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n21roadie
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Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:29 pm

I am looking for technical explanation to why, when a CPE somewhat obstructed by trees to the AP has very good bandwidth during the day but in the evening the bandwidth is vastly reduced!
The AP is not maxed out and no other customer on that AP has a bandwidth issue in the evening,

What puzzles me why not having freznel zone clearence and I would have thought the bandwidth to CPE would stay near constant when the AP is not maxed out, as the number of lost packets I assume are the same day and night?

Unless this behaviour is due to NV2 TDMA
While using bandwidth test script
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=129513&p=699739#p804836
I noticed the number of lost packets vary from +15k to less than 100 in a scan?
Is there someway to log lost packets in the above script?
Any advice is most welcome!
 
n21roadie
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:24 pm

What I noticed is the high amount of lost-packets, unless I am mistaken NV2 can give extra time slots to compensate for the lost packets during the day but not in the evening, if this is correct can I check ??

The customer has the opinion that network congestion is the cause of the issue and not the tree's and I am trying to find tech info to show him?

duration: 31s
tx-current: 368.0kbps
tx-10-second-average: 445.6kbps
tx-total-average: 637.8kbps
rx-current: 12.1Mbps
rx-10-second-average: 11.9Mbps
rx-total-average: 12.9Mbps
lost-packets: 3083
random-data: no
direction: both
tx-size: 1000
rx-size: 1000
connection-count: 20
local-cpu-load: 16%
remote-cpu-load: 28%
 
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mkx
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:46 pm

Lost-packets is showing that radio link is not good.

There are quite a few decent articles on internet about non line-of-sight radio links (e.g. this one) describing how tree tops affect radio propagation.
 
quackyo
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:04 pm

In the day, the tree is dry. In evenings/night the leaves is moist from dew? The can make a difference on an already bad connection (not LOS).
 
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anav
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:38 pm

I was going to say bugs fly around more at night and bats, but concur the dew theory holds more water.......... bada bing!!!
 
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rextended
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:57 pm

100% Deweloper ;)))
 
n21roadie
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:21 pm

Thanks for all the humorous comments! But to dilute the "dew theory" it’s rains quite often here and the customer hasn’t reported this issue when it does, just occurs in the evening!
If could get more diagnostic information on NV2 TDMA from both AP + CPE!
 
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mkx
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:36 pm

I think you should do some spectrum analysis during hours with reduced throughput. The problem with nv2 is that standard 802.11 devices don't detect it other than some noise and can thus cause some considerable interference to each other ... which gets worse when both nerworks (your nv2 and other 802.11) are heavily used. nstreme OTOH is detected by 802.11 devices. In a busy spectrum it might be better to use nstreme (if you don't want to use plain 802.11) just to allow better co-existence with other wireless networks in the neighbourhood.
 
n21roadie
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:29 pm

Attached is a screenshot of peak / avg...data yesterday between the customer who is complaining and his next door neighbour who is approx 70meters away and CPE is over 8 meters higher?
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:31 pm

Thanks for all the humorous comments! But to dilute the "dew theory" it’s rains quite often here and the customer hasn’t reported this issue when it does, just occurs in the evening!
If could get more diagnostic information on NV2 TDMA from both AP + CPE!
Simply do not make any NLOS link...
And do not fight against windmill...
We have discovered Hot Water?
 
Zacharias
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:30 pm

nstreme OTOH is detected by 802.11 devices
Yes since CSMA/CA by default is not disabled on the nstreme protocol... https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... ss#Nstreme
But will it still be detected if i do disable it ?
Is it detected because of any other reason ?

nstreme uses the polling access protocol vs CSMA/CA used on 802.11...
 
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mkx
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Sat May 01, 2021 12:31 am

I don't think nv2 being invisible to 802.11 devices has anything to do with CSMA/CA. I'm not an expert in nv2 but I guess beacons used in nv2 are incompatible with 802.11 beacons and 802.11 stations don't recognise nv2 AP.
 
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bpwl
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Sat May 01, 2021 3:02 pm

The information to be compared between daytime and evening is in the "Registration" table.
Detailed view (or print) of the connection shows values for CCQ and the resulting RX/TX interface rates. NV2 does not give the ratio Frames/HW Frames, so HW retransmits are hidden (I don't even know if they make sense in non-802.11 protocol).
LOS connection gives 98-100% CCQ, and accordingly the max MCS09 and MCS08 interface rates, in my cases with NV2. (While using 802.11 CCQ drops to 94%)
Improving a NLOS connection with settings and protocols is very hard. We ended up trimming the trees, as it behaves badly when there are more leafs.

If CCQ goes down in the evening, there is more radio activity and more interference. Those busy evening channels should be avoided. ("Freq usage" and "Snooper" are your tools to find busy channels)
NV2 is not seen by 802.11 for co-channel coexistence, but as (strong) noise even when in the same channel. Both destroy each others received signal.
 
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anav
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Sat May 01, 2021 5:07 pm

German solution, if you stihl have problems after this solution one is beyond help!
stihl.JPG
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Sat May 01, 2021 7:29 pm

+10
 
n21roadie
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Sat May 01, 2021 10:12 pm

...
Simply do not make any NLOS link... No I did not make any NLOS link!
And do not fight against windmill... We have one of the best places in western europe for wind turbines !!!
We have discovered Hot Water? Please don't tell our unhappy customer you have discovered hot water as he will boil the 'Spuds" and would drop us like a "Hot Potato".....but only for the fact he has no other provider to go to!
 
n21roadie
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Mon May 03, 2021 1:39 pm

German solution, if you stihl have problems after this solution one is beyond help!

stihl.JPG
Maybe I should rephrase the obstacles - a planted forest of tree's! So I really stihl have issues that are getting bigger by the day!
 
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anav
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Tue May 04, 2021 2:38 am

Nothing like finding out the truth, a forest LOL.
String a wire and dont get caught.
Dig a trench
use satellite connectivity $$$$$
Build a tower
 
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mkx
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Tue May 04, 2021 3:02 pm

Or thoroughly apply the German solution.
 
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anav
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Re: Tree's obstructing CPE LOS to AP ~ bandwidth!

Tue May 04, 2021 10:14 pm

Or thoroughly apply the German solution.
Even the Germans need some help from their Husqy Swedish friends!
Husq.jpg
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