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janzich
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Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:56 pm

This is likely a beginners question. I recently got a gigabit Internet, and after a quick research I bought the MikroTik RB4011iGS+RM router and hAP ac² access point. Long story short, I am getting between 200 - 300 MBit/s on the access point, and the upload speed is even lower while on my old Comcast router I was able to get 320 MBit/s likely maxing up my Internet speed. In wired mode, it's all fine. I get 800 - 900 MBit/s both ways. I wonder if the hAP ac² is able to higher speeds to start with or if I need one of the multi-anthena access points supporting multiple streams. Is there a MikroTik product that would suite my needs? Or am I missing something else?
 
janzich
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:16 am

Just for a good measure, I did a factory reset, and selected WISP AP leaving everything on default, but I still can’t get higher than 300 Mbit/s download speeds. And I am I connected with no exception enabled now. However, I noticed that my upload speeds are actually not worse (anymore, or I misread it originally). They seem comparable, and sometimes even better. I believe I saw over 400 Mbit/s at one point. Still, overall I tend to get very variable results, and when running speed tests, the speed measurement seems to often stall and fluctuate. For reference, my computer is about 10 feet from the access point with nothing in-between.
 
janzich
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:06 am

It's very puzzling. Now, I was able to get about 350 Mbit/s down and over 500 Mbit/s up. But it seems it was an exception. On the next measurement a second after, it was back to the usual values. Also, I completely turned off the old Comcast router just in case there was some interference or something like that.
 
janzich
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:34 am

-- deleted accidental duplicate --
Last edited by janzich on Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tapir
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:25 am

What channel width are you using?
I think by default it is set to 20/40. 20/40/80 XXXX may be worth a try if your client card supports an 80Mhz channel.
 
erlinden
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:28 am

Please share your config: /export hide-sensitive file=anynameyoulike
 
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mkx
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:10 pm

In short: getting throughputs above 300 Mbps with your setup is pretty decent (but not great) result. Sure there are devices which do better (using similar hardware) and there are reports that wifiwave2 driver, which comes with ROSv7 (it's testing software) enables much better performance on certain devices (unfortunately hAP ac² will likely not be supported by that driver).


hAP ac² features 2 spatial streams which, when used with 80 MHz channel, means maximum theoretical physical layer throughput of 866.7 Mbps (reference). Given that this number doesn't account for duplex (wifi is half-duplex) nor for multiple access guard time, realistic max throughputs are quite a bit lower, so getting a bit more than half of theoretical maximum throughput is a good result. Then there are higher layer overheads (ethernet framing, IP headers, TCP headers), so application throughput gets even slightly lower. Typical test suites measure application throughput. Some add lower layer overhead, but the maths is not exact as actual overhead might be different from what application assumes. The rule of thumb is that realistic throughput is around one half of theoretical peak physical layer throughput.

If there's any interference inside used frequency band (and wifi devices are usually not very good at measuring and showing it), then the physical layer throughput drops ... either because transmitter has to pause for interference to stop or because transmitter has to use more robust (and slower) transmission modes to beat interference. And having both devices 10 feet apart with direct LOS doesn't cancel the interference, it only helps to make interference effects smaller (and it mostly helps with the second cause mentioned, but not so much with the first cause mentioned).

Surely enough marketing specifications declare this device to be AC1200 device and number implies it should be capable of transfer speeds of 1200Mbps ... but this declaration contains a lot of BS (as do all marketing figures without exceptions). For starters it sums up throughputs of two independent radio interfaces, normal clients can only use one of them. And second, it sums up theoretical maximum physical layer throughputs and then rounds the sum up (actual theoretical maximum physical layer throughputs are 300Mbps for 2.4 GHz part and 866.7Mbps for 5GHz part, so the actual sum is 1166.7Mbps, not 1200Mbps).
 
janzich
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:33 pm

What channel width are you using?
I think by default it is set to 20/40. 20/40/80 XXXX may be worth a try if your client card supports an 80Mhz channel.

It does. I am using a regular MacBook Pro, a 2019 model.

Sometimes, it connects to a 80 Mhz channel, sometimes to 40 Mhz. Otherwise, my RSSI and noise values seem to be within the usual ranges (based on a quick Google search). RSSI is usually between -50 and -40 dBm and noise is between -100 and -90 dBm. Also, it always connects using 2 streams.
 
janzich
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:22 am

Thank you for the detailed response, mkx.

I was already aware of some of the limitations, but given the specs of the device, I expected speeds close to 400 Mbps. But more importantly, I am more worried about the speed fluctuations. Especially, given the Comcast box seems to be super consistent, and it's clearly limited by the speed of my Comcast connection. I believe my Comcast router is the the xFi Advanced Gateway (XB6), if it rings any bell (https://www.xfinity.com/support/article ... userguides).

