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Shy
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hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:48 pm

Hi guys
I need your help to decide which hAP device i should take that will be able to achieve 1000/100 link over Wifi with AC1750 as hAP ac claims to do
Will it be a real difference between hAP ac^2 to hAP ac?
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:00 pm

You will not achieve 1000Mbps over wifi. Maybe +- 500Mbps on 5Ghz with a 3x3 AC card in a laptop. If you want a 1000Mbps - use an ethernet cable.

Between the two - frankly if you do no need an SFP port - I would frankly just go for the hap ac2.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:09 pm

You will not achieve 1000Mbps over wifi. Maybe +- 500Mbps on 5Ghz with a 3x3 AC card in a laptop. If you want a 1000Mbps - use an ethernet cable.

Between the two - frankly if you do no need an SFP port - I would frankly just go for the hap ac2.
The connection speed can be way over 1Gbps, indeed the transferspeed is much lower. But that is how wireless works. What are your expectations @Shy?
First the problem, then the solution
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:49 pm

More importantly, what is your use case or what are your use cases?
What are you trying to achieve?

Is this wifi being used for your ISP wan iput??
Is this wifi from the device to a specific location inside a house?
Is this wifi from the device to a specific location outside a house?

The better you detail the requirements the better your answers will be.
Also you dont say why you need the throughput to be XXXX?
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:12 pm

Hello
Thanks for your answers
I will give some brief of my current setup and what i am willing to achieve.
I have fiber 200/200 connection which is configured with meraki device model MR33. Soon i will probably upgrade the link to 500/100 or 1000/100 . Currently my MR33 can be reachable on ac speed of 867mb with my mac. Since i just bought hEX s device to be as a router gateway i am willing to replace meraki with Mikrotik device as well. I am aware that on wifi internally in the house i won't be able to reach pure 1gig and i am looking for the closet option. Since i am buying those devices for some years i don't want to buy a hardware that won't fit or will be old too soon
As i know hAP ac for years i am aware that this device is about 4 yr old and i wonder if for 3 chain wifi with ac1750 it will fit my neeeds for the next years. Since i haven't got my hEX s yet i dont know what to expect from its being used with the meraki but i prefer to replace it.
So my questions are what is the best wifi solution i can achieve for now as June 2020 and will it be ok to buy hAP ac^2 or hAP ac?
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:19 pm

The HEX will not suit your needs to maximize a 1gig down service but it would be fine for 500 down service, so thats up to you.
As for wifi, without knowing the area, floors,walls expected coverage any comment is useless, WIFI needs context!!
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:45 pm

hEX s not hEX

What will be the ac speed of hAP ac compared to hAP ac^2?
I am talking of 100 m^2 square apartment with standard walls.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post  [SOLVED]

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:48 pm

hEX s not hEX

What will be the ac speed of hAP ac compared to hAP ac^2?
I am talking of 100 m^2 square apartment with standard walls.
What is the layout of the apartment and where will the device be located and where are there other wired outlets?

NOTE: in terms of processor and testing, hex and hexs are the same. (the difference is SFP port and poe capability both on the hex S)
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:50 pm

Its just in the center of the apartment
Most of the wifi devices are in the radius within 10 to 20 meters from the router.
I had a feeling that hEX s is the mosr powerfull of the 3 compared to hAP ac and hAP ac^2 isn't it?
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:20 pm

Its just in the center of the apartment
Most of the wifi devices are in the radius within 10 to 20 meters from the router.
I had a feeling that hEX s is the mosr powerfull of the 3 compared to hAP ac and hAP ac^2 isn't it?
No, it is in the middle. HEX S has about half the "power" of HAP AC2.
HEX S is too slow for a full 1000 Mbits WAN. The Hap AC2 can manage it with ethernet.
With Wifi (with good signal and client device) you can go around real 300-350 Mbits (sum UP+DL of all connected devices) with HAP AC/WAP AC and around real 400-450 Mbits with HAP AC2/CAP AC.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:27 pm

Oh.. so i should get hAP Ac^2 for best performance?

