device as a wireless dhcp client on wlan 1 or 2, and setup a vlan or use wlan 1 or 2 to broadcast an SSID to the next device and repeat the process throughout so coverage in complete. I would place the devices close enough so that SNR is acceptable. WAN link speed is 40-50 mbps down, haven't tested upload yet but I'm guessing it's between 5 and 25 mbps.

Suggestions please? Capsman, mesh?

Thank you,

Matt
 
LSan83
just joined
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:35 am
Location: Italy

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Fri May 31, 2019 10:25 pm

Have you considered Powerline?
PWR-LINE e PWR-Line AP can use the eletric grid to expand your wifi. Or you can wait for Mikrotik access point with mesh (Audience) announced last March ( viewtopic.php?t=146191 ).
 
User avatar
ingdaka
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:06 pm
Location: Albania
Contact:

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:14 pm

Ilir Daka
Electronic & Network Engineer
E-mail: ilirdaka@live.com
Mob: +355692982151
WhatsApp: +355692982151
Mikrotik Official Consultant
CCNA | Fortinet NSE3 | MTCRE | MTCSE
 
anav
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2835
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:38 pm

@ingdaka......... Please do some research before suggesting a powerline product that although announced new is really circa 2011. The top powerlines are using QCA7500 chips with a 10/100/1000 ethernet connection.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:38 pm

@anav: we're on Mikrotik forum and @ingdaka was suggesting Mikrotik's state-of-art gear. Indeed he could have mentioned that other devices exist which might perform better.
BR,
Metod
 
gotsprings
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 9:30 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:39 pm

There are mesh products you may have to look into, from other vendors.
Last edited by gotsprings on Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Mark Twain
 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 23998
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:10 pm

@ingdaka......... Please do some research before suggesting a powerline product that although announced new is really circa 2011. The top powerlines are using QCA7500 chips with a 10/100/1000 ethernet connection.
what is your point here? did you see OPs requirements?
PWR-Line can easily fulfil what the original poster asked.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
WeWiNet
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:36 pm

Fully agree with Normis.

Powerline does a very good job even if its 100Mbps ethernet.
Will consume much less power than 1G devices (and be smaller) and you have reliable link
compared to Wifi.

Another option could be the new "Audience" product which was announced at some MUM, but
has not come to market yet.
WeWiNet

**
MTCNA
hapac2, map, hap-lite, ltap-mini, RB4011 :-) !!!
 
anav
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2835
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:59 am

Perhaps the rest of the world has no aspirations for faster ethernet? It keeps increasing where I am....
I always attempt to plan for a few years down the line which tends to stretch my dollar, euro, peso a bit farther.
Sorry I cannot and will not condone a non gigabit ethernet device in this day and age unless if its for low volume LOT devices................
There is no excuse for MT to actually use a chip (in a new product) that is way past its prime in terms of throughput and ability to handle across circuits in a home.
Oh Normis I am sending you a brand new computer with a 40 gig hard drive, it has a powerful I3 processor and an on board 10/100 nic card and a 33.6k modem in case your ISP is a telco.
( Maybe I am just bitter because they didnt call me to ask my 'expert' opinion first. ;-) )
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
Bivvy
newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:36 am

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:44 am

We've used a number of options to improve coverage in large buildings.
1. Power line - it's OK as a starting point but performance is variable and can get expensive quickly if you go for faster speeds and multiple nodes
2. Mesh WiFi - works well. Several vendors available - TP-Link DECO M5 set of 3 is mid price/performance. Unfortunately no MT mesh kit available
3. Hardwire to MT Access Points and use CAPsMAN to allow roaming between the AP's

Have a look at http://f4rn.org.uk/faqs/faq-wifi/ for the advice we give us our customers

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

 
User avatar
normis
MikroTik Support
MikroTik Support
Posts: 23998
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:47 am

anav, the original poster said they need 50Mbit total.
When the time in future comes and his country can cheaply provide him 500Mbit or more, there will be options to upgrade.
Why spend more now?
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:01 am

2. Mesh WiFi - works well.

Mesh WiFi works well when wireless signal can spread quite freely. Which is not the case inside buildings with concrete (inner) walls. In that case the only solution is wires ... either (preferably) UTP or power line. Or fibre optics :wink:
Power line has problem passing automatic fuses (they contain tiny coils which attenuate high-frequency signals) so even power line might not be answer to every question (and high-speed variants of home-plug standard have bigger problems with these fuses).
BR,
Metod
 
anav
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2835
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:29 pm

Good to know mkx, are the automatic fuses common in apartment building and the like?
The only technology I was aware of vis-a-vis fuses was the mind blowing stuff of digital fuses currently being funded by major fuse manufacturers.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
anav
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2835
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:30 pm

anav, the original poster said they need 50Mbit total.
When the time in future comes and his country can cheaply provide him 500Mbit or more, there will be options to upgrade.
Why spend more now?
Disagree, for a nominal few more bucks, one gets future growth capacity and better circuit technology. Worth it in my opinion, but yes its up the individuals wallet.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:26 pm

Good to know mkx, are the automatic fuses common in apartment building and the like?
In vicinity of where I live (like 1000 km radius) automatic fuses somehow became standard for new wirings (either new buildings or adapted old flats/buildings). Only old people (like my parents who actually need power-line network) still use those old fuses which have to be replaced every time they blow. :wink:
BR,
Metod
 
anav
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2835
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:53 pm