Long story short, I want to make use of my new Gigabit Internet (Ziply Fiber). Should I get another device? I had a quick look around, and it looks like there are two options from MikroTik: hAP ac³ or RB4011iGS+5HacQ2HnD-IN. I think the hAP ac³ looks a bit too similar to the hAP ac² (same max data rate and also only two spatial streams), and the RB4011iGS+5HacQ2HnD-IN seems like overkill. Is there any other good option in-between? I was originally looking at Ubiquiti, but I could not really find any that would fit my needs. I just want an access point I can put on my desk or in a shelf. I don't need or want the hassle of mounting it to a wall or to a ceiling, and most Ubiquiti access points are mountable and they require PoE.
 
janzich
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:38 am

My config:
# sep/17/2021 00:36:39 by RouterOS 6.47.9
# software id = Q0WM-P7EI
#
# model = RBD52G-5HacD2HnD
# serial number = CDFC0EBEF87B
/interface bridge
add admin-mac=2C:C8:1B:96:77:01 auto-mac=no comment=defconf name=bridge
/interface wireless
set [ find default-name=wlan1 ] band=2ghz-b/g/n channel-width=20/40mhz-XX \
    country="united states" disabled=no distance=indoors frequency=auto \
    installation=indoor mode=ap-bridge ssid=MikroTik-967705 \
    wireless-protocol=802.11
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] band=5ghz-a/n/ac channel-width=\
    20/40/80mhz-XXXX country="united states" disabled=no distance=indoors \
    frequency=auto installation=indoor mode=ap-bridge ssid=MikroTik-967706 \
    wireless-protocol=802.11
/interface list
add comment=defconf name=WAN
add comment=defconf name=LAN
/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] supplicant-identity=MikroTik
/ip pool
add name=dhcp ranges=192.168.88.10-192.168.88.254
/ip dhcp-server
add address-pool=dhcp disabled=no interface=bridge name=defconf
/interface bridge port
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf interface=ether2
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf interface=ether3
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf interface=ether4
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf interface=ether5
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf interface=wlan1
add bridge=bridge comment=defconf interface=wlan2
/ip neighbor discovery-settings
set discover-interface-list=LAN
/interface list member
add comment=defconf interface=bridge list=LAN
add comment=defconf interface=ether1 list=WAN
/ip address
add address=192.168.88.1/24 comment=defconf interface=ether2 network=\
    192.168.88.0
/ip dhcp-client
add comment=defconf disabled=no interface=ether1
/ip dhcp-server network
add address=192.168.88.0/24 comment=defconf gateway=192.168.88.1
/ip dns
set allow-remote-requests=yes
/ip dns static
add address=192.168.88.1 comment=defconf name=router.lan
/ip firewall filter
add action=accept chain=input comment=\
    "defconf: accept established,related,untracked" connection-state=\
    established,related,untracked
add action=drop chain=input comment="defconf: drop invalid" connection-state=\
    invalid
add action=accept chain=input comment="defconf: accept ICMP" protocol=icmp
add action=accept chain=input comment=\
    "defconf: accept to local loopback (for CAPsMAN)" dst-address=127.0.0.1
add action=drop chain=input comment="defconf: drop all not coming from LAN" \
    in-interface-list=!LAN
add action=accept chain=forward comment="defconf: accept in ipsec policy" \
    ipsec-policy=in,ipsec
add action=accept chain=forward comment="defconf: accept out ipsec policy" \
    ipsec-policy=out,ipsec
add action=fasttrack-connection chain=forward comment="defconf: fasttrack" \
    connection-state=established,related
add action=accept chain=forward comment=\
    "defconf: accept established,related, untracked" connection-state=\
    established,related,untracked
add action=drop chain=forward comment="defconf: drop invalid" \
    connection-state=invalid
add action=drop chain=forward comment=\
    "defconf: drop all from WAN not DSTNATed" connection-nat-state=!dstnat \
    connection-state=new in-interface-list=WAN
/ip firewall nat
add action=masquerade chain=srcnat comment="defconf: masquerade" \
    ipsec-policy=out,none out-interface-list=WAN
/system clock
set time-zone-name=America/Los_Angeles
/tool mac-server
set allowed-interface-list=LAN
/tool mac-server mac-winbox
set allowed-interface-list=LAN
 
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mkx
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:38 am