Will the hEX s handle 200/200?
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:35 pm

I must say that everytime i get different answers
From mikrotik support i was told that hAP ac will be more solid for wifi and overal performance and hAP ac^2 will be good for most of the wifi coverage situation.
Now i understand the oposite that hAP ac is too old to be usable for 1000/100 or even to 500/100
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:46 pm

Routing ac2>ac, wireless ac>ac2
 
Shy
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:48 pm

So routing plus wireless
hAP ac + hEX S (RB760iGS) ?
Or hEX s + ac^2?
I have to pick up with something because as it looks for now i will need to send back the hEX s ....🤯
Last edited by Shy on Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:00 pm

So routing plus wireless
hAP ac + hEX S (RB760iGS) ?
Why not hAP ac + hAP ac2? :)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:01 pm

Because i have hex s on delivery already...
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:09 pm

hEX s not hEX

What will be the ac speed of hAP ac compared to hAP ac^2?
I am talking of 100 m^2 square apartment with standard walls.
What is the layout of the apartment and where will the device be located and where are there other wired outlets?

NOTE: in terms of processor and testing, hex and hexs are the same. (the difference is SFP port and poe capability both on the hex S)
Hi
I don't have wire sockets
I count on wifi only.
I am worried for the hEX s on the 200/200. So i need to send it back and get what?
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:17 pm

I'd send the hex back.
Then go with hAP ac2 and test its wifi performance.

Then two possible outcomes:
1) If it will suit you -> leave it as a router/switch and take cAP ac as a dedicated AP.
It's basically the same hardware as hAP ac2 but better antenna array and less ethernet ports.
If you find yourself ok with hAP ac2's wifi, cAP ac will do.

2) If hAP ac2's wifi performance won't be enough for you --> then again, leave it as a router/switch and go on the market for a dedicated AP with better performance.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:19 pm

See from that review about the hEX S
Speed rate
https://www.amazon.com/review/reviews-l ... B07F7HDRKX
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:21 pm

And tnx for your idea
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:36 pm

hEX S is not a bad device and it will be able to run at 200/200 even with NAT and complex firewall.
Maybe even twice as much or more.

But it costs the same as hAP ac2 and hAP ac2 will outperform it at the factor of 2 in identical conditions.
Additionally hAP ac2 has a better switch chip and decent wifi.

So if you don't need specific features of hEX S (such as SFP cage, PoE-out or microSD card slot) hAP ac2 is just a better choice.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:56 pm

Well since sfp was of my needs at the first place i was looking on hAP ac instead of using OLT device,
When I understood that hAP ac is out of the game
i was thinking of using hEX s with cAP ac or hAP ac^2 for better flexibility...so here i am asking for ideas from people who knows ;)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:34 am

The HAPAC2 is more powerful than the hex, plus has reasonable wifi for your small space and will enable future growth to 1gig down in the future!!
You should get 200-300 s down on 5ghz with it, and about 50-100Mpbs on 2.4ghz.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:20 am

Are you sure that the heX s won't handle 1000/100? I have seen people gets it on screenshot on amazon.

Also here
https://www.reddit.com/r/mikrotik/comme ... on/fros1td
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:08 am

Using default config with fasttrack enabled - it will.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:51 pm

Ok and what about having better wifi with hAP ac? Will it be better with hAP ac with combination of hEX s?
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:16 pm

hAP ac with it's tripple-chain wireless radios can give 50% higher throughput ... with clients that support (at least) 3 chains. Many (possibly most) clients support 2 chains and in this case hAP ac in optimal radio conditions doesn't gain anything (compared to hAP ac2). In sub-optimal radio conditions it may gain slightly due to possibility of selecting better oriented antennae for 2-chain operation.

One thing to consider: wifi does push device's CPU and single device doing both routing/firewalling and wifi might end up in CPU overload condition thus limiting achievable throughput, while it might perform quite better when only doing one task. In this case combination of hEx+hAP ac might actually do better than "lone" hAP ac2 ...
BR,
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:42 pm

The HAPAC2 kicks the hex's ass when it comes to throughput. NO matter what XVO says, the hex will not service a 1gig down connection.
Why, because I have two of them and neither could even come close.
If he does have one and he can reach 1gig its because his firewall ruleset looks like this.

ip firewall


end of file.

Do it in steps.
A. BUY hapac2, check WIFI, if still to weak at certain locations then dont bother with a hex, add the existing hapac to the far end.
B. If the wifi of the hapac is a problem, cannot get it to work, then perhaps the unit is defective in which case get a second hapac2 and stick the second one at the far location assuming a wired connection.


