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archerious
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Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 9:35 am

I love my Mikrotik Wireless Wire, fast, great etc.

Use antennas.
Last edited by archerious on Fri May 29, 2020 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:24 am

you never explained what antennas you connected?

Also, dont use bars, tell us the actual signal strength. Although with an attitude like that i can't image you getting much help
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:26 am

you never explained what antennas you connected?

Also, dont use bars, tell us the actual signal strength. Although with an attitude like that i can't image you getting much help
I don't have any antennas connected at the moment, but I did order the two HGO OUT antennas, but to my understanding from Mikrotik's website those are meant for lower range use, not long range. I can't even go past 20 feet without it starting to disconnect and shit on me.

From Tik's site:

Two RP-SMA connectors allow adding an antenna of your choice. If necessary, you can adapt the NetMetal ac² for lower range use with such antennas as our HGO-antenna-OUT screw-on omni antenna unit (not included; available for ordering seperately)
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:30 am

you never explained what antennas you connected?

Also, dont use bars, tell us the actual signal strength. Although with an attitude like that i can't image you getting much help
Have it indoors for testing at the moment. If I take the T470 or my phone and go farther than about 7-10 feet away it starting disconnecting when trying to run iperf or speedtest.

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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments  [SOLVED]

Fri May 29, 2020 10:35 am

I mean you can clearly see that your RSSI is -89 which is why your speeds are poor.

you need to put external antennas on
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:39 am

I mean you can clearly see that your RSSI is -89 which is why your speeds are poor.

you need to put external antennas on
Any reason Mikrotik doesn't tell us that on their site? The literal description implies antennas are only needed for close range. I can't go more than 20 feet and expect to get a signal at all!

Literally fraud/false advertising!
Our toughest long-range AP, now with dual-band support

More power and advanced features, with the same design philosophy as its predecessors – the new NetMetal ac² AP is sturdy, reliable, easy to use and extremely capable. This is the best way to add IPsec hardware acceleration to your backhaul link! We have added an out-of-the-box 2.4/5 GHz dual-concurrent (2.4GHz and 5GHz can be used at the same time) band support – no need for additional tinkering!

NetMetal ac² can handle massive loads, as it features an improved 4-core CPU and 256 MB RAM. There is a miniPCIe slot for an LTE or other wireless modules and an SFP port for fiber. The NetMetal ac² can be a very adaptable addition for all kinds of setups.

Two RP-SMA connectors allow adding an antenna of your choice. If necessary, you can adapt the NetMetal ac² for lower range use with such antennas as our HGO-antenna-OUT screw-on omni antenna unit (not included; available for ordering seperately)

The enclosure has an IP rating of IP54 with protection against splashing from any angle, but it can still be opened and closed with one hand. Very handy in rough environments!
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:44 am

I mean you can clearly see that your RSSI is -89 which is why your speeds are poor.

you need to put external antennas on
What long range antenna do you recommend?

I forgot my wife said one of the antennas arrived. You were right. Holy fuck.

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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:45 am

I think you bought completely the wrong product tbh.

This is used to build PTP wireless links over _long_ distances, not cover your room/yard.

For inside use you should be using hap AC/hap ac2 for outside, not sure, maybe a wap/omnitik will be best.
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:45 am

LOL usually there is a yellow sticker inside that says: Never ever connect without antennas attached.
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:46 am

I think you bought completely the wrong product tbh.

This is used to build PTP wireless links over _long_ distances, not cover your room/yard.

For inside use you should be using hap AC/hap ac2 for outside, not sure, maybe a wap/omnitik will be best.
Damn, someone recommended this to me as a more tough outdoor ap.

You're were right once, you're probably right again.

Fuck.

