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NV3

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:51 pm
by mfr476
Is Mikrotik working in nv3? Nv2 is not enought...

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:59 pm
by Zacharias
Is Mikrotik working in nv3? Nv2 is not enought...
Are you talking about the nv2 wireless protocol???
If yes, there is no nv3....

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:21 am
by mfr476
nv3 is a symbolic name for an important wireless improvement. in n nv2 it gives more speed than in ac

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:34 am
by normis
So what would you expect in such a fantasy protocol, what are your wishes?

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:54 am
by mfr476
I only expect a protocol capable of competing with the rest of the manufacturers and that is superior to the N protocol

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:02 am
by normis
Are you talking about another proprietary point to point protocol exclusive for MikroTik outdoor links?

Why ?

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:21 am
by mfr476
I speak of a protocol tdma / ofdma adapted to the needs dw today: video games, streaming etc etc ... in addition to useful tools such as spectral scanning. The nv2 is fine but needs a tuning capable of getting higher speeds and achieve greater stability. Before I was above the wisp who work with ubnt today they take advantage of me.

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:24 am
by Zacharias
I speak of a protocol tdma / ofdma adapted to the needs dw today: video games, streaming etc etc ... in addition to useful tools such as spectral scanning. The nv2 is fine but needs a tuning capable of getting higher speeds and achieve greater stability. Before I was above the wisp who work with ubnt today they take advantage of me.
There is spectral scanning...
What speeds are you trying to achieve...?
The stability is fine to me...

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:25 am
by mfr476
70 megabytes is enough for you in 20 mhz ac?

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:28 am
by Zacharias
70 megabytes is enough for you in 20 mhz ac?
No, because you cant achieve a better speed it doesnt mean its the protocols fault.
Most likely there is something wrong with your configuration....

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:37 am
by normis
With 802.11ac you can easily get 500-600mbits without even trying too hard.

Nv3 will not help your games, because nv2 it is for mikrotik devices only.

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:03 am
by mfr476
nv2 does not lose packages and improves the online game. I would like to know the correct configuration so that a mantbox19s ac get 500-600 megabytes easy in 20 mhz with nv2

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:04 am
by normis
Why are you insisting on using 20MHz and Nv2? Just try modern protocols

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:10 am
by Zacharias
nv2 does not lose packages and improves the online game. I would like to know the correct configuration so that a mantbox19s ac get 500-600 megabytes easy in 20 mhz with nv2
Did you try changing your frequency?
Also higher the channel width then greater the speed is.. Did you try with 40Mhz Channel width?
What is the distance of your p2p link?
Any obstacles?
What is the values of Tx/Rx on your station's registration table? CCQ value?
There are so many factors that can affect the quality of your link...

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:13 am
by mfr476
give me an example of configuration with mantbox19s ac without loss of packages with new Normis protocols please. Since I have 20 mhz free there are many interferences.

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:47 am
by Zacharias
give me an example of configuration with mantbox19s ac without loss of packages with new Normis protocols please. Since I have 20 mhz free there are many interferences.
Did you search in the wiki? There are a lot of examples there.

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:52 pm
by mfr476
please share what is the best configuration of the wiki I try it this afternoon and share results in the forum

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:53 pm
by normis
There is no perfect example, each situation requires adjustments, based on circumstances. I suggest to hire a local consultant who can check how to improve your setup, or you can attend a MTCWE training class.

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:25 pm
by mfr476
In an interfered environment, which is the best Normis protocol?

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:32 pm
by normis
Nothing is perfect in interference conditions. Change frequency to a better one.

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:38 pm
by mfr476
What protocol do you recommend that you have not lost packages? I suppose there will be an alternative to nv2 as it is an old protocol.

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:46 pm
by normis
Read above

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:06 pm
by mfr476
From what I see nv2 is an old protocol, I must use a new protocol: 802.11ac that loses packets. sorry for the waste of time for the question. I thought mikrotik was solving the nv2 with ac but I see that "it is solved already" Greetings.

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:17 pm
by mistry7
From what I see nv2 is an old protocol, I must use a new protocol: 802.11ac that loses packets. sorry for the waste of time for the question. I thought mikrotik was solving the nv2 with ac but I see that "it is solved already" Greetings.
There is No Future for WISP with Mikrotik Wireless!

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:25 pm
by normis
So you are saying that you need new protocol, because nv2 doesn't work, because you have interference.
And you blame 802.11ac ?

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:26 pm
by Zacharias
From what I see nv2 is an old protocol, I must use a new protocol: 802.11ac that loses packets. sorry for the waste of time for the question. I thought mikrotik was solving the nv2 with ac but I see that "it is solved already" Greetings.
I have achieved great results with nv2, nstreme and 802.11...
You just have to know what protocol to use and when..

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:37 pm
by mistry7
So you are saying that you need new protocol, because nv2 doesn't work, because you have interference.
And you blame 802.11ac ?
With 802.11ac, Polluted Spektrum, in PTMP it is impossible to deliver jitter free Internet and VoIP Service

There is TDMA needed and NV2 archives more than poor speeds with 802.11ac Hardware

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:17 pm
by mfr476
Zacharias please share the result

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:57 pm
by server8
We don't need NV3 we need modern hardware that allows modern TDMA software like other vendors :-)

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:22 pm
by Zacharias
Zacharias please share the result
Will that help you in the configuration of your point to point link?

