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USA Regulatory Domain - UNII-4 and UNII-2

Sat May 29, 2021 8:07 pm

Hello!

UNII-4 spectrum 5835-5895 was authorized for unrestricted indoor use without DFS/TPC in the USA on 18NOV2020. As I understand it, in this case, Mikrotik just needs to add those frequencies/channels to the "United States" and "United States 3" Regulatory Domain definitions.
Is there an intention to add those frequencies to the definition for US-locked devices?

Also, it'd be super-cool if we could get a maintained table of devices with UNII-2 approved/unlocked in the US as well. :-)

Thank you all!
 
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Re: USA Regulatory Domain - UNII-4 and UNII-2

Sun May 30, 2021 4:03 am

Hotfix: Use Superchannel mode to get these new frequencies without having to upgrade to some future version for now. Mikrotik is usually sloooow to add new features, so it may be a while.
 
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Re: USA Regulatory Domain - UNII-4 and UNII-2

Sun May 30, 2021 6:39 am

Thanks for the idea!
Unfortunately, this doesn't work with US models due to the FCC-mandated firmware lock to only regulation-compliant frequencies.
As such, until Mikrotik releases updates, RouterOS won't let us use any frequencies that aren't explicitly permitted in our region.

Your idea would absolutely work for the standard/international version of the hardware! This inflexibility is a regulatory restriction that caused Mikrotik to have to ship a completely separate version of every device: the standard models that are completely configurable to the limits of the actual hardware, and a US-version with firmware locks to allowed frequencies and power.
 
Cablenut9
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Re: USA Regulatory Domain - UNII-4 and UNII-2

Sun May 30, 2021 3:46 pm

Your idea would absolutely work for the standard/international version of the hardware! This inflexibility is a regulatory restriction that caused Mikrotik to have to ship a completely separate version of every device: the standard models that are completely configurable to the limits of the actual hardware, and a US-version with firmware locks to allowed frequencies and power.
Actually, what I do is import all my Mikrotik WiFi devices straight from Latvia (the EuroDK store) and skip that US-only madness. Additionally, if I could only get the US version, I could reflash the devices with OpenWRT which can be modified to do whatever I need it to do.
 
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Re: USA Regulatory Domain - UNII-4 and UNII-2

Sun May 30, 2021 7:17 pm

Your idea would absolutely work for the standard/international version of the hardware! This inflexibility is a regulatory restriction that caused Mikrotik to have to ship a completely separate version of every device: the standard models that are completely configurable to the limits of the actual hardware, and a US-version with firmware locks to allowed frequencies and power.
Actually, what I do is import all my Mikrotik WiFi devices straight from Latvia (the EuroDK store) and skip that US-only madness. Additionally, if I could only get the US version, I could reflash the devices with OpenWRT which can be modified to do whatever I need it to do.
That definitely works at a pure technical level. There are a few vendors here in the US that will sell the International version to you id you specifically ask for it, but they don't by default because those versions aren't FCC compliant, much less approved. As such, what you're suggesting is illegal in the US, unfortunately.
To clarify, not illegal to posess but illegal to use.
 
Cablenut9
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Re: USA Regulatory Domain - UNII-4 and UNII-2

Sun May 30, 2021 9:50 pm

As such, what you're suggesting is illegal in the US, unfortunately.
To clarify, not illegal to posess but illegal to use.
Like clockwork, I get this boilerplate line every time something like this is brought up. However, there are a couple counterpoints:
-> Many FCC rules are outdated or aren't enforced. For example, many junky cheapo Chinese gadgets have little to no protection from creating RF interference, yet are sold by the truckload on sites like Amazon. However, this creates a bit of a problem. If they exceed designated levels of interference creation, are the standards too low or are the gadgets incompliant?
-> If the mythical black vans come by and spy on your RF activity, then that could be inadmissible/illegal by a certain amendment(s) in the US constitution.
-> If used properly, incompliant RF gadgets are undetectable with respect to a normal operating environment. If you blasted TDWR-range WiFi in a concrete room, nobody would ever know except for the devices located within it.
-> Due to the coronavirus pandemic, many places are still in a lockdown phase and I bet there's no RF spying happening here.
-> If the FCC requires certain code to be put into RF devices to prevent certain frequencies from being used, this is a violation of another amendment in the US constitution, so we'll always be able to use the hardware to its fullest potential if needed, unless hardware-level restriction are created.

Until we fix the RF regulatory landscape, Superchannel is the new Superman.
 
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Re: USA Regulatory Domain - UNII-4 and UNII-2

Mon May 31, 2021 12:00 am

That was a lot of words that boil down to "I don't agree with the laws so I choose to ignore them."
The firmware frequency/power locks requirement went into effect a bit over 5 years ago, so this is not a rule from the 60s being applied to the internet kind of thing. It's been a very real problem that people were telling their devices to use every bit of spectrum they were capable of, that's what got us this rule.
It is illegal for Mikrotik, or any other vendor, to sell devices without the firmware locks to people in the US that they have a reasonable belief won't be exported for use, and it's against the same law for us to use them, whether we agree with the laws or not.
Used correctly, I do agree with you that there is pretty much zero chance of getting caught; however, willfully recommending random internet strangers to break the law is usually against various forum ToS.
The correct, legal path to enabling this spectrum with Mikrotik here is the same path as it is for Cisco, Aruba, and Ubiquity: we need to wait for a software and firmware update.
 
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Re: USA Regulatory Domain - UNII-4 and UNII-2

Mon May 31, 2021 2:17 am

That was a lot of words that boil down to "I don't agree with the laws so I choose to ignore them."
That was the whole point of my post, as sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
The firmware frequency/power locks requirement went into effect a bit over 5 years ago, so this is not a rule from the 60s being applied to the internet kind of thing. It's been a very real problem that people were telling their devices to use every bit of spectrum they were capable of, that's what got us this rule.
Why are people doing this to begin with? It's a symptom of a deeper problem, not the problem itself.
It is illegal for Mikrotik, or any other vendor, to sell devices without the firmware locks to people in the US that they have a reasonable belief won't be exported for use, and it's against the same law for us to use them, whether we agree with the laws or not.
Mikrotik is in Latvia, so the most the US could do is block imports of Mikrotik products. If they only blocked the import of International versions, then that'd be a problem at Customs because there is only a subtle difference in labeling between the two versions.
Used correctly, I do agree with you that there is pretty much zero chance of getting caught; however, willfully recommending random internet strangers to break the law is usually against various forum ToS.
This is tricky, because the forum is in Latvia and Mikrotik sells products almost everywhere. If only US laws applied, then that's a problem.
The correct, legal path to enabling this spectrum with Mikrotik here is the same path as it is for Cisco, Aruba, and Ubiquity: we need to wait for a software and firmware update.
The problem is, it's easier and cheaper to only include the capability with new products because you won't have to get FCC recertifications and it keeps profits up, so this is a little unlikely. However, Mikrotik has done it before! :)

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