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marine88
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Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:00 am

Hi there I have a mikrotik hap ac as router and 4 wifi ap in mesh mode from tp-link deco and 3 cheap gigabyte switchsbur my deco ap are sucking since last update and my network is freezing when making video calls. I will change my setup um. Looking for best price performance should I sell mikrotik and buy ubiquiti or tp link Omada or buy ap from mikrotik?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:04 am

Keep the mikrotik for routing excellent device.
The audience mesh setup is apparently very good but ensure you get proof from users here, the rest of MT wifi I would not recommend at this time.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:05 am

Don't touch MT WiFi with a 10 foot pole! The very fastest I can get is 450 Mbps in the best conditions and that's nothing compared to my gigabit Internet connection. You might be able to go faster if you get the RB4011 Wireless Edition but that's several hundred dollars. However, if you're doing a PtP link, then they make some seriously swanky stuff for that.
 
marine88
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:30 am

Hi there all thanks for the help! I did this diagram with my setup what do you think about it? Is it to bad? Im trying to keep it under 150€ with this setup I only buy to devices and keep my hap ac for wireless AP since is to slow to handle my network routing with 200mb connection

Image

U cant edit my diagram here https://online.visual-paradigm.com/comm ... -msr9vpint
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:18 am

You want to have good a quality traffic but you buy switches for 7$? What quality do you expect?
I do not say that these switches are cause of your problems but they could be.

Why do you pass traffic from ac3 to ac via SG105M and via next one to plex server? Is it over 200m from ac3 to plex?
On the other hand ... do you really need 50 WiFi devices connected and transmiting data all the time? Really?
Try to connect as may of them with cable to lower WiFi crowd.
There is limited WiFi capacity despite the technology you use: 2.4, 5GHz. If you have neighbours with WiFi turned on, they interfere with your network too. Do you have hotspots in phones switched off or do they do more mess?

BTW: Quality costs. With so limited budget there are not too many options to choose from.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:24 am

Hi there I have the switch and test the speed with iperf no problems my problem is with wifi cable traffic isso ok I can't disconnect devices because is smart lights cameras and and sensors. I have bow a tp link deco m4 with units and bow problem. Until now since the update. I have the plex server on 2nd floor and internet gateway is on RC floor I can remove they middle switch from the ac3 to ac I had it because I have a wifi unit on 1st floor bu I don't need it the first floor is only bedroom so wifi only to tablet and phone work good with one ap on RC and other on 2nd. Maybe later I upgrade the switch what are you recommendation?

I did find Access Point Cisco AIR AP1832I-E-K9 used for 20€ should I use this for wifi? What router should I use then?
Last edited by marine88 on Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:35 am

Consider changing at least some of your IoT devices to zigbee ones.
 
marine88
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:56 am

Consider changing at least some of your IoT devices to zigbee ones.
I allready have ones with zigbee in future I will changing to zigbee but bow I need a system that can handle
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:57 pm

I need a system that can handle
You can create a separate wifi 2.4 network working on different channels than your main network.
Although as you already have multiple AP's that can be a challenge.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:59 pm

I did find Access Point Cisco AIR AP1832I-E-K9 used for 20€ should I use this for wifi? What router should I use then?
Don't think you can use this device standalone as an AP without any sort of "controller" (+ license) on your network.
Read very good before spending 20 euro on a device you possibly cannot even use.
De devil is in the details.


https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/w ... r_010.html

Make sure you ask what image is currently on the AP ! It nees the Mobility Express for sure, if there is some lightweight CAPWAP image on it needs to integrate with a WLC (Wireless LAN Controller) of some sort.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:42 pm

I did find Access Point Cisco AIR AP1832I-E-K9 used for 20€ should I use this for wifi? What router should I use then?
Don't think you can use this device standalone as an AP without any sort of "controller" (+ license) on your network.
Read very good before spending 20 euro on a device you possibly cannot even use.
De devil is in the details.


https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/w ... r_010.html

Make sure you ask what image is currently on the AP ! It nees the Mobility Express for sure, if there is some lightweight CAPWAP image on it needs to integrate with a WLC (Wireless LAN Controller) of some sort.
yeah cisco is a bit complicated i like mikrotik if possible i prefer mikrotik
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:48 pm

You want to have good a quality traffic but you buy switches for 7$? What quality do you expect?
I do not say that these switches are cause of your problems but they could be.

