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rcocchiararo
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CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:04 pm

Hi there

I used to run my home with a HAP AC2 as the main router + wifi, with a CAP AC and an older wifi 2.4ghz only mikrotik as extra wifi APs.

I then got my hands on a non wifi model to have as the core device, and another CAP AC to retire my older one.

At some point before the upgrades, i had determined that i could use channels 32 to 48, 52 to 64, 149 to 161.

This with country set to ARGENTINA and installation to ANY (INDOOR disabled the last batch of channels).

Then i had some issues, and y don't know why, but 52 to 64 joined the rest of 10 to 144 (or so), that can be selected, capsman DOES NOT complain about channel not beeing available, but the CAP interface does not pick it up. (on the interface or wireless window in winbox, it stays as "--managed by CAPsMAN" and no chanel/other info.

Any idea why some chanels behave like that?

I am using manual channel selection after creating them on a list.

There are no neighbors using 5.0ghz wifi here (i live in a house).
/caps-man channel
add band=2ghz-g/n control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX name=2.4 reselect-interval=5m
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac extension-channel=XXXX name=5.0 reselect-interval=5m
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=2412 name="2.4 - C01 xx"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=2462 name="2.4 - C11 xx"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=2437 name="2.4 - C06 xx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac comment="5.0 para CAP AC" control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=5180 name="5.0 - C036" skip-dfs-channels=no
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=5755 name="5.0 - C151 xx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac comment="Solo HAP AC2" control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=5260 name="h5.0 - C052"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XXXX frequency=5240 name="5.0 - C048 xxxx" skip-dfs-channels=no
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=5190 name="5.0 - C038 xx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XXXX frequency=5320 name="h5.0 - C064 xxxx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=5270 name="h5.0 - C054 xx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=5745 name="5.0 - C149"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XXXX frequency=5805 name="5.0 - C161 xxxx"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=2412 name="2.4 - C01"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=2437 name="2.4 - C06"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=2462 name="2.4 - C11"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=2472 name="2.4 - C13"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=2472 name="2.4 - C13 xx"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=2427 name="2.4 - C04"
add band=2ghz-onlyn control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=2452 name="2.4 - C09"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=5500 name="x5.0 - C100"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=5510 name="x5.0 - C102 xx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XXXX frequency=5560 name="x5.0 - C112 xxxx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=disabled frequency=5580 name="x5.0 - C116"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=5590 name="x5.0 - C118 xx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XXXX frequency=5630 name="x5.0 - C126 xxxx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XXXX frequency=5690 name="x5.0 - C138 xxxx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac comment=";;; no funcionan no se xq" control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XXXX frequency=5210 name="x5.0 - C042 xxxx"
add band=5ghz-a/n/ac control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XXXX frequency=5775 name="x5.0 - C155 xxxx"
 
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mkx
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:34 pm

The problem with CAPsMAN provisioned wireless network is that CAPs still autonomously select channels to operate (out of list of allowed channels provisioned by CAPsMAN) - unless you manualy configure provisioning rules for each CAP. If all CAPs do the frequency scans at the very same time (e.g. after CAPsMAN reset), they will see all channels unoccupied and might all select the same one to operate. If you kick one of CAPs to rescan channels (e.g. by rebooting CAP or by some other operation), then it will see other APs transmitting (at least beacons) and might choose different channel.
 
rcocchiararo
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:53 pm

The problem with CAPsMAN provisioned wireless network is that CAPs still autonomously select channels to operate (out of list of allowed channels provisioned by CAPsMAN) - unless you manualy configure provisioning rules for each CAP. If all CAPs do the frequency scans at the very same time (e.g. after CAPsMAN reset), they will see all channels unoccupied and might all select the same one to operate. If you kick one of CAPs to rescan channels (e.g. by rebooting CAP or by some other operation), then it will see other APs transmitting (at least beacons) and might choose different channel.
Mm, I manually povisioned each one (failed to get auto channel working and gave up).

But that seems unrelated to my issue, if I only enable 1 cap my issue remains, channels outside 36-48 and 149-161 do nothing (the cap's wifi interfaces remain as "managed with capsman" but with no channel in use (hence, no ssid available)
 
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mkx
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:26 pm

Channels "which do nothing" are DFS channels. When AP selects one of those channels as candidate for operations, it has to monitor activity on channel for 1 to 10 minutes and be silent during that period of time.
 
gotsprings
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:38 am

When I use caps-man... And preface it with the client what the limits are... I use create enabled. That way I can set the channels and power levels manually.

Create dynamic prevented me from making those settings and it picked any channel it wanted. It was like channel 4 in 2.4. I didn't see where I could say... Only use 1,6,11. So I stuck with create enable so I could pick those.
 
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mkx
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:29 am

@gotsprings: how exactly do you adjust settings for particular CAP?

It is possible to set particular parameters for a CAP even if create-dynamic-enabled if you create per-CAP provisioning rules ... for this to work several provisioning rules are needed: a general catch-all rule and several specific for individual CAPs. The general rule has to be the last one (provisioning follows the same from-top-to-bottom descent as it's in use in firewall filter), while the specific ones have radio-mac=XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX property set. Then CAP with wireless interface with matching MAC address will use that particular provisioning rule ... which means that multi-radio CAPs (e.g. 2.4GHz / 5GHz dual radio APs) need two provisioning rules (unless the general rule fits one of radios, e.g. the 2.4GHz one).
 
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:18 pm

@mkx

I select the radio I want adjust and I saved all the channels frequency so I can hit it in a drop down.

/Caps-manager cap interface channel
 
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mkx
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:22 pm

But does this way of setting things survive reboots (of either CAPsMAN or CAP)? The way I described settings are there for good. Configuration export and backup file has it as well ...
 
gotsprings
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:27 pm

Yup survives reboot. A cap that has been reset will pick up this config when it's MAC matches the configuration.