I just don't understand the lack of logic in all these 'experts' (эксперты, eksperci, experti. eksperti, esperti, experten, expertos)
Last edited by anav on Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:03 pm

hAP ac with it's tripple-chain wireless radios can give 50% higher throughput ... with clients that support (at least) 3 chains. Many (possibly most) clients support 2 chains and in this case hAP ac in optimal radio conditions doesn't gain anything (compared to hAP ac2). In sub-optimal radio conditions it may gain slightly due to possibility of selecting better oriented antennae for 2-chain operation.

One thing to consider: wifi does push device's CPU and single device doing both routing/firewalling and wifi might end up in CPU overload condition thus limiting achievable throughput, while it might perform quite better when only doing one task. In this case combination of hEx+hAP ac might actually do better than "lone" hAP ac2 ...
That what exacly my way of thinking to put hex s as rhe main router ans second device just as a wifi. The problem starts and ends with the way those devices will be in 1 year from now when wifi6 will be more mainstream. That's the reason i wanted device between one device for routing and one for wifi plus benefits of having poe and sfp available.
From what i understand i cannot count on better performance of hap ac from hex s from routing and global performance.
Since I already have hex s on delivery i need to decide if i should add either hap ac or hap ac^2 to the order. Or maybe i should take hex s as the main router only and use meraki for wifi for the short time.. i really wanted to be fully mikrotik eployment but i got some different recommendations that leads me to buy a product that i wasn't 100 percent sure about.
At first place i though that hAP ac will do everything in one box but then i realized that it wont be sufficient , i want a device for yeats not for 1 year lifetime.
Your comments could help me to decide if i return the hex s or taking another unit that will be suitable for future 1gig upgrade...
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:14 pm

Using default config with fasttrack enabled - it will.
I cant remember the default config on the hEX, if it is "switched or not", but will definitely route 1Gb/s depending on your config.
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:10 pm

Geez, I need to add another so called 'experts' to the list (ochwepheshe)
Take your Hex 1GIG and politely shove it.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:27 pm

Geez, I need to add another so called 'experts' to the list (ochwepheshe)
Take your Hex 1GIG and politely shove it.
Hmmmm, maybe you should add one more to the list (self-opinionated)
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:51 pm

Wow.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:31 pm

Geez, I need to add another so called 'experts' to the list (ochwepheshe)
Take your Hex 1GIG and politely shove it.
Hmmmm, maybe you should add one more to the list (self-opinionated)
Don't you worry Shy, we banter back and forth all the time. CZFAN is cool and one of handle full of experts here that really know their stuff.

As to opinionated, I certainly am LOL, otherwise who else would provide some accountability to the MT elites? but seriously, I live in the real world of real ISPs and have played with two HEXES and an RB450Gx4 that is rated higher than the HEX and lower then the Hapac2.
Guess what in the real world my RB450Gx4 could get into the low 900 range but never got to 980 in any tests, believe I achieved 960ish or so with few rules.
Once loaded with many rules it went down to between 600-700.
These are tests within the ISP domain, once reaching real world sites they diminish further.
Truth be told, I am a cheap bastad so I wouldnt recommend spending a penny more than you have to, but I dont want to see someone waste their money when their expectations are not realized.

I got the RB because the HEX was way worse.
So opinionated maybe, but based on my experience. So its not from thin air.
Go ahead Shy, get the HEX, but first get a notarized piece of paper from CZFAN and XVO that you will achieve 1gig speed with default rule set plus maybe 5 extra rules.
The paper should state that if you are unable to achieve 1gig, they will send you $1000US dollars as payment of apology and shame.

Lets see if they put their money where their mouths are........... somehow I dont think the non-accountable MT elites have the guts. ;-)

When I get this badboy fired up I will let you know my speed test results........
IMG_5526[1].JPG
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I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:16 pm

Thats a nice stuff!! I am low on budget so i prefer to buy exactly what is needed to my setup. I want to thank you all for that thread even though i was just shocked earlier.
I will update once i will get the hex s i hope that he will do the magic and will handle the traffic on 200/200 easily. About atttaching AP device to it i still looking for my best option if its hAP or hAP ac^2 i still dont have any idea...
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:22 pm

Can some1 confirm If on wifi hAP ac gives max of 500mb and hAP ac^2 is up to 300mb ?
Also overal load hAP ac could manage?
Last edited by Shy on Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:34 pm

Thats a nice stuff!! I am low on budget so i prefer to buy exactly what is needed to my setup. I want to thank you all for that thread even though i was just shocked earlier.
I will update once i will get the hex s i hope that he will do the magic and will handle the traffic on 200/200 easily. About atttaching AP device to it i still looking for my best option if its hAP or hAP ac^2 i still dont have any idea...
Yes the hex will easily handle 200/200 traffic, it will work well into the 600 range as well if you increase your service to 500 down for example.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:21 am

Go ahead Shy, get the HEX, but first get a notarized piece of paper from CZFAN and XVO that you will achieve 1gig speed with default rule set plus maybe 5 extra rules.
The paper should state that if you are unable to achieve 1gig, they will send you $1000US dollars as payment of apology and shame.