Why do you pass traffic from ac3 to ac via SG105M and via next one to plex server? Is it over 200m from ac3 to plex?
On the other hand ... do you really need 50 WiFi devices connected and transmiting data all the time? Really?
Try to connect as may of them with cable to lower WiFi crowd.
There is limited WiFi capacity despite the technology you use: 2.4, 5GHz. If you have neighbours with WiFi turned on, they interfere with your network too. Do you have hotspots in phones switched off or do they do more mess?

BTW: Quality costs. With so limited budget there are not too many options to choose from.

I change the config a litle bit I realized that i can live without the switchs what do you think now? Does the MikroTik RBwAPG-5hacD2HnD - WAP AC works good in mesh withoud cables?

Image
I need a system that can handle
You can create a separate wifi 2.4 network working on different channels than your main network.
Although as you already have multiple AP's that can be a challenge.
I should use virtual network or cheap wifi ap only for domotic stuff?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:53 pm

I should use virtual network or cheap wifi ap only for domotic stuff?
Virtual interfaces can't work on different channels than its masters, so I meant additional cheap 2.4Ghz AP(s).
 
marine88
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:55 pm

I should use virtual network or cheap wifi ap only for domotic stuff?
Virtual interfaces can't work on different channels than its masters, so I meant additional cheap 2.4Ghz AP(s).

Do you recommend anything in concrete ?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:10 pm

Any 2.4 APs will do.
They don't even need to be from the same vendor or anything.
Not if sensors or wifi light bulbs need roaming or anything like that.

cAP lite is an example.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm

Don't touch MT WiFi with a 10 foot pole! The very fastest I can get is 450 Mbps in the best conditions and that's nothing compared to my gigabit Internet connection. You might be able to go faster if you get the RB4011 Wireless Edition but that's several hundred dollars. However, if you're doing a PtP link, then they make some seriously swanky stuff for that.
Bro... dont spread bad information. Just because you had bad experience or bad configuration. ALL Comes down to configuration + environmental variables.

Majority of CONSUMER Access Points at the SAME price level have the SAME performance. Look at the spec sheets of similar Netgear, TP-Link, Ubiquiti AP's.... Their sepcs, even MikroTiks are DUPLEX! So 5Ghz 2/3 band at 866Mbps would be ~430Mbps simplex. 5Ghz 1733Mbps would be ~600... If you want Gigabit performance, hardwire your device(s).

I've been using MikroTik wireless for years with good success. If my customers require more performance or EXPECT more from them; then go with more expensive product/brand/solution.

Try the new hAPac3 with v7

new MikroTik Ap's should hopefully be soon released.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:28 pm

Don't touch MT WiFi with a 10 foot pole! The very fastest I can get is 450 Mbps in the best conditions and that's nothing compared to my gigabit Internet connection. You might be able to go faster if you get the RB4011 Wireless Edition but that's several hundred dollars. However, if you're doing a PtP link, then they make some seriously swanky stuff for that.
Bro... dont spread bad information. Just because you had bad experience or bad configuration. ALL Comes down to configuration + environmental variables.

Majority of CONSUMER Access Points at the SAME price level have the SAME performance. Look at the spec sheets of similar Netgear, TP-Link, Ubiquiti AP's.... Their sepcs, even MikroTiks are DUPLEX! So 5Ghz 2/3 band at 866Mbps would be ~430Mbps simplex. 5Ghz 1733Mbps would be ~600... If you want Gigabit performance, hardwire your device(s).

I've been using MikroTik wireless for years with good success. If my customers require more performance or EXPECT more from them; then go with more expensive product/brand/solution.

Try the new hAPac3 with v7

new MikroTik Ap's should hopefully be soon released.
Did you check my diagram? I put the hap ac3 as main router I only have 250mb internet speed i dont need nothing more then 500mbs
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:35 pm

Looked at your diagram.