Shows up in a export of the router running caps-man in plain text
 
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mkx
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:33 pm

Can you show export of such setup? I'm intrigued ;-)
 
gotsprings
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:34 pm

Sorry for the delay
/caps-man interface
add channel=channel11 channel.frequency=2412 configuration=MainWireless disabled=\
    no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=74:4D:28:F7:1B:95 master-interface=none name=cap1 \
    radio-mac=74:4D:28:F7:**:** radio-name=744D28F7****
add configuration=Old disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=76:4D:28:F7:**:** \
    master-interface=cap1 name=cap2 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=\
    764D28F7****
add configuration=Eoip disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=76:4D:28:F7:**:** \
    master-interface=cap1 name=cap3 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=\
    764D28F7****
add channel="channel36 80mhz" configuration=MainWireless disabled=no l2mtu=1600 \
    mac-address=74:4D:28:F7:**:** master-interface=none name=cap4 radio-mac=\
    74:4D:28:F7:1B:96 radio-name=744D28F7****
add configuration=Old disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=76:4D:28:F7:**:** \
    master-interface=cap4 name=cap5 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=\
    764D28F7****
add configuration=Eoip disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=76:4D:28:F7:**:** \
    master-interface=cap4 name=cap6 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=\
    764D28F7****
add channel="channel149 80mhz" configuration=MainWireless disabled=no l2mtu=1600 \
    mac-address=74:4D:28:F7:**:** master-interface=none name=cap7 radio-mac=\
    74:4D:28:F7:1B:97 radio-name=744D28F7****
add configuration=Old disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=76:4D:28:F7:**:** \
    master-interface=cap7 name=cap8 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=\
    764D28F7****
add configuration=Eoip disabled=no l2mtu=1600 mac-address=76:4D:28:F7:**:** \
    master-interface=cap7 name=cap9 radio-mac=00:00:00:00:00:00 radio-name=\
    764D28F7****
 
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mkx
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:27 pm

Thanks. I've learned another way of setting per-CAP settings (apart from making it in /capsman provisioning).
 
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anav
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:28 pm

Nice, but I cannot help notice that to achieve success one has to spend time on individual caps. So it would appear that using capsman is less of an efficiency tool than meets the eye.
Caveat, I have been too shy/lazy/intimidated to try capsman (and soon no need as replacing capacs with other vendors equipment) and thus do not understand all the benefits.

So the question remains, do the advantages outweigh the disadvanges or perhaps better stated do the advantaged outweigh just configure caps individually??
The answer is probably scenario dependent.

All I see from an outsiders perspective is the plethora of issues raised by posters (by far the majority in the wifi forum). To that end, a starter video was recently published which seems like a good idea.......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taQ70m0DVYA (free plug for dude with beard and glasses)

The reason I noted intimidated above is that the thought of configuring vlans/bridges etc and changing my config for my capacs from individual to capsman may lead to long delays (and family distress).
 
rcocchiararo
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:55 pm

I didnt really understand the config posted above, but i find that using capsman allows me to just plug a new AP pressing the mode button so that it goes to CAPs mode, it then shows up in capsman and i configure it as desired.

I failed on the auto channel selection, but since this is my home, where i have 3 2.4 ghz capsman managed radios and 2 5.0 (the other 5.0 is used to connect via CPE to my wifi and it only repeats on 2.4), i didnt need any auto stuff i have 1/6/11 with no extra with and then 2 non overlaping 5.0 80ghz with channels).

Might be different on enterprise, but we have all merakis there :P (wifi only, switches are either cisco/huawei and FW are Small PAlo Alto's).

So, at least at home, i like it cause i can admin everything from my non wifi mikrotik router.
 
gotsprings
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Re: CAP AC, HAP AC2, CAPSMAN and channels

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:10 pm

@anav
Yes I have to click on each cap once they provision.

I have to name them anyways so i can see what device is connected to what AP.
I do set my channels and power levels based on the actual deployment.

But let us not forget... MIKROTIK RADIOS ARE EASILY 6 YEARS OUT OF DATE.

When i started with Caps-Man, I had no idea how far behind the radios were. I had not yet seen how they crumble under real loads. How interference makes them useless. How sometimes a radio will just stop working until rebooted. How MU-MIMO was never going to be supported. Etc etc

Now if I am dealing with a house in the middle of no where with VERY SLOW internet... I will warn the customer repeatedly... "THESE RADIOS ARE CHEAP!!! THEY HAVE FLAWS!!!"
Now I took this attitude when I could get a Ruckus 2x2 for $475 or a cap AC for $70.

But after enough times reaching into my own pockets to replace caps...
And Ruckus brining there prices way down... I don't often deal with caps-man anymore.

But every time I do... I look at all the stuff I wrote to take advantage of routerOS on wireless. Then things start to go wrong. And speeds don't keep up. And some devcies don't like some radios. BUT I CAN SEE IN ALMOST REALTIME EXACTLY WHERE THE PROBLEM IS... but I spent months with Mikrotik on it. Getting one email per month. Until finally they said that my environment was just to noisy for their hardware. Problem is... I saw the exact same issues across over 100 sites... So its more a "The type of systems I work on."

While I am working on caps-man sites... I say out loud: "Jesus... if this could control a good radio... this would be incredible!!!"

But then something goes wrong... and after enough time I BUY THE OTHER WAP... put it in... and the complaints stop.

Right now I am running caps-man on my hAP AC2 in the basement. Its got one cap... an Audience. I have set it up so its using all 3 radios.
It handles a house full of connections with ease... But as soon as I replace it with A R510 or R550... speeds triple to quadruple, with the same load on the system.

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