Lets see if they put their money where their mouths are........... somehow I dont think the non-accountable MT elites have the guts. ;-)

@XVO, are you game for the @anav challenge?
If me and @XVO proves 1Gb/s routing on hex(s), @anav will give us (CZFan & XVO) 1000 US$
MTCNA, MTCTCE, MTCRE & MTCINE
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:03 pm

Oh jeez!
Just one evening I'm not paying attention to the forum, and that's exactly the evening, when @anav gone wild after some bad whiskey!
:lol:

I don't have an 1gig uplink, and the hEX i have access to is currently "in production".
But for 1000$ I think I can figure something out...
Btw is it 1000$ each, or we need to split?
:lol:
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:11 pm

When I get this badboy fired up I will let you know my speed test results........
And by the way, @anav, congrats on the CCR.
I guess we are now "router buddies" :)
Although strictly speaking I have an RM version.
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:18 pm

When I get this badboy fired up I will let you know my speed test results........

Hummm ... who's unaccountable now? I told you nicely that you don't need Øveraasen TV 2000 ... neither you need Øveraasen UPV 425 ... in fact any of small units will do to clear your front porch.
BR,
Metod
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:22 pm

Anav,
What will be the max throughput hAP ac could handle?
Over wifi and lan
 
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Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:10 pm

Well LANs are switch based so all LAN traffic should be passing at 1gig less cabling losses etc..... regardless of routers/ap you choose, I dont think any of them use 100 speed switches/?

WIFI as discussed in the other thread
expect hapac2 - speeds around 300 giver take
expect hapac - speeds around 433 giver take
expect 4011 - speeds around 578 giver take
(wifi speeds depending upon setup of wifi device, capabilities of devices attaching to wifi, lack of old slowing down attached wifi devices, and relatively Line of Sight).

As for WAN, the hapac2 rocks, will ensure future proof to a 1gig down speed no problem.
The only thing that matches it, well actually easily doubles that throughput is the RB4011 mucho dinero, and since I will be stinking rich from all the money I will get from xvo, mkx and CZfan, I could lend you some LOLOLOL.

Be practical, if you have an apartment where a centrally located wifi device is not likely, then you will need two at either end. So if your router has to be at one end and you can wire a wifi device at the other end. Use existing wifi device at other end, assuming you have something already, and get the hapac2 as the router / wifi unit.

I agree with mkx, that separating routing and wifi is not a bad way to proceed but you dont live in a mansion. ;-) Plus the hapac2 will be a good routing device for the future and you can always turn the wifi off if WIFI XXXX comes down the line.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:35 pm

I am waiting for hEX s to arrive, supposed to be as main router. Should i add hAP ac^2 to that or hAP ac?

Should i sell it and take hAP ac^2 as the main router and add another hAP ac^2 as another AP or hAP ac?

The RB4011 is over the budget for me.
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:16 pm

The hapac has better wifi than hapac2 so do not get rid of it LOL.
Get the hapac2 as the main router and providing wifi to 1/2 of apartment with the hapac providing the other half.
Sell the hex or use it as a test unit, or switch, its quite pliable.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:26 pm

HeX s as gateway + hAP ac won't be good? For 200 or 500 mbit?
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:38 pm

In your other post I came up with a viable plan.
Phase 1 - Up to 500mbps speed.
HEX as router attached to modem in closet, attached to hapac2 at one end of apartment, and hapac at other end.
Phase 2 - 1gig or higher speed
HAPAC2 as router via HEX (acting as a switch only next to modem in closet), hex also attached to the hapac.

Get the hapac2 and some cables and good to go.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:20 pm

Good idea
Tnx!
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:51 pm

Phase 2 - 1gig or higher speed
HAPAC2 as router via HEX (acting as a switch only next to modem in closet), hex also attached to the hapac.
If you are talking about this:
        ISP
         |
        hEX
       /   \
hAP ac2     hAP ac
That won't work for for 1 gbit.
To connect hEX and hAP ac2 with one cable (hAP ac2 being a "router on a stick") you need two vlans to run on that cable, and hEX can't do vlans in hw.
And even if it could, you would still get only 500mbit full duplex on that link.

But if you connect them with two wires, like this
        ISP
         |
        hEX
      //   \
hAP ac2     hAP ac
You will end up needing two bridges on hEX - (ISP-hAP ac2) and (hAP ac2 - hAP ac) - and only one of the bridges will be hw-offloaded.
So no go too.
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:59 pm

Thanks for the diagrams, did you mention hEX s or hEX ? I talked about hEX s (RB760iGS)
why do I need two uplinks between the hex s to the hAP AC^2? so I will be able to make 1 Gb through it?

so on the other hand I could just make hAP ac^2 as a router gateway (if I will need sfp i will just need OLT converter) and then to join another hAP ac for better wifi?
Last edited by Shy on Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:03 pm

Actually you don't want any of the two diagrams.
They both won't work fine, but for different reasons.

Well, actually for the same reason: hEX S is a decent router, but not a decent switch :)
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:10 pm

so I can make it as the follow:

ISP > hEX s > hAP ac

or i still need ac^2?

so

ISP > ac^2 > hAP ac

or

ISP > hAP ac

or

ISP > ac^2 > ac^2 (which won't give the best wifi solution)
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:41 pm

Once again.

None of hAP ac and hAP ac2 is "best wifi solution", but they are both "ok wifi solution".
Both of hEX S and hAP ac2 are "more than ok router solution".

Few things to think about: if all your devices are wireless ones, then why do you need 1gig service/1 gig capable router?
You wont get 1 gig no matter which wifi ap you get (neither mikrotik, nor other in the given budget), even with two APs I doubt that you will be able to saturate 1 gig in any but testing conditions.

You already have hEX S ordered - so let it be your router.

As for wifi:
- hAP ac and wAP ac both are powerful, proven, 3X3 in 5Ghz, but they a quite expensive and a little outdated now. Their CPU is what caps their wifi speed. Not "the wifi" itself.
- hAP ac2 and cAP ac on the other side have new powerful CPU and are cheap but both are 2x2. They work at their "wifi max performance" not at "CPU max performance". That means they can be faster, but not so stable.

I think there is no real point to buy wAP ac or hAP ac in 2020.
If you need "reeeealy best wifi" - prepare to spend muuuuch more money.
Otherwise add couple of cAP ac's to your hEX S for better coverage and move on.
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:01 pm

Thank you so much for that answers that really covers everthing.

Its the first time that someone really says:
hAP ac is too old.
hAP ac^2 is not the best wifi solution so i should stick with another AP solution.
hEX s will be good as the router.

Regards the 1 gig i must say that for now i am on 200/200 which is really enough for me, the reason i mentioned 1 gig because it becomes "the new standard" that isps are selling and probably i would buy a router that should support that and will work in few years from now.

I still have my meraki access point that would give the wifi service till its subscription ends. I just need to have another AP handy so i can use it.
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:45 pm

:thumbs up:
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:14 pm

Next question,
cAP AP will be similar by Ac speed as hAP ac does?
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:11 pm

More or less...
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:39 pm

Thank you xvo
So do we have a challenge for getting 1 gb on hEX s? ;)
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:41 pm

More or less...
Less, they must have special propagation only in Ruski land ;-), or xvo is drinking the potatoe schnapps again!!

the capac is an 867 speed ac device = 290 speeds
The hapac is a 1300 speed ac device = approx 433 speeds
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:46 pm

So hapac still rocks even as AP, but not sure if it worth the money now and what will hapen in 1 year from now.
Unfortunately ac^3 is out of scope.
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:13 pm

With 2x2 and 80MHz width they both show around 400-450-500 in tests, that means in real life with walls, etc. you will have around 300.
In case you have a 3x3 device, you can benefit from hAP ac, but not in the sense that you will get 900 (because of CPU bottleneck), but rather in sense that you will still get 300, when cAP ac shows 200.