Why are you using a hap AC to connect your plex server. Use a regular network L2 switch for better performance? OR are you wireless bridging??

Yes the hAP Ac3 router would work just fine given your internet connection speed. You should be able to get that speed while connected to 5Ghz interface ON! the hAP ac3 unit itself...

5Ghz-only-ac, Ch5180 or 5200, 20Mhz/Ceee.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:45 pm

Why are you using a hap AC to connect your plex server. Use a regular network L2 switch for better performance?
What is wrong with hAP ac's switching performance, so "regular" switch should be somehow better?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:55 pm

Any 2.4 APs will do.
They don't even need to be from the same vendor or anything.
Not if sensors or wifi light bulbs need roaming or anything like that.

cAP lite is an example.
What about MIKROTIK - RB941-2ND-TC 300MBIT/S is 20€ in a local store!
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:56 pm

Looked at your diagram.

Why are you using a hap AC to connect your plex server. Use a regular network L2 switch for better performance? OR are you wireless bridging??

Yes the hAP Ac3 router would work just fine given your internet connection speed. You should be able to get that speed while connected to 5Ghz interface ON! the hAP ac3 unit itself...

5Ghz-only-ac, Ch5180 or 5200, 20Mhz/Ceee.
The hap ac is my main router now so i found ok to have it doitn switch and wifi ap don´t u agree?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:09 pm

Why are you using a hap AC to connect your plex server. Use a regular network L2 switch for better performance?
What is wrong with hAP ac's switching performance, so "regular" switch should be somehow better?
Yes, hAP ac switching performance is fine, all comes down to how configured. using switch chip vs bridge-vlan. If no vlans then yeah - sure wirespeed :). Just figured depending on configuration or requirements at tomes a regular L2 switch easier for most.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:12 pm

Looked at your diagram.

Why are you using a hap AC to connect your plex server. Use a regular network L2 switch for better performance? OR are you wireless bridging??

Yes the hAP Ac3 router would work just fine given your internet connection speed. You should be able to get that speed while connected to 5Ghz interface ON! the hAP ac3 unit itself...

5Ghz-only-ac, Ch5180 or 5200, 20Mhz/Ceee.
The hap ac is my main router now so i found ok to have it doitn switch and wifi ap don´t u agree?
hAP AC should suffice and be just fine as both. Although the hAp ac3 has more powerful cpu, external antenna's with higher gain; but slightly slower 5Ghz chip
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:13 pm

Why are you using a hap AC to connect your plex server. Use a regular network L2 switch for better performance?
What is wrong with hAP ac's switching performance, so "regular" switch should be somehow better?
Yes, hAP ac switching performance is fine, all comes down to how configured. using switch chip vs bridge-vlan. If no vlans then yeah - sure wirespeed :). Just figured depending on configuration or requirements at tomes a regular L2 switch easier for most.
I don´t know yet how to configure all but in my diagram what do you think is the best performace? can i do mesh betwen 3 wifi AP or is non sense? the not wired AP is gonna be the worst performace but i need that for outside cameras and barbecue wifi don´t have any way to put cable there!
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:35 pm

Why are you using a hap AC to connect your plex server. Use a regular network L2 switch for better performance?
What is wrong with hAP ac's switching performance, so "regular" switch should be somehow better?
Yes, hAP ac switching performance is fine, all comes down to how configured. using switch chip vs bridge-vlan. If no vlans then yeah - sure wirespeed :). Just figured depending on configuration or requirements at tomes a regular L2 switch easier for most.
I don´t know yet how to configure all but in my diagram what do you think is the best performace? can i do mesh betwen 3 wifi AP or is non sense? the not wired AP is gonna be the worst performace but i need that for outside cameras and barbecue wifi don´t have any way to put cable there!
you can "Mesh" WDS bridge the access-point. Or even make the outside access point be put in ap-bridge station mode. I am doing something similar myself. Depending on LOS and any walls -- you could use the 5Ghz channel and then leave 2.4Ghz for all devices outside [think distance/range]. But understand your bandwidth will be less.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:42 pm

all comes down to how configured. using switch chip vs bridge-vlan.
Why on earth would anyone configure bridge vlan filtering on a device that have a single switch-chip but no hw-offloading for vlans?
Only the need the use of IP firewall or something like that, but "regular" switch can't do all that, so one shouldn't complain about performance then.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:50 pm

Why are you using a hap AC to connect your plex server. Use a regular network L2 switch for better performance?
What is wrong with hAP ac's switching performance, so "regular" switch should be somehow better?
Yes, hAP ac switching performance is fine, all comes down to how configured. using switch chip vs bridge-vlan. If no vlans then yeah - sure wirespeed :). Just figured depending on configuration or requirements at tomes a regular L2 switch easier for most.
I don´t know yet how to configure all but in my diagram what do you think is the best performace? can i do mesh betwen 3 wifi AP or is non sense? the not wired AP is gonna be the worst performace but i need that for outside cameras and barbecue wifi don´t have any way to put cable there!
you can "Mesh" WDS bridge the access-point. Or even make the outside access point be put in ap-bridge station mode. I am doing something similar myself. Depending on LOS and any walls -- you could use the 5Ghz channel and then leave 2.4Ghz for all devices outside [think distance/range]. But understand your bandwidth will be less.

Yup so maybe I dont need a MikroTik RBwAPG-5hacD2HnD - WAP AC since is to expensive and only connectiing 5 clients max what do you guys think?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:20 pm

all comes down to how configured. using switch chip vs bridge-vlan.
Why on earth would anyone configure bridge vlan filtering on a device that have a single switch-chip but no hw-offloading for vlans?
Only the need the use of IP firewall or something like that, but "regular" switch can't do all that, so one shouldn't complain about performance then.
I Was giving an example as to my reasoning to some people are better off using a regular L2 switch instead of MikroTik router as a switch.....

My reason exactly on doing bridge-vlan on model with proper switch chip. That device has the QCA8337 -- switch chip with vlan features..... So use the switch vlan option.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:50 pm

Should I opt to pfsense and unifi Wifi ap?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:04 pm

Should I opt to pfsense and unifi Wifi ap?
No? We're saying you can use the MikroTik hAP AC3 as router + Wifi combo - great device. Or if you prefer just use Mikrotik router and any brand wireless access point you want.

your design was OK.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:39 am

Should I opt to pfsense and unifi Wifi ap?
No? We're saying you can use the MikroTik hAP AC3 as router + Wifi combo - great device. Or if you prefer just use Mikrotik router and any brand wireless access point you want.

your design was OK.
Thank you one more question is possible to use CAPsMAN with non wired devices?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:17 am

As a moderator I am quite monothematic. Plese use "post reply" button instead of "quote".
Read the topic from my signature.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:00 am

all comes down to how configured. using switch chip vs bridge-vlan.
Why on earth would anyone configure bridge vlan filtering on a device that have a single switch-chip but no hw-offloading for vlans?
Well, one could also ask "why on earth does RouterOS not map the simple case of bridg-with-vlan-filtering to switch chip programming, when there are no features configured the swich chip cannot handle".
IMHO a bridge without spanning-tree and without filtering rules but with VLANs configured and only hw-accelerated ports should be mapped 1:1 to switch chip programming.
(and probably existing switch chip programming should be converted to the corresponding bridge config when possible)
This would tremendously reduce confusion. It was done when master/slave port config was phased out, so why not now?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:30 am

Well, one could also ask "why on earth does RouterOS not map the simple case of bridg-with-vlan-filtering to switch chip programming, when there are no features configured the swich chip cannot handle".
Yes, something like the checkbox "translate vlan config to switch-chip" comes to mind.
But won't it be the same thing as hw-offloaded vlans on CRS3xx?
If one can be done, then why not the other?
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:08 pm

If one can be done, then why not the other?