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:58 pm
by mfr476
I need help in ptmp I only have 60-70 mb in free 20mhz without loss packet

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:46 am
by zakynthoswifi
give me an example of configuration with mantbox19s ac without loss of packages with new Normis protocols please. Since I have 20 mhz free there are many interferences.
You said (i think) that you are deployed an ptp link, so WHY you are using mantbox 19 ? Is a sector antenna that covers 120 deg.
please give us more info about your peering devices, distance and a schematic would be usefull!

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:12 pm
by mfr476
I use mantbox19s in multipoint

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:30 pm
by zakynthoswifi
please attach your wireless config here and answer all of my questions above in order to help you

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:52 pm
by cmanuelsantos
@Normis
When a clients ask about nv2 or nv3 is because normally we use it for outdoor deployment.

In which universe can you get 500 Mbps for outdoor wireless? Specially when getting 40 client in an AP?
When you say use modern protocol, are you saying NV2 is logacy and not suitable for todays network.

I am a small wisp with 200 mikrotik CPE and I can tell you that it is very difficult to reach 70Mbps in an AP with 35 clients on mikrotik. However, i have also UBNT, Cambium and Mimosa and they are able to deliver more bandwidrh and more stable latency than mikrotik.

If you have any recomendation as to how you can get better results with mikrotik devices, please provide it.

I can also tell you that the clients (we wisp) are getting out of patience with mikrotik and that this kind of answer are not right.

If you dont want to improve the tdma wireless protocol and not provide any answer to the clients, please go ahead, but later dont ask why you lost that market.

People will look for an alternative solution and if that solution work, they will not come back.

With 802.11ac you can easily get 500-600mbits without even trying too hard.

Nv3 will not help your games, because nv2 it is for mikrotik devices only.

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:11 pm
by mfr476
this is the harsh reality ... any manufacturer today offers better results and the worst is the way to deal with the situation that Mikrotik has ... a few months ago I changed quite a lot for this problem and if from here at the end of the year the ac does not improve ... I will have to change the rest ... It is very sad that they deny reality from mikrotik. the wisp would appreciate a sincere response

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:37 am
by mistry7
this is the harsh reality ... any manufacturer today offers better results and the worst is the way to deal with the situation that Mikrotik has ... a few months ago I changed quite a lot for this problem and if from here at the end of the year the ac does not improve ... I will have to change the rest ... It is very sad that they deny reality from mikrotik. the wisp would appreciate a sincere response
Mikrotik´s Business decision is clear, take a look to the available Products for WISP, there are only low Cost devices available.
All Devices has poor shielding, not useable for busy arears (when i do scan at worst place on Omnitik i see about 25 Networks)
Devices with Metal shielding did not get update to Wave 2 (And Mikrotik Wireless Driver is only Suitable for Wave 2 to step by step, a long way....)
For RB´s there is no PCIe with Wave 2 (so we cannot build something by our own, Modules from another Manufactores/ Chipsets are not supported)

They decide to lost this market, but they do not communicate that, because the sales would go to bottom line, if the do so.
They want to sell in low cost market, low fares for regions where customers are not able to pay much

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:20 pm
by mfr476
This is true mikrotik?

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:12 pm
by mistry7
This is true mikrotik?
Silence is your answer....

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:30 pm
by Zacharias
...not useable for busy arears (when i do scan at worst place on Omnitik i see about 25 Networks)
Sorry but i do not agree with you....
I got many ptp and ptmp links in busy areas inside the city that perform as expected...

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:50 pm
by mistry7
...not useable for busy arears (when i do scan at worst place on Omnitik i see about 25 Networks)
Sorry but i do not agree with you....
I got many ptp and ptmp links in busy areas inside the city that perform as expected...
What is expected?
What plans you are offering?
we have 50 / 75 / 100 and 200MBit plans

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:52 pm
by mfr476
let's wait one more day for an answer from mikrotik. 50 megabytes plans with mikrotik are practically impossible

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:33 am
by Zacharias
Expected means the results were great. The plans we offer are almost same to yours.

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:52 am
by mfr476
Incredible! get in touch with mikrotik and sell your secret they will pay you well

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:27 pm
by Zacharias
Incredible! get in touch with mikrotik and sell your secret they will pay you well
It's not a secret. It's correct configurations.
Have you ever study any of those manuals in the Wiki??? I believe you haven't.
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... e/Wireless
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Wireless_FAQ
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Wireless_Setups

Have you attended a Mikrotik Wireless class, MTCWE ?

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:07 pm
by mfr476
Anyone else in the world who with mikrotik can give 100 megabytes in ptmp?

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:55 pm
by cmanuelsantos
Incredible! get in touch with mikrotik and sell your secret they will pay you well
It's not a secret. It's correct configurations.
Have you ever study any of those manuals in the Wiki??? I believe you haven't.
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... e/Wireless
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Wireless_FAQ
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Wireless_Setups

Have you attended a Mikrotik Wireless class, MTCWE ?

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:46 pm
by mfr476
and here ends this forum topic. always the same, any person defends the brand but nobody shows even an antenna speed test to prove it and how not always blame the bad configuration.