I don't think I can return this to Euro-dk without a high return shipping fee (Texas to Latvia).
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:47 am

LOL usually there is a yellow sticker inside that says: Never ever connect without antennas attached.
I swear to god there wasn't. I'm so embarrassed now ffs. I should've stayed with Ruckus unleashed or ubiquiti.
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:49 am

I swear to god there wasn't. I'm so embarrassed now ffs. I should've stayed with Ruckus unleashed or ubiquiti.
I absolutely fully disagree...but choosing the correct product is necessary.
First the problem, then the solution
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 11:00 am

I swear to god there wasn't. I'm so embarrassed now ffs. I should've stayed with Ruckus unleashed or ubiquiti.
I absolutely fully disagree...but choosing the correct product is necessary.
Ran a speedtest on the complete other side of my house, on my S20 Ultra, got 250mbps down. That is like double what the Ruckus gets around here.

This netmetal should be perfect for the BBQ, if not I'll get the Omnitik like you recommended.

Image

Any recommendations to adjusting my config to get the best speeds/range?

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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 11:11 am

I think you bought completely the wrong product tbh.

This is used to build PTP wireless links over _long_ distances, not cover your room/yard.

For inside use you should be using hap AC/hap ac2 for outside, not sure, maybe a wap/omnitik will be best.
What does antenna gain do? Like does it increase signal or like close range etc? I see the antenna is rated to 5-7dB gain for 5GHz. Not sure if I should put 5 in that box that currently has "Antenna Gain 0".

Does my config look optimized?

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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 11:30 am

setting the antenna gain will lower tx power to fit inside your regulatory domain - rather leave it, its just going to decrease range.

Click HT, make sure both tx/rx chains 0 & 1 are ticked.

Only other thing may be to select the least occupied frequency (do a scan on wlan2, make sure you are cabled into the device), chose a channel that isn't being used. Take into account your extension channels i.e. if you are using 5180 as your frequency and you Ceee then 5180,5200,5220,5240 will all need to be as clean as possible
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 11:52 am

setting the antenna gain will lower tx power to fit inside your regulatory domain - rather leave it, its just going to decrease range.

Click HT, make sure both tx/rx chains 0 & 1 are ticked.

Only other thing may be to select the least occupied frequency (do a scan on wlan2, make sure you are cabled into the device), chose a channel that isn't being used. Take into account your extension channels i.e. if you are using 5180 as your frequency and you Ceee then 5180,5200,5220,5240 will all need to be as clean as possible
Thank you, will leave gain at 0. The chains are checked for 0 wlan2/5GHz and on wlan1/2.4GHz chain 1 is checked.

Just to confirm, on wlan2/5GHz check chain 0 and chain 1?

Thank you so much for your help, this is why I continue to buy Mikrotik. Yeah ubiquiti and ruckus require less tinkering, but they cost more and have way less helpful communities.
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 6:41 pm

setting the antenna gain will lower tx power to fit inside your regulatory domain - rather leave it, its just going to decrease range.

Click HT, make sure both tx/rx chains 0 & 1 are ticked.

Only other thing may be to select the least occupied frequency (do a scan on wlan2, make sure you are cabled into the device), chose a channel that isn't being used. Take into account your extension channels i.e. if you are using 5180 as your frequency and you Ceee then 5180,5200,5220,5240 will all need to be as clean as possible
"Antenna gain=0" ... advising people to go illegal? The signal will be too strong also! Fill in the real antenna gain, depending on the gain of the used antenna, or higher if you want to reduce the distortion and radiation, if the received signal allows for reduction. The radio will last longer as well.

For tuning, remove the "a" mode, only ac , or n/ac, unless hou still must support a mode devices. The a triggers mixed mode with extra overhead.
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 6:44 pm

setting the antenna gain will lower tx power to fit inside your regulatory domain - rather leave it, its just going to decrease range.

Click HT, make sure both tx/rx chains 0 & 1 are ticked.

Only other thing may be to select the least occupied frequency (do a scan on wlan2, make sure you are cabled into the device), chose a channel that isn't being used. Take into account your extension channels i.e. if you are using 5180 as your frequency and you Ceee then 5180,5200,5220,5240 will all need to be as clean as possible
Thank you, will leave gain at 0. The chains are checked for 0 wlan2/5GHz and on wlan1/2.4GHz chain 1 is checked.

Just to confirm, on wlan2/5GHz check chain 0 and chain 1?

