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gigabyte091
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5 GHz WiFi speed

Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:11 pm

I have hAP ac3 as my router for city provided internet. But that router is upstairs so wifi signal is weak downstairs. So i bought cAP ac so i can add AP downstairs and im running capsman on the hAP ac3.

My problem is, i noticed that when im upstairs i have full net speed and mobile phone says that wifi link speed is 866 mbps.

When im downstairs, wifi link speed is 192 mbps and im standing right below the AP. (I checked with winbox in the router to be sure that phone is indeed connected to downstairs ap)

My xiaomi 4k tv stick that is about 4meters away and there is wall between AP and the stick reports wifi link speed of about 780mbps.

What could be causing that ?
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:49 pm

My problem is, i noticed that when im upstairs i have full net speed and mobile phone says that wifi link speed is 866 mbps.
When im downstairs, wifi link speed is 192 mbps and im standing right below the AP. (I checked with winbox in the router to be sure that phone is indeed connected to downstairs ap)
866Mbps is the best case raw speed on 5GHz with 80MHz channel width (2x MIMO)
192Mpbs is the best case raw speed on 5GHz with 20MHz channel width

Looks like your smartphone only connects with 20MHz channel width to your cAP. While the TV stick uses 80MHz on the same cAP.
Hard to tell what the reason is. Probably some incompatibility beween the cAP and your smartphone. Tried some google-fu?
 
gigabyte091
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:35 am

Google-fu ?

Yea, i tried samsung S10 and Xiaomi 11T and results are the same, upstairs router 866 Mbps, downstairs 192 Mbps.

First i thought that i didn't set up correctly something but then tv stick wouldn't connect with that speed.

Edit: I installed same AP at work and it's connecting with 866 mbps link speed. Only diference is that main router is Hex S with no wifi interface

Edit 2: At home, cAP is powered via gigabit poe injector provided with AP, at office, AP is connected directly to poe port on the router.

If i set control channel width to 20MHz, and extension channel to eCee then phone connects with full speed but i lose 2.4 GHz, phone reports that SSID is 5 GHz network only.
 
gigabyte091
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:12 pm

So first device is my mobile phone, and second one is TV stick. Same phone connects normally connects to with full speed at the office.
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jbl42
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:57 am

Really looks like using a different main router makes both of your smartphones connecting with 20MHz only while the TV stick is able to connect with 80MHz at the same time.
Very weird indeed...

Looks like an obscure bug only happening for some "special" combination. I suggest to contact MikroTik support.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:09 am

What frequencies are used? Some devices do not support all frequencies !!!
eCee does not exist in 2.4GHz , that would need 16 channels
The channel blocks are not continuous in 5 GHz neither. The possibility to use 80 MHz wide channels is lmited to continous blocks.
Only 40,56,104,153 are safe to use as eCee (the last one not in Europe). 120 has a 10 minute delay and depends on 116, and 136 may have problems with 132 or 144.
Klembord-2.jpg
.
set control channel width to 20MHz
Is the correct setting
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gigabyte091
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:00 am

So everything is set to automatic, i followed Mikrotik's tutorial on Youtube for setting up CAPsMAN.

Here are some screenshots from office AP and router:

First image is mobile phone connected to the office AP
Mobile phone connected to office AP.jpg
Second image is interface list from AP
Interface list AP office.jpg
I can do the same when i come home from work.

I updated AP from 7.1.1 to 7.1.3, main router is still at 7.1.1 because wife was working so i couldn't upgrade that router.
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:53 pm

OK , so you have a CAP on channel "6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13" in the 2.4 Mhz band, and channel "124-128-132-136" in the 5 GHz band. (=10 minutes weather radar check before starting)
The client device quite often does not support 80MHz. Could be the reason why the RX is only 40MHz.
These "auto" selected channels may have quite some interference depending on the RF environment, what can reduce the TX to 65Mbps. (Interface rate is lowered when transmissions fail) This is a very low MCS1 (https://mcsindex.com/) here now.
Low MCS can also be because there is not enough traffic yet to ramp up the interface rate (only 160 packets so far). MT is slow in ramping up.

With "auto" it's difficult to know what channels will be used. So wifi experience can vary a lot depending on the channels and the RF environment.

Just a wild guess: "What if the client device can/may not support channel 132?" TX will fail often until the AP reduces the channel width in it's stepping down. RX will be at 40MHz as 132 is not used. [Beware: wild guess]
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:48 pm

This first post is at work, where everything is working at max speed

So this is situation at home, i tried to connect with laptop and this is reported by windows:
Laptop at home.jpg
This is wireless interface of AP that is managed by my router
Home AP WiFI interfaces.jpg
This is wireless interface of my main router that is CAPsMAN controller
Main router WiFi interface.jpg
At home there is no other source of 5GHz WiFi network except main router upstairs. Also i can pick up my neighbour WiFi but it's 2.4GHz and is very weak (I live in the house so i don't have any other source of WiFI except my.) I also choose my country so router knows what frequencies are available (Croatia).

At work there is a lot of 2.4 GHz networks but only one 5GHz except ours, and that signal is very weak.

All this screenshots are taken after i take speedtest so there is some load on the network
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:07 pm

Interesting to see CAPsMAN at work with "auto" and no channel list given.

1. Windows
Confirms the 80MHz reception, and 40 MHz sending bandwidth from the PC with the respective max possible interface rate of 866 and 433 Mbps. (Windows does not report the actual used MCS, but just gives the speed of the highest possible MCS). The actual value is in the "Registration Table", and varies over time and possition. That is the real interface performance indicator. But still does not include co-channel coexistence (channel busy?) and adjacent channel interference or noise, or failed transmissions due to distortion. (wall, ceiling, reflective surfaces, ....). However a reduced MCS is an indication of reduced quality (failed transmissions). CAPsMAN registration table does not give as much information as the WLAN used without CAPsMAN (SNR, retransmits, CCQ, signal per stream, ....)

2. cAP ac
2.4GHz : channels used 2447eC = 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
5 GHz : channels used 5560eeCe = 104 108 112 116

3. hAP ac3
2.4GHz : channels used 2452Ce = 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 (nice job CAPsMAN auto, you hit the strongest adjacent channel destructive interference possible)
5 GHz: channels used 5180Ceee = 36 40 44 48 (OK, no DFS, the only non-DFS range in Europe)
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:19 pm

See post from mkx: viewtopic.php?t=159839#p786653

It is possible in Capsman to specify a frequency list which needs to be used, hence avoiding this major destruction :lol:

Something like (2.4GHz example, user exercise to transfer to 5GHz )
/caps-man channel
add band=2ghz-g/n control-channel-width=20mhz extension-channel=XX frequency=2412,2437,2462 name=channels24
<channels 1, 6 and 11>

And then let it select auto from this list like
/caps-man configuration
add channel=channels24 name=net-2.4G <the rest of settings, e.g. SSID>

/caps-man provisioning
add action=create-dynamic-enabled master-configuration=net-2.4G radio-mac=E6:8D:8C:49:EE:4A <optional slave-configurations=>
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:08 pm

Ok, so i tried to make Channel list, for 2.4 and 5 GHz, but i didn't add it to the configuration yet.

So i need to make 2 lists, one for 2.4G and one for 5G, for 2.4G i used frequency for ch 1 and 6 as i detected wifi on channel 11. For 5G i used ch 36 and 60, added control channel, and extension channels XX (20/40) for 2.4G and XXXX (20/40/80) for 5G.
CAPsMAN channel list.jpg
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:06 pm

Secondary channel is for 160 MHz only (80+80)
secondary-channel (integer; Default: "")	Specifies secondary channel, required to enable 80+80MHz transmission. To disable 80+80MHz functionality, set secondary-channel to "" or unset the value via CLI/GUI.
Only channels to be selected are 2412 (1) and 2437 (6) , as you have something already in 2462 (11). Channels for wifi are 20 MHz wide, the numbered channels are 5 MHz wide! If you use Ce, eC or XX then the channel is 40 MHz wide. So only 2412/Ce (1C+6e) or 2437/ec (1e+6C) are possible, and are both using the same channels. [Specifying 2637/XX is leaving it to CAPsMAN again, could be eC or Ce, (1e+6C) or (6C+11e) as setting]

Idem for 5 GHz, wifi channels are 20 MHz wide (numbered channels are 5 wide but they go up by 4 for this)(5180-5200-5220-5240....aka 36-40-44-48) , and XXXX or Ceee, eCee, eeCe, eeeC combine 4 of those 20 MHz channels, using 4 channels like 36+40+44+48.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:46 pm

So it should look like this, i choose one channel only ? So one frequency only. I left extension channel to XX and XXXX for now
Channels updated.jpg
Also I noticed that in configuration i can only choose one channel config, but i have combined 2.4 and 5 GHz into one SSID.
IMG_20220308_210415.jpg
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:22 pm

You have a hap-ac3 which can use with ROS7 the wifiwave2 package.