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:03 pm
by mistry7
and here ends this forum topic. always the same, any person defends the brand but nobody shows even an antenna speed test to prove it and how not always blame the bad configuration.
And no answer to that what i wrote

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:37 pm
by mfr476
This is the truth Mistry7. Ac never Will work...

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:05 am
by cmanuelsantos
Incredible! get in touch with mikrotik and sell your secret they will pay you well
It's not a secret. It's correct configurations.
Have you ever study any of those manuals in the Wiki??? I believe you haven't.
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... e/Wireless
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Wireless_FAQ
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Wireless_Setups

Have you attended a Mikrotik Wireless class, MTCWE ?

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:49 am
by RogerWilco
and here ends this forum topic. always the same, any person defends the brand but nobody shows even an antenna speed test to prove it and how not always blame the bad configuration.
You've yet to post your own configuration...

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:52 am
by mfr476
I don't think that sharing a configuration that doesn't work brings something. What would be really useful is that you would share a configuration that works. for example, the 50-75-100-200 megabytes plans. That would be great but as it is impossible they won't do it

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:54 am
by normis
Yes, it does bring something :D

You are one person complaining here, but there are thousands of successful setups out there, where nobody has the need to come into forums with their complaints. If you have something wrong, how about instead of baseless complaining, you actually post a question like "This is what I have, these are the photos, this is my configuration, can I improve something?"

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:36 am
by Zacharias
Normis i totally agree with you...
+1

I don't understand why someone must prove that his configuration works....better than his configuration :D :D :D

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:04 am
by mfr476
okay. Tell me which firmware version I use. I'm going to do two lab, one in an interfered zone and the other without interfering. Tell me also what protocol I use to start. If someone else can do the same lab I would appreciate it.

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:50 pm
by cmanuelsantos
Yes, it does bring something :D

You are one person complaining here, but there are thousands of successful setups out there, where nobody has the need to come into forums with their complaints. If you have something wrong, how about instead of baseless complaining, you actually post a question like "This is what I have, these are the photos, this is my configuration, can I improve something?"

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:13 pm
by mfr476
It's hard to keep relying on a brand that doesn't even give an example of how to use their products. I think Mikrotik is the only manufacturer in the world that doesn't show how to use its products

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:28 pm
by Zacharias
It's hard to keep relying on a brand that doesn't even give an example of how to use their products. I think Mikrotik is the only manufacturer in the world that doesn't show how to use its products
There is a great Manual https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:TOC with many many examples...

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:20 pm
by mfr476
please tell me a firmware and a protocol that I will do the lab and publish the results

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:33 am
by RogerWilco
please tell me a firmware and a protocol that I will do the lab and publish the results
Just post your config. How hard is it?
Would you contact Microsoft and say "look, Windows 10 isn't working. Can you send me a setup that does so I can compare it to mine?"
Of course you wouldn't. Either post your config (that doesn't work) or piss off and stop spamming the forum.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:48 am
by server8
Nv2 works really better if we considering the old hardware and driver available (netmetal, sxt ac sa, ecc)

The main problem is that mikrotik are missing some hardware features like sync and dynamic RF filters (ubiquiti airmax series) and very modern features like mu-mimo and beamforming (cambium epmp3k series).

We can hope in 802.11AX and we know that they are working on it viewtopic.php?f=7&t=144776&p=746312#p746312 but we don't know the road map

So if Normis & co can tell us the state of 802.11ax development this can help us to take strategic decision for the close future.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:06 am
by mistry7
Yes, it does bring something :D

You are one person complaining here, but there are thousands of successful setups out there, where nobody has the need to come into forums with their complaints. If you have something wrong, how about instead of baseless complaining, you actually post a question like "This is what I have, these are the photos, this is my configuration, can I improve something?"
Here my config:

AP: (Omnitik AC)

/interface wireless
antenna-gain=7 band=5ghz-n/ac channel-width=20/40mhz-XX disabled=no frequency=5620 country=germany disabled=no frequency-mode=regulatory-domain installation=outdoor radio-name=A165MZach scan-list=5470-5740 security-profile=sicher ssid=165ZACH01 wireless-protocol=802.11

/queue interface
set wlan1 queue=only-hardware-queue


CPE:

/interface wireless
antenna-gain=16 band=5ghz-n/ac channel-width=20/40mhz-XX country=germany disabled=no frequency=5630 frequency-mode=regulatory-domain
installation=outdoor scan-list=5470-5740 security-profile=sicher ssid=165ZACH01 station-roaming=disabled

BB test from WAP60G to CPE SXTsqac (Both 4 Core CPU)
Bildschirmfoto 2019-09-28 um 09.05.31.png
Bildschirmfoto 2019-09-28 um 09.03.15.png

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:17 am
by Zacharias
mistry7 do you get better resutls with nstreme or nv2?