Thank you so much for your help, this is why I continue to buy Mikrotik. Yeah ubiquiti and ruckus require less tinkering, but they cost more and have way less helpful communities.
Check all chains for all bands. You have 4 chains in total. Using both chains will double the interface rate if the client also has 2 chains.
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:10 pm

The netmetal AC2 is a great unit, do not be embarrassed.
Its max flex and allows you to server small area with omni antennas OR longer range with diff antennas.
It comes with dual chains. (AC1200)
It probably has a better capacity to be outdoor then other products.
It can handle IPSEC has lots of guts. Standard ethernet throughput is really decent.
Even can accept an LTE mini slot for external cellular connectivity if your main internet goes down.

I dont see much better options maybe the omnitik 5-AC - which is great for 5ghz but has no 2.4ghz coverage or so it seems. (fixed antennas and limited throughput numbers).
Thus the netmetal covers a wider range of uses.

Thanks for the good laugh at attempting wifi without antennas. I have done similar things LOL

PS. The netmetal is what I would get for outdoor and probably with an antenna that has a 180 sector such that I dont get leakage into the house area.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 10:25 pm

The netmetal AC2 is a great unit, do not be embarrassed.
Its max flex and allows you to server small area with omni antennas OR longer range with diff antennas.
It comes with dual chains. (AC1200)
It probably has a better capacity to be outdoor then other products.
It can handle IPSEC has lots of guts. Standard ethernet throughput is really decent.
Even can accept an LTE mini slot for external cellular connectivity if your main internet goes down.

I dont see much better options maybe the omnitik 5-AC - which is great for 5ghz but has no 2.4ghz coverage or so it seems. (fixed antennas and limited throughput numbers).
Thus the netmetal covers a wider range of uses.

Thanks for the good laugh at attempting wifi without antennas. I have done similar things LOL

PS. The netmetal is what I would get for outdoor and probably with an antenna that has a 180 sector such that I dont get leakage into the house area.
Thank you, I'll look into long range antennas for sure. But yeah I don't know why it didn't click in my head that antennas were needed.
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Fri May 29, 2020 11:27 pm

Thank you, I'll look into long range antennas for sure. But yeah I don't know why it didn't click in my head that antennas were needed.
YOU should be very embarrassed @archerious .... the Ruckus E510 EATS Netmetal AC2 lunch buy a country mile :-)
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Sat May 30, 2020 12:03 am

PS. The netmetal is what I would get for outdoor and probably with an antenna that has a 180 sector such that I dont get leakage into the house area.
This is why you should not be giving product advice! A netmetal with sector is such bad advice for a home user.

By the way, the best value Outdoor product for a home user is the wAP AC that I suggested in the OP ( viewtopic.php?f=13&t=161327&p=795895#p794381 ).
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Sat May 30, 2020 12:06 am

PS. The netmetal is what I would get for outdoor and probably with an antenna that has a 180 sector such that I dont get leakage into the house area.
This is why you should not be giving product advice! A netmetal with sector is such bad advice for a home user.

By the way, the best value Outdoor product for a home user is the wAP AC that I suggested in the OP ( viewtopic.php?f=13&t=161327&p=795895#p794381 ).
I'm confused now :(.

What makes the wAP AC the better long range outdoor ap? I actually own one I just don't use it because it performs worse than even the netmetal ac2 but I might've just had it setup wrong but would it really survive outdoors that well?
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Sat May 30, 2020 12:38 am

Long range on Mikrotik marketing is usually referring to multiple km with high gain antennas and not covering a back yard.

The wAP AC has 3 chains on 5ghz compared to 2 chains of the netmetal. And the wAP is the same enclosure as the wireless wire (wAPG-60adkit), so it will be just fine outdoors.
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Sat May 30, 2020 1:04 am

Long range on Mikrotik marketing is usually referring to multiple km with high gain antennas and not covering a back yard.

The wAP AC has 3 chains on 5ghz compared to 2 chains of the netmetal. And the wAP is the same enclosure as the wireless wire (wAPG-60adkit), so it will be just fine outdoors.
Fuck me, another fuckup on my part. Ugh.
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Sun May 31, 2020 3:06 pm

Long range on Mikrotik marketing is usually referring to multiple km with high gain antennas and not covering a back yard.