Good to know mkx, are the automatic fuses common in apartment building and the like?
In vicinity of where I live (like 1000 km radius) automatic fuses somehow became standard for new wirings (either new buildings or adapted old flats/buildings). Only old people (like my parents who actually need power-line network) still use those old fuses which have to be replaced every time they blow. :wink:
Okay because ours don't blow they trip and you just reset them if tripped........... If that is what you mean your advice is wrong as powerline works well in our house through these fuses.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
uldise
just joined
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:48 pm

aren't there a special devices to overcome these automatic fuses problem?
 
mikrobee
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:52 pm

Thanks so much for the replies everyone. I set a notification so I'd know if I got on, they never arrived. Powerline is out of the question. I have used it before and it's mostly been terribly unreliable. In this apartment the power outlets would be on 2-3 separate circuits, each with their own breaker. It looks like 3rd party mesh may be my only hope. According to electricianss I've spoken to running data cable through the walls of other apartmnents in this building has been near impossible unless the walls are cracked open to do so.

Has anyone had experience with Google wi-fi?
 
Paternot
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:01 am
Location: Niterói / Brazil

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:43 pm

According to electricianss I've spoken to running data cable through the walls of other apartmnents in this building has been near impossible unless the walls are cracked open to do so.
Do you have a landline? Is your landline available in several rooms? I used it to pass the ethernet cable. It doesn't even have to reach all rooms: just enough to give decent wifi coverage.
 
mikrobee
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:00 pm

Thanks Patenot,
I've looked at these: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/product_info ... cts_id=341
they could help in places if there's twisted pair in place. Have you found this solution to be reliable?
 
Paternot
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:01 am
Location: Niterói / Brazil

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:13 pm

Thanks Patenot,
I've looked at these: https://shop.duxtel.com.au/product_info ... cts_id=341
they could help in places if there's twisted pair in place. Have you found this solution to be reliable?
I have never used this one. But they need a CAT5 ethernet cabel - they doesn't use the same twisted pairs as phones do. I was talking about using the existing phone passages in order to pass ethernet cables. Usually You can cram a CAT5 and the phone twisted pair in the same place.
 
mikrobee
just joined
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:47 pm

I’ll be been told by the MK distributor here is Australia that that module can convert twisted pair to Ethernet unless I’m mistaken. You can use an MK SFP router at both ends to get the job done apparently. The building is an unusual set up, as I said earlier electricians have had a terrible time trying to run data cable. I’m getting one out to the apartment to asses. Failing that it’s mesh wi fi and maybe SFP twisted pair to ethernet if possible I guess.
 
muetzekoeln
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:09 pm

I have connected two appartements by POTS (plain old telephone system) wires using a pair of G.HN modems giving about 500Mbit/s combined up+down. Formerly I used a pair of VDSL modems for this giving 100/100 with profile 30a.

Unfortunately none of this hardware is made by MT.
 
Paternot
Long time Member
Long time Member
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:01 am
Location: Niterói / Brazil

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:19 pm

I’ll be been told by the MK distributor here is Australia that that module can convert twisted pair to Ethernet unless I’m mistaken. You can use an MK SFP router at both ends to get the job done apparently. The building is an unusual set up, as I said earlier electricians have had a terrible time trying to run data cable. I’m getting one out to the apartment to asses. Failing that it’s mesh wi fi and maybe SFP twisted pair to ethernet if possible I guess.
There are modules that, indeed, use twisted pair. AFAIK this isn't one of them.
 
muetzekoeln
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:23 pm

aren't there a special devices to overcome these automatic fuses problem?
Yes. See here:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=142967&p=704556#p704556
 
uldise
just joined
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:40 pm

Can you provide a link to these phase coupling devices as an example?
 
muetzekoeln
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:44 pm

 
WeWiNet
Member Candidate
Member Candidate
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:33 am

Just to have fun (and not let this subject die that fast :-)), power line does a good job!

Considering apartments / dense urban environments:
1.) In such environment you will be sooner or later interference limited on 5GHz Wifi as well (you might already be today in most European cities).
Specially now that most routers/boxes have 5Ghz and DFS limitations.
So basically today what you get between 4x4 AP and 3x3 client (like macbook) is probably the best you ever get
and in the future you might even get less. (until the new 6GHz Wifi comes in 2 years or so).
So "designing you network for the future" is just not possible with Wifi in dense environment and I would say do ethernet cabling if you really want
1G+ (10G?) throughout your home/apartment guaranteed.

2.) previous PLC devices were not as good as today. Even the 100Mbps class devices have SW/FW improvements which increased
the performance/reliability dramatically till today! Whatever you tesed with PLC 3 years ago does not apply anymore.

3.) What ever you get with PLC you have it, and its not taking your Wifi bandwidth away.

4.) Always plug PLC on the power plug directly. Not on a multi plug extension line. Best are PLC passthrough plugs for that.

So all in all, seeing the financial effort (low) to use PLC, I would give it a try with NEW products (like the Mtik ones) if you want your throughput
guaranteed!

Now if you life in a Castel in Nova Scottland (or someplace like that), then the situation is different. But that is not the starting point of this discussion.
(and then get you a 8x8 AP).

Personal opinion, don't shoot the messenger...
WeWiNet

**
MTCNA
hapac2, map, hap-lite, ltap-mini, RB4011 :-) !!!
 
mkx
Forum Guru
Forum Guru
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Large Apartment, no Ethernet

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:54 pm

Now if you life in a Castel in Nova Scottland (or someplace like that), then the situation is different.
The Chateau in Nova Scotia contains more fibre per sq ft. than a typical bowl of breakfast cereal. :lol: No need for PLC, wireless mesh or any of those low-tech solutions.
BR,
Metod

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests