Why are 802.11a Band C (5.740-5.840GHz) frequencies missing when using United Kingdom as country in RouterOS?

I know the UK has some specific requirements regarding radar detection and channel shifting, but isn't that handled by DFS?

Also OfCom, the UK regulatory authority, has recently relaxed EIRP requirements for 802.11a Band C to allow up to 4W or 36dBi. When will MikroTik update RouterOS to take account of these changes?


Regards


Chris Macneill

"Yes Please" to updating UK wireless settings in ROS:

Latest OFCOM rulings
- 5.4GHz band now allocated
- Higher EIRP now on 5.8GHz

Any questions please ask-

Regards

CableFree Solutions

send this to support, along with official documents that prove it

Thanks for responding Normis,

Here we are, will send to support also:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs ... its/power/
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/ ... e_2007.pdf
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2007/05/nr_20070531
and
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/ ... rangements
and note that last one refers to the "old" EIRP in band C, superseded by the above.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

Thanks for the responses, but no one has answered my original question. Why are 802.11a Band C frequencies unavailable for UK? These frequencies have been available under a soft licensing scheme since April 2004.

ask the people who made ETSI regulations, as RouterOS uses their lists

Normis,

As i understand it ETSI only lists unregulated frequencies, but in the UK and possibly other countries in Europe 5.7-5.8GHz Band C is available under a soft licensing scheme, i.e. you register your locations on an OfCom website and pay a nominal £1 per site fee per year.

RouterOS needs to allow these Band C frequencies for the UK and other European countries.

Currently much of my network uses Alvarion equipment in Band C, this has been in use since April 2004. It's about time RouterOs caught up, currently I have to run my MikroTik routers with United States as the country in order to enable Band C frequencies.


Regards


Chris Macneill

we can't allow these bands as default, because people who have not paid should not be able to use them. right now you can select USA and use what you need

we can't allow these bands as default, because people who have not paid should not be able to use them.

Prompts a question: is the UK the only country with "soft licensing"? IMHO that is the cause of this debate.
Also note, no other radio vendor takes the role of being the "police". All documentation supplied with a radio clearly states it is up to the user to ensure that appropriate licenses are paid and the law is adhered to, and training courses re-inforce that.
The one exception is the USA, where FCC don't like the user-selectable country table, and want it "locked down" to USA only, but that's a separate topic already in-hand with MT.
Do Alvarion, Moto & co try to legislate in software? I don't think so - others please do comment.

right now you can select USA and use what you need

From a software perspective, yes. From a legal/regulatory point-of-view, not so wise.
If OFCOM knocks on someone's door, and user has to explain they had to put US country codes in to use the frequencies, they'd probably shut the site down, or demand the vendor intervene with a solution double-quick. US rules (incl. EIRP) are not the same as UK.

Hope that helps.

if you configure the software properly (choose the right frequency, antenna gain and tx-power), will OFCOM really want to see your RouterOS config? Don't give them a reason to knock on your door.

Prompts a question: is the UK the only country with "soft licensing"?

you are the only ones with such issues

I use som alvarion equipment, here you have to know yourself what band you can use.
How about adding an option in MT for expert user etc where all is open.

you are the only ones with such issues

Fair enough, sometimes the UK manages to be unique ...

Have replied off-forum on this topic.

I use som alvarion equipment, here you have to know yourself what band you can use.
How about adding an option in MT for expert user etc where all is open.

it's already there !! this topic is about UK setting. if you want, set it to 'manual' and use what you like

Ahh, sorry about that

Normis,

What you say about blocking the 802.11a Band C frequencies for UK because MikroTik cannot control who has and who has not registered with OfCom is ridiculous if you still then allow manual setting. You're just making our life difficult, without really enforcing anything. Either you need to enforce the rules properly by shipping different firmware versions for each country or you make it down to the user to comply with regulations. It sounds like you're already under pressure the the FCC to tie down frequency settings for the US.

Also, the manual frequency settings do not line up with those used in the UK. MT manual frequencies are 5745, 5765, 5785, 5805 & 5825. The band 5790 - 5820 is not allowed in the UK, thus the only legal manual frequencies with 20MHz bandwidth are 5745 & 5765.

Alvarion equipment is shipped with firmware that is country dependent and only allows me to select legal frequencies. Max EIRP is restricted to the legal maximum for the UK. Legal 802.11a Band C frequencies for the UK are 5740, 5750, 5760, 5770, 5780, 5830 & 5840.

There is nothing to stop me buying Alvarion equipment and using it without registering with OfCom. The onus is on me to comply with UK regulations. The same should be with MikroTik equipment.

I registered all my 5.8GHz sites with OfCom in 2004, but have yet to receive an invoice from them. So as I am complying with UK law, when is MiktoTik going to release a version of firmware that meets my needs?


Regards

Chris Macneill

One option could be to create a new seperate country that would be for the 5.8Ghz in the UK only.
In this official documents form the OFCOM I found a table of the supported freqeuncies: 5725-5850MHz with the EIRP of 4W (36dBm).
Also in that docuemnt I found out tha the frequencies 5795-5815MHz is not allowed to use.
It means that we could have frequency range from 5725-5795MHz and 5815-5850Mhz.

Question: which freqeuncies you can use for Wireless operations using 20MHz band?
You are sayning that these frequencies can be used as a center freqeuncies:

Legal 802.11a Band C frequencies for the UK are 5740, 5750, 5760, 5770, 5780, 5830 & 5840.

Since in the MT you can have chanel step 5Mhz you can have more than those channels. And what about the small channel feature (10Mhz,5Mhz) - which center frequencies you can have?
And What about the Turbo band, does that Alvarion equipment allow to use the turbo channels, and if yes then on which channels?

The frequencies quoted are those which appear as options in the Alvarion configuration software for 20MHz channels, I guess that means centre frequencies. Alvarion don't allow use of anything other than 20MHz channels in their UK firmware. I don't know if this is Alvarion's limitation or another odd quirk of the UK's Band C licensing.

Most Alvarion equipment is limited to 54Mbps max, but some of their newer Pt2Pt units are rated at up to 100Mbps, so I guess these use turbo mode or 40MHz channels?

If you could add an extra country config to give us the correct UK frequencies that would be very welcome.


Regards


Chris Macneill

In the next v3.0beta version we will add a new country named "UK 5.8 Fixed"
With this country you will be able to use:

Bands: 5ghz,5ghz-10mhz,5ghz-5mhz
Freqeuncy range: 5740-5780,5830-5840 with 5Mhz step.
EIRP: 36dBm (4W)

That sounds great
As I understand it we are allowed 40MHz channels in UK.
Not explicitly, but there's nothing saying you can't do it.

What about 5.4GHz ?

Regards

If the 40Mhz band is allowed, then which exact frequencies can be used? For example which freqeuncies can be selected on the other equipments that are certified for the UK 5.8Ghz?

After consulting with Stephen Patrick. We could also include the 5ghz-turbo band with frequency range for center frequencies: 5750-5770Mhz with 5Mhz step. Maybe some of the users of the UK would comment on this?

Uldis,

I'm not sure about 40MHz channels, the only 5.8GHz equipment I use other than MikroTik is from Alvarion and that uses fixed 20MHz channels. See my earlier post for centre frequencies.

I think the main problem with 40MHz channels in the UK is you would end up with only 1 usable (non-overlapping) channel with a centre frequency between 5.745 & 5.775GHz. In the UK 802.11a Band C is split into two segments, 5.725 to 5.795GHz (70MHz bandwidth, i.e. only one non-overlapping 40MHz channel) and 5.815 to 5.850GHz (35Mhz - not enough bandwidth for a 40MHz channel).

Also we could do with this update in v2.9, I can't afford to run Beta software in a production environment.


Regards


Chris Macneill

Just FYI
Orthogon Spectra uses 30MHz channels in 5.8GHz band and is legal in UK.
I've just emailed a link to Uldis for the installation manuals which includes regulatory information including specific UK information.
Note it refers to 2W EIRP which is now out-of-date, we have 4W according to the new OFCOM ruling.

Regards

CableFree Solutions

Please post the link to the Orthogon manual here so that others, including me, can have a look at it.

Regards

Chris Macneill

Sure - if that doesn't offend MT (if it does, please delete this one post, not the whole thread)
The manual in on the public area of Moto's site, so no confidentiality issues and I don't think I've broken any publishing rules by doing this:
http://www.motorolaptp.com/library/?cat=17
and it's the "P2P600 manual" you want

Regards

Stephen

Please make sure it can use the standard 20MHz channels of 5735, 5755, 5775, 5835.

Please make sure it can use the standard 20MHz channels of 5735, 5755, 5775, 5835.

These fequencies will be available: 5755,5775,5835, but 5735 will not be available. Why should the 5735Mhz be allowed?

Why? Because it is an integral part of Band C and is needed.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/ ... e_2007.pdf

With 20Mz channels, there are four available frequencies that are used by 5.8GHz kit: 5735, 5755, 5775, 5835.