I guess that's because on CRS3xx everything can be offloaded (if one uses single bridge; IIRC when the whole bridge HW offloading was introduced, it was said that HW offloading of multiple bridges might come in some future), but it can't be on other switches because some might lack some functionality (e.g. VLANs are not configurable on RTL and MT switch chips under ROS for a well known reason). And then the code for HW offload would become quite heavy running all the checking whether some functionality can be offloaded to a particular switch chip in use or not (currently the check for most bridge functions is simple: is the board in use CRS3xx or not?). I've given up the hope extensive HW offload would happen in ROS v6, instead I'm hoping to see it in v7 (once devs get their heads out of CRS3xx ;-) ).
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:30 pm

And then the code for HW offload would become quite heavy running all the checking whether some functionality can be offloaded to a particular switch chip in use or not (currently the check for most bridge functions is simple: is the board in use CRS3xx or not?
The exact same check would be needed for this "translate to switch-chip..." button too.
And that's actually my point - if it can be done as an additional setting, then it can be "merged" into hw-offloading as well.
If it's too much work - then it is more or less the same for both cases.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:54 pm

I mounted on my docker the tp link Omada and is great how simple it is to manage the network there I will spend more money if I change to tp link Omada devices but I don't know if I'm good enough to create vlan and all that stuff that I need with mikrotik I love the brand and and will be cheaper if I use mikrotik but router os I hard. Please help me guys
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:57 pm

The exact same check would be needed for this "translate to switch-chip..." button too.
The plain switch offloading works automatically. You select "HW offload" in the port and the device itself checks if it can offload and if so it does it. That is switch programming from the bridge, I would think.
But the slightly more complex case of VLAN on a bridge is never offloaded when on a router, only on those CRS3xx devices. But you CAN offload it when doing it yourself on the switch chip.
(e.g. on a RB2011 or on an old-style CCR1009)

Now that we are forced to use a bridge on every switch (i.e. after the master-port concept was dropped), I would expect that the switch menu would be deprecated and everything done from the bridge level.
The characteristics of the device would determine what HW offload can be done.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:17 pm

I would expect that the switch menu would be deprecated and everything done from the bridge level.
The characteristics of the device would determine what HW offload can be done.
Yes, that would be close to ideal.
But not really possible until CRS1XX/2XX are long gone too - their switch menu is far too huge and complex to be be rewritten into the bridge menu.

Also I can see another potential confusion - now it is easy to understand what config can definitely run on switch chip - as long as you use switch menu, you are safe.
However if everything is done in the bridge menu one has to remember exactly what settings can be offloaded, and what - not: configuration will work anyway, but the performance can differ dramatically.
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:35 pm

However if everything is done in the bridge menu one has to remember exactly what settings can be offloaded, and what - not

Hmmm ... you know that by heart? I have to check if bridge port still shows "H" among status flags all the time ;-)
 
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:55 pm

Indeed. When it is not offloaded you see that in the port list. That is also the case for plain bridges without VLAN: you can see which ports are offloaded (i.e. physical ethernet ports for the first bridge on the same switch chip) and which ports are not (e.g. wlan interfaces, EoIP tunnels, more than one bridge on the same switch chip, etc).
No need to "remember" it when you can see it, at most you are left puzzled when HW offloading does not get enabled.
 
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xvo
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:35 pm

Hmmm ... you know that by heart? I have to check if bridge port still shows "H" among status flags all the time ;-)
Sure thing.
But when you don't see an "H", your heart starts running faster, palms begin to sweat and you are like "what have I done wrong this time?!" trying to remember everything you've done to your life for the last couple of years...
 
pe1chl
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:17 pm

Well sure after I laboriously converted my 4-bridge setup (separate bridge for each VLAN) + switch config (which resulted after upgrading RouterOS on a setup with master/slave ports) to the "single bridge VLAN-filtering" setup that was supposed to be so much better, I was puzzled a while why it no longer was HW offloaded, while it was in the original setup.
Then I decided not to worry about it (as there is little local traffic here) and to be a bit more wary when a new exciting feature is introduced in RouterOS.
 
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anav
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Re: Wifi net work for home with Iot (50 devices)

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:34 pm

K.I.S.S.

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