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:26 am
by mistry7
mistry7 do you get better resutls with nstreme or nv2?
Nstreme about 60-70 MBit
Nv2 around 80 MBit

And this is not an Busy area

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:51 am
by Zacharias
Perhaps a change of frequence would correct that. Most of the times i get the best results in ptp and ptmp links with either nstreme or nv2...
Anyways, nice mistry7 :D :D

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:01 pm
by mistry7
Perhaps a change of frequence would correct that. Most of the times i get the best results in ptp and ptmp links with either nstreme or nv2...
Anyways, nice mistry7 :D :D
With Ac equipment i don´t see this
Bildschirmfoto 2019-09-28 um 11.01.01.png
Without spectrum scan, i would choose this channel, this about 30Mhz +/- doesn't do anything

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:10 pm
by mistry7
Another Thing P2P:


clean 40 MHz , 8 km , RF-Elements 550 Dish, TPA-RBC with RBM11G and R11e-5HacD
Receive Signals about -62, Clear LOS, Clear Fressnel, CCQ jumping from 85-99%

Max Throughput with 802.11ac about 130Mbit Ping about 1-15ms
with NV2 under 90 Mbit, NStreme not usable, often disconnects

Exchange to Mimosa C5C, same dish, no changes on alignment.

Throughput with 20 MHz 120 MBit Ping 1ms
Throughput with 40 MHz 270 MBit Ping 1 ms

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:46 pm
by marcin21
@mistry7

+1000

other Manufacturer with "M" shows giant gap in between protocols.

.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:07 pm
by mistry7
@mistry7

+1000

other Manufacturer with "M" shows giant gap in between protocols.

.
Right, and i cant believe that Mikrotik cannot do the same, if they want to, i do not see anything going forward .......
There are no new things for WISP after release of AC Hardware....
No Step forward in 5 Ghz, and the 60Ghz Line is missing the included 5Ghz Backup
Only fixes for ROS that allows to normally use the sold equipment. (ARM NV2 Bug)

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:48 pm
by mfr476
This is my configuration. I have asked you to recommend a firware and they have not done so I consider that anyone is good and I do not think I have to change that, right ?, On the other hand that accuses me of spaner. I will not stop telling the truth because others like you deny reality. To the others who defend the correct functioning of the ac with easy results of 500-700 megabytes is your moment, tell me that I have to change to have those results.

PD: This is a lab

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:51 pm
by andriys
The very first thing you should do is to stop using built-in btest tool (bandwidth test). It is known to be CPU hungry on its own. When testing bandwidth, always do it through device you test, and never to/from that device.

Disclaimer: I am just pointing to an obvious mistake here. I'm not in any way an expert in outdoor wireless, and so cannot comment on your configuration or test results (should the testing be done properly) with confidence.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 pm
by mistry7
The very first thing you should do is to stop using built-in btest tool (bandwidth test). It is known to be CPU hungry on its own. When testing bandwidth, always do it through device you test, and never to/from that device.

Disclaimer: I am just pointing to an obvious mistake here. I'm not in any way an expert in outdoor wireless, and so cannot comment on your configuration or test results (should the testing be done properly) with confidence.
If you Reed my answer Then you See i die test From Wap.60G and not from the Omnitik

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:15 am
by Zacharias
If you want to achieve 700+ Mbit go for an LHG60Ghz

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:18 am
by mfr476
No Zacharias. In this fórum we speak about 5 ghz. Now tell me what changes I make to go from 60 mb to 500 easy or recognize that the arm with a tdma protocol does not work and explain what you are going to do. in the arm and nv2 thread you have already done it.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:17 pm
by andriys
If you Reed my answer Then you See i die test From Wap.60G and not from the Omnitik
mistry7, If you were careful enough, you would see I was replying to mfr476, and not you. And looking at his/her screenshots I'd rather suggest he/she runs btest straight on the device being tested.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:25 pm
by mfr476
I've tried from a ccr and I only get 10 megabytes more ... Mistry7 hace the sale problem and need a solution too

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:59 pm
by mistry7
I've tried from a ccr and I only get 10 megabytes more ... Mistry7 hace the sale problem and need a solution too
Our Solution is clear, we spent about 15-20k € Every year in Mikrotik this year under 2k, because Mikrotik is Legacy!

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:50 pm
by mfr476
Once again we were alone Mistry7 and others that we have the problems with the 5ghz of mikrotik. no one responds to anyone who said they had very good results, mikrotik workers no longer respond, once again mikrotik leaves us ...

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:44 pm
by cmanuelsantos
Not only that. Mikrotik has @Normis to respond to client.
That guy treats clients as idiot when giving you a technical answer and does not show any respect or interest.
If a client is complaining about something should be because he or she has an issue.
Mikrotik assumes that their product works 100% of the time and if you have a problem it is you that do not know anything.

I have finally found a solution:
Cambium elevate for the SXT Lite 5 and LHG 5.
For the 802.11AC devices, I will sell them on ebay to buy airmax or cambium.
That works for mikrotik and that works for me.

It is cheaper to migrate now than waiting for a solution.
Once again we were alone Mistry7 and others that we have the problems with the 5ghz of mikrotik. no one responds to anyone who said they had very good results, mikrotik workers no longer respond, once again mikrotik leaves us ...

Re: NV3

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:13 pm
by ronniee
You are right mfr476, Mikrotik's Wi-Fi performance is much worse than it used to be, compared to its competitors.
Maybe they have given up this wireless ISP area.
But if they told us, we wouldn't fix it, and we are invest more to buy Cambium.
This days you can't survive with 5mbit delivered to the clients. We need to give 20-30mbit x 25 client/AP = 500Mbit.
How can we do this if one Mikrotik PtMP AP can't deliver more than 100Mbit???

And in this time Mikrotik has working on GPEN, honestly if they had done 5-6 years ago, would be perfect, but now is toooo late.

So NV3 or NV4 is a good request! ASAP! And not cheap shits.
+1

@ cmanuelsantos
what kind of Cambium AP need to buy to get better perfomance with SXT Lite 5 NV2 clients?
thanks

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:25 am
by cmanuelsantos
I am testing the cambium elevate. It is a fimrware you load into mikrotik hardware. I works with all the cambium features ( it is the cambium software for CPE only).

In the AP side i am using the EPMP 3000.

I will let you know 1 to 2 days how the upgrade proccess goes and shows you the test results.

You can try sending me a private messege, i will keep you updated.




You are right mfr476, Mikrotik's Wi-Fi performance is much worse than it used to be, compared to its competitors.
Maybe they have given up this wireless ISP area.
But if they told us, we wouldn't fix it, and we are invest more to buy Cambium.
This days you can't survive with 5mbit delivered to the clients. We need to give 20-30mbit x 25 client/AP = 500Mbit.
How can we do this if one Mikrotik PtMP AP can't deliver more than 100Mbit???

And in this time Mikrotik has working on GPEN, honestly if they had done 5-6 years ago, would be perfect, but now is toooo late.

So NV3 or NV4 is a good request! ASAP! And not cheap shits.
+1

@ cmanuelsantos
what kind of Cambium AP need to buy to get better perfomance with SXT Lite 5 NV2 clients?
thanks

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:46 am
by comet48
I was looking to deploy some Mikrotik wireless gear. After reading this thread, I think I'm going to investigate other options!

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:32 am
by mfr476
Normis answers please. If mikrotik is not going to continue in the world of wisp, it is best to recognize it and not make people lose their money and time.

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:40 am
by server8
I have something around a 250 Mikrotik AP with 6200+ users.

Nv2 work well if we consider the old AP hardware (netmetal, sxt sa, ecc) other vendors outperform mikrotik due a modern hardware that helps a modern TDMA protocol to works better.

What miss in mikortik outdoor hardware?

- dynamic RF filter
- gps synk
- mu-mimo
- beamforimg
- OFDMA

802.11ax 'd be the solutions to our wireless problems and we know that mikrotik is working on it but we don't have any roadmap or idea.

Normis please open your mind and let know us if we can expect something new in the 2020 and what :-)

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:08 pm
by ste
Nv2 work well if we consider the old AP hardware (netmetal, sxt sa, ecc)
No. MT missed the step to 802.11ac. It does not work better than 11n with MT gear despite HW/CPUs are newer/better. NV2 is reliable but slow.

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:12 pm
by mfr476
I think that mikrotik wireless devices are not well programmed .... Anyway mikrotik does not respond.

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:02 am
by plisken
This is the result with a 1 km link test that I made.
Note that the SXT does not support full duplex.
It cannot send and receive at the same time.
This link test was performed at 80 MHz. bandwidth.
I am not in favor of that and normally I always use the 20 MHz. bandwidth. Not even Ce, just 20 MHz.
Remember, the more bandwidth the more disruptions your link receives. 80 MHz. bandwidth not feasible to achieve a stable connection.
This test was performed on the 802.11 ac and also with the Nv2 protocol.
In dutch but you see the setup and the configuration script.

https://www.wirelessinfo.be/1km-linktes ... -g-5hpacd/

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:44 am
by hapi
You better wipe this misery.

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:56 am
by mfr476
ac antennas with mipsbe if they worked well. Mipsbe is legacy. Please do not spam

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:56 am
by plisken
ac antennas with mipsbe if they worked well. Mipsbe is legacy. Please do not spam
What do you mean SPAM? is this for the link to my website?

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:02 pm
by mfr476
It is not spam in the traditional sense. These devices are no longer sold so we cannot use them. Mikrotik only sells AC with arm for customers. The mipsbe worked fine

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:41 pm
by plisken
I have not paid attention to the fact that all CPE devices are equipped with ARM CPUs. I don't have an ARM CPU yet and I didn't know this.
My last purchase was this: https://mikrotik.com/product/wireless_wire_dish
But must still fully test it.
Sorry for this mistake, I was just trying to help you.
regards

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:31 pm
by mfr476
mipsbe ac and 60 ghz work fine but the 5 ghz arm ac neither work nor do anything to fix it

Re: NV3

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:18 pm
by plisken
Sorry to hear that.
Normally I use Ubiquiti material to build up Point to Point connections. They are much better at throughput.
Sorry Mikrotik I hope it will be worked on in the future.
Don't let us down on wireless level.
This is also important for many Mikrotik customers.
A tip to Mikrotik also implement the necessary filters on the wireless devices.
Good dishes protected against interference would be a must.
Even if it costs a little bit more.

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:17 am
by scampbell
This is my configuration. I have asked you to recommend a firware and they have not done so I consider that anyone is good and I do not think I have to change that, right ?, On the other hand that accuses me of spaner. I will not stop telling the truth because others like you deny reality. To the others who defend the correct functioning of the ac with easy results of 500-700 megabytes is your moment, tell me that I have to change to have those results.

PD: This is a lab
Hi mfr476,

Looking at your registration table shows you to be connecting at around the correct air rates for a 20MHz channel with two spatial chains. Please refer to http://mcsindex.com/ for what speeds you can expect, irrespective of device vendor. You will see it is not physically possible to get a much faster air-rate than you are achieving on 20Mhz.

Putting aside the recommendation of testing through a link rather than from the AP to the Client (which degrades the result as we are told) data rate is typically half the air rate due to protocol overheads etc.

Using UDP gives you a stream of packets going one way only and this is at top theoretical speed. If you use TCP, you get a bidirectional stream of packets - data to the client and ACK packets going the reverse direction.

If there is any interference or packet loss, you'll get re-transmissions of data reducing the total amount of data transmitted in a given amount of time. (CCQ indicates the percentage of received to lost packets)

Wireless is half duplex (unless you use nstream-dual which uses two radio cards) , so TCP interrupts the data stream to return the ACK handshake. Hence why TCP is slower than UDP.
udptcp.jpg
UDP is how other vendors often test their links so be sure to check comparison speed test methods as well as results.

You mention you want 200Mbps plans for your customers so referring back to the MCS table you need to achieve MCS15 at 40MHz AC to get 400Mbs air rate and so 200 Mbps data rate.

Next issue is contention - how many customers are sharing this at any given moment ? NV2 uses TDMA and allocates a time slot to each client and one spare slot for new clients to connect on so the more customers connected the more timeslots so the lower the throughput for any one customer. For sure if 90% of the people are doing nothing then the 10% will get good throughput but during busy times everyone slows down. Increasing the TDMA Period can help but this results in increased latency.

This is one of the reason WISP's like to split sectors into 45 degrees or less and keep the number of clients per AP down.

Trying to give customers the same speeds as your P2P backhauls is unrealistic unfortunately.

The only real solution to bandwidth is more 20MHz channels and more spatial chains. Again look at the MCS table to see this. Every manufacturer has this physical reality to face.

Another brand starting with M use GPS to synchronise AP's and re-use bandwidth - this means multiple AP's running the same 80MHz channel width giving much faster client speeds. The price for this is increased latency. But it does work. Mikrotik do a similar thing with NV2 Syncing but I have had only limited success with that.

If there were to be a mythical NV3 - GPS syncing is the feature I would like :-) [ assuming someone is listening :-) ]

All of this is moot if there is no more channel space available - no one works well in a noisy environment but NV2 tends to work better than 802.11 for me. Ultimately though CCQ, Signal Strength and SNR are the two things you need to sort. Mikrotik give you advanced noise immunity settings and other tools to help but good aerial choice, screening and channel selection solve more issues for me than anything else.

NV2, Nstream or 802.11 ? On P2P I like Nstream or 802.11, on P2MP I like NV2. These are personal choices and everyone has their own opinion based on experience and environment.

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:56 am
by mfr476
Thank you very much scampbell your information is very important to me. I only have to know if mikrotik bet on the wisp or have us abandoned to our fate. I think the war between ubnt and mikrotik is over and in the end we were wrong on the side

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:10 am
by ste
Thank you very much scampbell your information is very important to me. I only have to know if mikrotik bet on the wisp or have us abandoned to our fate. I think the war between ubnt and mikrotik is over and in the end we were wrong on the side
There is no war, there are other vendors and there is no network with only one vendor. E.g. UBNT routers are weak while CCRs are powerful. CRS317 is a great cheap 10GB switch. On the wireless side there are solutions above ubnt esp. with ptp licensed.

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:14 pm
by mfr476
it is not clear to me if mikrotik is still betting on the wisp or not ...

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:23 pm
by ste
it is not clear to me if mikrotik is still betting on the wisp or not ...
They build/announced LTE Basestations. I guess MT will not get into the big carrier market so this targets WISPs. The do not put much effort into the wifi based stuff. Seems not the market to grow. UBNT Development of their LTU is running very slow, too and missed every deadline. Still not available. Seems vendors reduced invest into this section.

Re: NV3

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:44 pm
by cmanuelsantos
For LTE basestation you need license fees that a small wisp cannot afford. I am not sure if they are aiming wisp with LTE.
In my country it is only for big carrier to use the frequencies where the LTE basestations work.

it is not clear to me if mikrotik is still betting on the wisp or not ...
They build/announced LTE Basestations. I guess MT will not get into the big carrier market so this targets WISPs. The do not put much effort into the wifi based stuff. Seems not the market to grow. UBNT Development of their LTU is running very slow, too and missed every deadline. Still not available. Seems vendors reduced invest into this section.

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:35 am
by scampbell
it is not clear to me if mikrotik is still betting on the wisp or not ...
Mikrotik have many advantages for small WISP's - their low cost CPE and low cost AP's are great. 120 Degree sectors work really well for low density rural sites, Ive been involved in deploying many mANT15's and we get 20-50Mbps to customers without a problem. This is with 20MHz channel width too. In noisy environments you can use sacrifice speed for reliability and sneak in a 5 or 10Mhz channel to get around noise. In a clear open environment you could change the channel widths to 30MHz and get more bandwidth.

Using 3rd party aerials for smaller angle sectors works well and the NetMetal is an excellent product for this.

Where Mikrotik really come into their own though is the use of Romon, Mac-Telnet and Mac-Winbox. If you have ever had to fix a network with incorrect IP's and subnets you will learn to appreciate these features. Another thing is the flexability or REouterOS and the ability to do some clever configs on the client CPE end to fix Layer8 issues.

Say you get a customer factory resets their TP-Link router and it is no longer accessible ? A quick change of config on a Mikrotik LHG and you can add a DHCP-Client to e1, a couple of nat rules and have the customer connect the router via the lan port and sort the config remotely. Good luck finding that flexibility in anything starting with U or any other letter for that matter.

So for my 10cents I like Mikrotik on the last mile for a small WISP. Overall I think they are good value and their management and flexibility make them a good choice..

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:24 am
by mfr476
Finally someone who says something sensible. You can share your settings in 20 and especially in 30 mhz (I did not know that mikrotik could work in 30 mhz) to have a correct model of how to operate the equipment. I have mantbox15 and 19 and I would like to see if I can get those results.

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:26 am
by 2jarek
it is not clear to me if mikrotik is still betting on the wisp or not ...
Mikrotik have many advantages for small WISP's - their low cost CPE and low cost AP's are great. 120 Degree sectors work really well for low density rural sites, Ive been involved in deploying many mANT15's and we get 20-50Mbps to customers without a problem. This is with 20MHz channel width too. In noisy environments you can use sacrifice speed for reliability and sneak in a 5 or 10Mhz channel to get around noise. In a clear open environment you could change the channel widths to 30MHz and get more bandwidt
MIkrotik support 5-10-30Mhz Channel on AC hardware like netmetal ???? Where this software ? Version ?

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:02 am
by mistry7
it is not clear to me if mikrotik is still betting on the wisp or not ...
Mikrotik have many advantages for small WISP's - their low cost CPE and low cost AP's are great. 120 Degree sectors work really well for low density rural sites, Ive been involved in deploying many mANT15's and we get 20-50Mbps to customers without a problem. This is with 20MHz channel width too. In noisy environments you can use sacrifice speed for reliability and sneak in a 5 or 10Mhz channel to get around noise. In a clear open environment you could change the channel widths to 30MHz and get more bandwidt
MIkrotik support 5-10-30Mhz Channel on AC hardware like netmetal ???? Where this software ? Version ?
No, this is Fake
20 / 40 / 80 Nothing more is supported

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:16 pm
by mfr476
before the easy 500-700 megabytes and now 5-10-30 mhz are you sure you are talking about mikrotik or other sellers?

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:58 pm
by scampbell
before the easy 500-700 megabytes and now 5-10-30 mhz are you sure you are talking about mikrotik or other sellers?
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:W ... d_Channels

Re: NV3

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:36 pm
by mfr476
A real example please scampel. If we don't believe it. we are art theory

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:27 am
by andriys
@scampbell, Wireless Advanced Channels feature has a rather limited applicability, meaning just a small number of (mostly outdated) boards support it. Just check this out: Wireless hardware table.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:48 am
by scampbell
@scampbell, Wireless Advanced Channels feature has a rather limited applicability, meaning just a small number of (mostly outdated) boards support it. Just check this out: Wireless hardware table.
Hi Andriys,

Thank you for your feedback.

My comments were taken too literally as I was talking about MIkrotik Wireless in general rather than AC only and some of the features that are present in RoS.

I agree there are limited devices that will now do 30MHz - but that does not make it fake news.

For sure AC devices wont do anything other than 20/40/80 - because the AC spec requires only 20/40/80. Again, I was expressing an opinion about Mikrotik in general and why I like it.

However there are plenty of non-AC devices that will do 5 or 10MHz if required in a noisy environment like the LHG's (see below image from RBLHGXL5). Not a feature I use often but it is there if needed.

Of course the price is less bandwidth - so you must be prepared to sacrifice speed for reliability. :-(

And for those wanting to see a current Mikrotik set to 5MHz Channelwidth see below for an LHGXL5 :-
5mhztest.png
5mhztest2.png

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:01 am
by scampbell
A real example please scampel. If we don't believe it. we are art theory
See my last post for an example of an LHG XL 5 set to a 5MHz Channel :-)

Unfortunately I am guilty of oversharing my knowledge on some of the things Mikrotik's are capable of. I shouldn't have mentioned the 30Mhz feature as that has caused much comment and distraction to the thread.

I hope this is proving helpful though - while Mikrotik is not always at the forefront of wireless their 5GHz products are in my experience quite solid and very flexible to configure.

Here's a video that should help you some : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQJij8_uBa0

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:25 am
by RogerWilco
A real example please scampel. If we don't believe it. we are art theory
Is there some reason you refuse to accept a positive experience with MikroTik?
Is there some reason you cannot be civil and not rude to every single member on the forum?

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:32 am
by server8
Guys I am mikrotik fun

we are on the same sinking boat we have to talk about real world where mikrotik losses in both scenarios PtP and PtMP and where other vendors outperforms it

We still use mikrotik for PtMP on new towers but we have to split a 60° AP in 2 or 3 QRT ac to have the same performace of the other vendors, it's a workaround but works well and narrower antenna helps to find a clear channel in ultra high crowled enviroment.

But this is the last trick we can't split more so without modern hardware features with a modern TDMA software we can't stay on the market for a long time.....

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:04 am
by mistry7
A real example please scampel. If we don't believe it. we are art theory
See my last post for an example of an LHG XL 5 set to a 5MHz Channel :-)

Unfortunately I am guilty of oversharing my knowledge on some of the things Mikrotik's are capable of. I shouldn't have mentioned the 30Mhz feature as that has caused much comment and distraction to the thread.

I hope this is proving helpful though - while Mikrotik is not always at the forefront of wireless their 5GHz products are in my experience quite solid and very flexible to configure.

Here's a video that should help you some : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQJij8_uBa0
Help here to find the holy Wireless Setting...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=152721&p=753529#p753529

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:04 pm
by mfr476
I am a normal user of the forum ... or so I think. I enjoy with the mikrotik ccr and with the products that really work but the wireless does not work correctly and besides mikrotik does not give explanations, is it bad that you ask and inform me about the problem? Can't I expose my difficulties to give me a solution?

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:17 pm
by plisken
Mikrotik is sometimes unclear and incomplete with their explanation.
I fully agree with that. Many tutorials are also outdated.
This is not a reproach to Mikrotik but the documentation could be better.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:22 pm
by server8
Hardware is outdated

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:30 pm
by mfr476
we can only expect a response from mikrotik about an improvement of nv2 ac or a new tdma protocol

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:30 pm
by scampbell
A real example please scampel. If we don't believe it. we are art theory
See my last post for an example of an LHG XL 5 set to a 5MHz Channel :-)

Unfortunately I am guilty of oversharing my knowledge on some of the things Mikrotik's are capable of. I shouldn't have mentioned the 30Mhz feature as that has caused much comment and distraction to the thread.

I hope this is proving helpful though - while Mikrotik is not always at the forefront of wireless their 5GHz products are in my experience quite solid and very flexible to configure.

Here's a video that should help you some : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQJij8_uBa0
Help here to find the holy Wireless Setting...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=152721&p=753529#p753529
I've gone over there and posted an example of a working AC setup running 390Mbps actual data rate (780Mbps air rate) on Mikrotik and posed a few questions on test methodology and settings. Agree with your comment too that power is too high :-)

Re: NV3

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:44 pm
by scampbell
Guys I am mikrotik fun

we are on the same sinking boat we have to talk about real world where mikrotik losses in both scenarios PtP and PtMP and where other vendors outperforms it

We still use mikrotik for PtMP on new towers but we have to split a 60° AP in 2 or 3 QRT ac to have the same performace of the other vendors, it's a workaround but works well and narrower antenna helps to find a clear channel in ultra high crowled enviroment.

But this is the last trick we can't split more so without modern hardware features with a modern TDMA software we can't stay on the market for a long time.....
I agree we need smaller sector aerials from Mikrotik. Although I have begun using the Mimosa N5-45's with NetMetals and the results are pretty damn good. Very high front to back ratio and nice tight lobes.

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:45 am
by mistry7
A real example please scampel. If we don't believe it. we are art theory
See my last post for an example of an LHG XL 5 set to a 5MHz Channel :-)

Unfortunately I am guilty of oversharing my knowledge on some of the things Mikrotik's are capable of. I shouldn't have mentioned the 30Mhz feature as that has caused much comment and distraction to the thread.

I hope this is proving helpful though - while Mikrotik is not always at the forefront of wireless their 5GHz products are in my experience quite solid and very flexible to configure.

Here's a video that should help you some : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQJij8_uBa0
Help here to find the holy Wireless Setting...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=152721&p=753529#p753529
I've gone over there and posted an example of a working AC setup running 390Mbps actual data rate (780Mbps air rate) on Mikrotik and posed a few questions on test methodology and settings. Agree with your comment too that power is too high :-)
And with the same Setup with Mimosa C5c you will Archive 550-600 MBit real TCP with 1ms Ping with Same Dish
For the same money

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:58 am
by mistry7
Guys I am mikrotik fun

we are on the same sinking boat we have to talk about real world where mikrotik losses in both scenarios PtP and PtMP and where other vendors outperforms it

We still use mikrotik for PtMP on new towers but we have to split a 60° AP in 2 or 3 QRT ac to have the same performace of the other vendors, it's a workaround but works well and narrower antenna helps to find a clear channel in ultra high crowled enviroment.

But this is the last trick we can't split more so without modern hardware features with a modern TDMA software we can't stay on the market for a long time.....
I agree we need smaller sector aerials from Mikrotik. Although I have begun using the Mimosa N5-45's with NetMetals and the results are pretty damn good. Very high front to back ratio and nice tight lobes.
You will find better Antennas at RF Elements Horns

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:11 pm
by server8
With airfiber 5HD 80 mhz channel (if you find it free) you can archive something around 900 Mb/s aggegate

Re: NV3

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:38 pm
by mfr476
I wish we could do that with mikrotik ...

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:28 pm
by mfr476
after all the conversation the only conclusion that is clear to me is that nv2 is an old protocol but has no alternative. Therefore mikrotik lentils, if you want you take them if you don't leave them.

Re: NV3

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:57 pm
by ste
after all the conversation the only conclusion that is clear to me is that nv2 is an old protocol but has no alternative. Therefore mikrotik lentils, if you want you take them if you don't leave them.
This is news from last year ... If the performance of nv2 is enough (which happens often) it is ok. If you need faster or need to efficiently use spectrum you have to look elsewhere.