People who did test the upcoming wifiwave2 driver, confirmed that it both increases obtainable throughput as well as reduces throughput fluctuations. Which is something to look forward, however there's no published ETA for ROS v7.1. It seems very likely that hAP ac3 will be supported, RB4011 (wireless version) as well. Currently there's limitation that only single wireless driver can run in device. RB4011 (wireless version) has two distinct wireless chips and wifiwave2 driver doesn't support the 2.4GHz one, so running wifiwave2 driver on RB4011 currently means having only 5GHz WiFi.
There's another possibility: audience. It's got superb radio hardware and both wifi chips are supported by same driver meaning that running ROS v7.1RC with wifiwave2 driver really makes device shine. MSRP places it right in between hAP ac3 and RB4011 :wink:
 
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anav
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:54 pm

mkx, the op has an hapac2, why discuss hapac3 and rb4011.
so I will talk about tplink eap245 that works well for wifi5 for 5 years!
or tplink 660hd which blows audience out of the water
 
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mkx
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:18 pm

OP wrote in OP:

I need one of the multi-anthena access points supporting multiple streams. Is there a MikroTik product that would suite my needs?

Audience with stable ROS v7 (with wifiwave2 driver) would quite probably satisfy the needs and is a Mikrotik product. None of TPlinks you're mentioning answer the question in the second part of quoted text.

Being optimist I believe it's just the matter of time to see stable ROS v7 happen. :wink:
 
tapir
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:35 pm

Do note that Audience with current firmware won’t be any faster. It may even be slower. The Mikrotik drivers for the QCA9984 appear to be pretty poor. I get just over 200Mbps with two units in the same room.

The wifiwave2 drivers are quite limited at the moment. No bridging.
 
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:10 pm

Often people have expectations and their purchases do not match expectations.
What is written in the quotes should not be derived as accurate until one understands
a. the true expectations
b. the full requirements.

Communication is not making assumptions it drilling down to the truth.
 
santyx32
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:57 pm

~300mbps is good for Mikrotik WiFi, if you need something faster there are other vendors out there with more innovative technologies like WiFi 6 and 4x4 UL/DL MU-MIMO as well as OFDMA.
 
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:36 am

Mkx

I have an Audience running that wifi driver.

Best through put I have seen from a Tik WAP.

However, it's Buggy as S--t. The driver sometimes locks up the radio into searching for channel.

Can't see how to tag VLANs.

Adding VAPs cause the radio to lock up too.

Doesn't work with caps-man

Etc
Etc
Etc

It's still getting clobbered by a Ruckus R510 I got in 2016.

And now an r510 is barely more money than an Audience. The ruckus doesn't have the bugs... As it's so mature... It's end of sale.

Mikrotik and WiFi6??? Yeah... Not holding my breath on that one.

Original Poster...
Keep the 4011. Use it as a router. But get you wireless from someone else.
 
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mkx
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:07 am

I have an Audience running that wifi driver.

I know that currently ROS v7 is RC (with quality somewhere in between alpha and beta) and wifiwave2 driver quality is on the same level. But I wrote:
People who did test the upcoming wifiwave2 driver, confirmed that it both increases obtainable throughput as well as reduces throughput fluctuations. Which is something to look forward, however there's no published ETA for ROS v7.1.
and
Audience with stable ROS v7 (with wifiwave2 driver) would quite probably satisfy the needs and is a Mikrotik product.

So I never wrote audience at this time is a stable and fast product, I wrote that it is an interesting product which has prospects of becoming viable solution. You're welcome to express your doubts about feasibility of this solution to OP, but why are you picking on my own opinion? Many of us know your frustrations about Mikrotik's wireless offerings in general and audience in particular ...
 
gotsprings
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:00 pm

Mkx

It wasn't meant to pick on you or dismantle your view.

You stated that an Audience might satisfy the OP.

I was just listing why it is not suitable for anything beyond beta testing, at this point.

And I don't think the author of the Original Post opened with "I wanna be an unpaid Beta Tester." He wanted to know why his system wouldn't do better than the ISP gear.

And on it's best day... Current hardware is never gonna come close to what he was hoping for.

To be honest... I don't condone all this "accepting" and "making excuses" for Mikrotik wifi.

If someone had told me flat out... "It doesn't support wifi 5 properly. ACv2 is not in the foreseeable future."

And Mikrotik support had just told me the truth when I was having so many problems...

I would have just skipped Mikrotik wifi.

Instead... I wasted thousands of hours trying to "fix" something I couldn't. And a lot of clients lost faith in our company, over the problems the Tik WAPs introduced. We lost clients over it. And we went into our own pockets to replace a lot of units, to save relationships.
Last edited by gotsprings on Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
infabo
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Re: Low WiFi speeds on hAP ac²

Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:32 pm

True words.

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