The wAP AC has 3 chains on 5ghz compared to 2 chains of the netmetal. And the wAP is the same enclosure as the wireless wire (wAPG-60adkit), so it will be just fine outdoors.
Hi 2 Frogs, not sure why I didn't see the wapac before as an option but yes the 3 chains are attractive.
However from a logical perspective the wapac cannot be placed close to house as its an omni attenna and is best to be placed in a central open area serving a radius.
I do not understand your logic of placing it on the house where half the signal is completely wasted and on top of that interfering with the wifi inside the house.

Lets say something like this placed int he middle or corner of the house with the desired orientation and adjust tx power for area coverage desired (obviously dont need full power (not 1.86 mile range LOL)
https://www.engeniustech.com/engenius-p ... na-sa5315/
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Sun May 31, 2020 5:59 pm

Anav, you need to read up on antenna radiation patterns. Antennas radiate their power in lobes, even omni antennas. The more directional the antenna, the more the lobes are concentrated in one direction and typically there are more lobes. Back lobes are what you need to pay attention to. They radiate off the back of directional antenna, but at much lower gains. For the 15 dbi 120 deg sector antenna you referenced, you could still see a 1-2 dbi gain to the back side of the antenna in effect making it a omni at near range (100-300 ft compared to the 1.86 miles.) This is the main reason it is always recommended to have spatial distance as well as frequency separation between such antennas.

Another draw back of using the sector antenna you recommend is the receiving end of the AP. That 1.86 miles goes both directions, so now your are dealing with interference from such distances.
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Sun May 31, 2020 6:42 pm

Anav, you need to read up on antenna radiation patterns. Antennas radiate their power in lobes, even omni antennas. The more directional the antenna, the more the lobes are concentrated in one direction and typically there are more lobes. Back lobes are what you need to pay attention to. They radiate off the back of directional antenna, but at much lower gains. For the 15 dbi 120 deg sector antenna you referenced, you could still see a 1-2 dbi gain to the back side of the antenna in effect making it a omni at near range (100-300 ft compared to the 1.86 miles.) This is the main reason it is always recommended to have spatial distance as well as frequency separation between such antennas.

Another draw back of using the sector antenna you recommend is the receiving end of the AP. That 1.86 miles goes both directions, so now your are dealing with interference from such distances.
Correct use of a directional antenna requires the operator to turn down the TXpower of the radio. EIRP is calcullated from the point with the largest antenna gain, and then supposed to be isotropic (The I in EIRP). So if you use a 15dBi antenna instead of a 2 dBi antenna the TXpower must be lowered by 13dB.
Say FCC area (USA, Canada...). Max is 30 dBm. Omni will be at 28 dBm TXpower. EIRP is 30dBm. Radiation is in all directions perpendicular on the antenna 30 dBm
Sector antenna of 15 dBi, may use TXpower of 15dBm. EIRP is 30 dBm. ERP radiation of the back will be 17dBm if there is still a sidelobe of 2dBi. 300 ft is very far for this power compared to a omnidirectional.
And FCC has a very high power level in the regulation. Most have to live with 20 dBm.
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Sun May 31, 2020 8:53 pm

As bpwl stated, my recommendation was to focus the wifi ONLY for the intended coverage area and of course one would have to turn down the power as appropriate to the scenario.
If the power is turned down leakage (side and back lobes) should be way smaller than an omni radiating into the house.
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:25 am

Another draw back of using the sector antenna you recommend is the receiving end of the AP. That 1.86 miles goes both directions, so now your are dealing with interference from such distances.

Antena patterns affect interference as well. If interferer is in same general direction as link partner, then you can't do much about it (apart from changing frequency or rising Tx power). However, if interferer is in different direction, a (highly) directional antenna will reduce amount of interference (compared to omni antenna).
BR,
Metod
 
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Re: Netmetal AC2 Disappointments

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:33 am

Well stated, if the antenna is primarily looking for returns from a certain area (more focused) the returns from other angles will be better ignored.
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