My honest opinion: all this matters only when the AP serves tens or hundreds of clients simultaneously.
For single-client performance all these tests don't mean much.
Each wall, each obstacle will cut the speed.
If you need 1gig - use wires.
If you want stable speed - buy more APs, and put them in each room.
Trying to cover the whole apartment with one AP end expect top speeds is naive.
Paying 2x the price of hAP ac over cAP ac when taking in account only wifi performance, but not the other features is ridiculous.
There are better APs on the market for the money in case we are talking of hAP ac's price.
In case of cAP ac's price - I doubt it.
 
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Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:41 pm

With 2x2 and 80MHz width they both show around 400-450-500 in tests, that means in real life with walls, etc. you will have around 300.
In case you have a 3x3 device, you can benefit from hAP ac, but not in the sense that you will get 900 (because of CPU bottleneck), but rather in sense that you will still get 300, when cAP ac shows 200.

My honest opinion: all this matters only when the AP serves tens or hundreds of clients simultaneously.
For single-client performance all these tests don't mean much.
Each wall, each obstacle will cut the speed.
If you need 1gig - use wires.
If you want stable speed - buy more APs, and put them in each room.
Trying to cover the whole apartment with one AP end expect top speeds is naive.
Paying 2x the price of hAP ac over cAP ac when taking in account only wifi performance, but not the other features is ridiculous.
There are better APs on the market for the money in case we are talking of hAP ac's price.
In case of cAP ac's price - I doubt it.

Thanks for so honest answer,
I must say that i have learnt so much here.
You just summarized it clearly, paying twice for hAP ac is not realistic, I should test the hEX s and see how its functioning,
to spread more than one AP. Probably cAP ac will be just sufficient.
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:19 am

You just summarized it clearly, paying twice for hAP ac is not realistic, I should test the hEX s and see how its functioning,
to spread more than one AP. Probably cAP ac will be just sufficient.
Exactly!

As for the "hEX vs 1Gbit uplink challenge" issue...
Well, i've seen a lot of user reviews about its performance: for some of them it works at 900+, for some only 250-350.
How you configure it and in what manner will you be using it makes a huge difference.
Default config, fasttrack enabled, single connection, downloading a 70GB movie file - i can easily believe in 900+.
Huge firewall, queues, multiple clients, hundreds of connections - ok, 250 it is.
Torrents seeding? Some kind of public proxy? Website hosting on a home server behind it? Tor or i2p relay?
Home, office, public space?
All the above are different use cases. Which one to take as a baseline?

And, btw, you now have 200/200.
hEX S is what? 70$?
If somewhen in 5 years, you decide it doesn't keep up with your new ISP plan, then you will just repurpose it to something else!
Parent's/grandparents apartment. Dude server. Dumb switch.

To wrap it up.
I guess I'll just pass on all this "challenge" thing.
Don't want to test it just for the sake of testing.
And honestly, I think this thread is way too long already.
...and not about hEX in the first place...
:lol:
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:03 am

Thank you :-D
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:06 am

You are welcome! :)
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:52 pm

By the way which recommended APs like strenght of hAP ac?
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:15 pm

That is not completely proper question for a brand-specific forum, isn't it? :)
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:22 pm

Ok lets focus my question,
Which mikrotik ap will be strong as hAP ac?
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:25 pm

I have replaced a CAPAC in one location with a TPLink eap245 and so far it seems more stable. However I was also having issues with my router at the time, that may have been the root cause. However, I still have another capac working in the house and will probably put my spare capac in another location. The TPLink is a 1300 unit vice the capac 867 unit. Like the hapac specs but way cheaper at $90Cdn https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-EAP245-Wi ... 380&sr=8-1

The Capac costs me $95 cdn, so yes you can get better units at the same price if you shop around. The difference is that the MT unit works on MT RoS with all the settings available, while the TPLINK is a fixed wifi unit (can be powered by STANDARD poe - unlike MT propriertary poe) and is vlan capable so in terms of wifi and power you are not missing anything. In fact, I would say the TPLINK wifi is programmed better than the capac wifi internally.

I hold no allegiance to any brand, (unless Normis sends me the Mikrotik Nerd T-shirt!!!) and will continue to use best price performance products in a home environment.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:29 pm

Ok lets focus my question,
Which mikrotik ap will be strong as hAP ac?
Audience, wifi version of 4011.
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:43 pm

Ok lets focus my question,
Which mikrotik ap will be strong as hAP ac?
Audience, wifi version of 4011.
Unortanetly Audience and 4011 are ~$160
Which is out of my budget..
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:48 pm

I have replaced a CAPAC in one location with a TPLink eap245 and so far it seems more stable. However I was also having issues with my router at the time, that may have been the root cause. However, I still have another capac working in the house and will probably put my spare capac in another location. The TPLink is a 1300 unit vice the capac 867 unit. Like the hapac specs but way cheaper at $90Cdn https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-EAP245-Wi ... 380&sr=8-1

The Capac costs me $95 cdn, so yes you can get better units at the same price if you shop around. The difference is that the MT unit works on MT RoS with all the settings available, while the TPLINK is a fixed wifi unit (can be powered by STANDARD poe - unlike MT propriertary poe) and is vlan capable so in terms of wifi and power you are not missing anything. In fact, I would say the TPLINK wifi is programmed better than the capac wifi internally.

I hold no allegiance to any brand, (unless Normis sends me the Mikrotik Nerd T-shirt!!!) and will continue to use best price performance products in a home environment.
The first reason for me to use Mikrotik because i wanted all devices to be mikrotik so i can manage everything smoothly (hopefully).
Now i have Meraki which is not centrally managed with my network devices.
For 200 mb (500mb in future, i dont see reason to have 1gb) i hope that cAP ac will be sufficient and to use ethernet as much as possible as xvo mentuoned.

If you were told me hAP ac is awesome for its price even for being only AP it would be great but it really make no sense to pay $115 for 4 years old device which has low CPU that avoid me to use it as a main router. (Are there any people here that bought this device lately and can argue about that?)
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:36 pm

You are mixing apples and oranges now. Dont consider the hapac as a router.
You can get the same wifi from a tplink eap245v3 or reasonable wifi from the capac.
Only consider the hapac2 as wifi and routing combo.

put hapac2 in the middle of the apt in closet, you have a hapac at one end, get the capac or tplink at the other end.
No worries about single lines splitting the throughput etc.....
I would get the TPLINK vice capac because the tp link I know I can control power output effectively.
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:43 pm

I dont have hAP ac.
I will have hEX s only. So to sum it up its better to put tplink than cAP ac or hAP ac. Right?

The only cons in this setup is that i cannot have the AP controlled centraly by mikrotik.
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:54 pm

I dont have hAP ac.
I will have hEX s only. So to sum it up its better to put tplink than cAP ac or hAP ac. Right?

The only cons in this setup is that i cannot have the AP controlled centraly by mikrotik.
Well that clears that up LOL. All this time I thought you had a hapac LOL.
Is the Meraki wifi capable?
I'd rather manage rats than software. Follow my advice at your own risk! (Sob & mkx forced me to write that!)
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:12 pm

:-) No i don't have the hAP ac, I just wanted to understand if it worth to buy it in 2020 since I know this model runs for 4 years already.
I have ordered hEX s so I could have the mikrotik experience and I wanted to add APs so I ask what would be better for best performance with low budget.

regards Meraki its doing great but the license costs furtune and I have less than a year so I was looking for Mikrotik solution.
the only option I can think now is cAP ac but I am not sure its sufficient for 500mb over wifi (and not closed to that)
 
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Re: hAP ac or hAP ac^2 moderator please do not delete this post

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:58 pm

SHY,

When you say 500mbps, is that single Wifi client? UDP, TCP? Uplink, Downlink?
20Mhz/40/80 or 160 Mhz client (I assume you talk about 5Ghz only) which country (for output power in RF)
Everything matters in Wifi... and each test will show different results...

Close distance (same room, 2 meters from AP), relative free spectrum (no real close proximity AP), Hap ac2 will
get with 3x3 80Mhz clients and free spectrum somewhere max a bit north of TCP 400Mbps DL and 350 for UL.
and around 300 Mbps with peaks towards 400 mbps with 2x2 clients.
Then from there things go down the further you go away and the more interference you have...

hap-ac2 CPU load: 25-30% on on core, others all free for 400+ mbps, so enough CPU for other task...
PS: hap-ac2 and cap-ac are same Wifi so results should be similar.
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hapac2, map, hap-lite, ltap-mini, RB4011 (good!), Audience (better) :-) !!!
 
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Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:12 pm

I mentioned 500mb as the wan link speed. 500/500 (currently its 200mbit up /200mbit down.

If the hEX s could manage that i though to connect two hAP ac^2 (one in the main room and second in one of the rooms with the PoE of the heEX s.
If it could make 400mb out of the 500mb in wifi it will be great.
The apartment is only 100m sqr meter so i believe that it should cover.

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