I have seen significant performance and range improvmenets using the wifiwave2 package.
You will loose capsman capability but maybe thats not needed anymore.

Maybe try that out?
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:54 am

Problem is that my hap-ac3 is upstairs, and i can't connect to it's 5 GHz wifi from downstairs. And i bought cAP ac so i would like to use it. Also im planning to add one AP to my garage/workshop, and that is separate building on my property so i would like to keep CAPsMAN if possible.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:55 am

i can't connect to it's 5 GHz wifi from downstairs.
I understand that point, but thought it could be worth for you trying to see if you could skip the 2nd AP all together.
The issue with an AP-Repeater setup with dual band 2x2 products is, the 5G band is used for backhaul and fronthaul.
In addition having only 2x2 RF capability is not enough and you quickly get into capacity issues.

On my Audience high band 5Ghz (which is 4x4 versus your 2x2) the 5G range and performance with Wifiwave2 is significantly bigger/better then with classic wifi package.
I get good/very good 5G connection where before I had to be on 2G.
I could even reduce Windows client output power to medium from high.
Basically now all 5G capable clients are on 5G, regardless where they are in my house.
2G is now pretty much only for "legacy" products.

I have not seen wifiwave2 on 2x2 device (don't have a compatible device), but believe it is worth trying with some basic setup, and if not working just backup to the previous config.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:38 am

It's really good that you managed that with only one router.

I don't have repeater setup, I have wired connection to the second AP (cat6 cable). If i could i would disable 2.4 GHz as all my devices except CCTV cameras and one older laptop are 5GHz capable.

Also i don't think that i would be able to connect to one router from my garage, that's 4 solid brick walls and about 20 meters from router.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:33 am

Without knowing who you are, how you handle technical challenges, what is important and what not, it is not eveident to make suggestions.

But I can tell my impressions. Take it as just someone elses view and preference.

- I would not use CAPsMAN for only 3 AP's. (I dont even use it for 35 AP's, remote installation). And I do use multiple SSID's for multiple functions (family, visitors, IoT devices, test)
- Mikrotik AP can be setup as just an extra (C)AP. It's a bit hidden how to do it. It basically is just bridging all ethernet and WLAN together. Using Quickset (aaargh) you get very close with "WISP AP - mode=BRIDGE). The only thing to set are the WLAN interfaces : channel/SSID/country/copy of security , and all you want to tune locally. All the rest of RouterOS is not used.
- DHCP server, firewall rules, NAT, DNS, gateway is all handled in the hAP ac3 only

Why? You have different tuning requirements per AP. For controlling the use of different channels among the AP you need multiple configurations. There is a performance gain (better aggregation) when not using CAPsMAN. There is better wifi feedback (Registration table).
If the overal view is important, then (I) use DUDE. It collects all information, has a nice map with devices and links, is a central Syslog, monitors and warns, has a long history of data and logs, collects and displays SNMP data, many tools with 'right click', ....
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:00 pm

If you have ethernet between cap and AP connection I would try out bwpl suggestions:
Skip capsmam, which allows you to use wifiwave2 on the main AP. This alone might already solve the 5Ghz problems
of closed by clients you have today.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:13 pm

@bpwl

I took your advice since you are more competent than me, and I disabled CAPsMAN, put my downstairs AP to WISP AP mode, bridge, not the router.

This is the screenshot of a quick set in downstairs AP (Note: It won't let me change the country and it has only a 5GHz band but I configured each interface manually anyway, not through Quick set)
Downstairs AP new config pic_1.jpg
Then I set SSID, one for 2.4 and another one for 5GHz (Note: Main router 2.4GHz interface and downstairs AP interface have the same SSID. And the same is done for the 5 GHz interface)
Downstairs AP new config pic_3.jpg
I don't know which setting to use for channel width so I put these for testing, aaaand it's working like a charm.

As you can see below, in the registration table of the downstairs AP, the first device is my older laptop with only 2.4GHz, but the second device is my mobile phone that connects with maximum speed.
(Note: there is a solid brick wall between AP and mobile phone)
Downstairs AP new config pic_2.jpg
Here are the settings for the main router
Main router new config pic_1.jpg
Now, is it possible in connect list to add devices and then via signal strength force device to connect to another AP? For eg. when I go upstairs signal level drops, I can test to which level signal drop and then put a slightly stronger signal value in the router at which the router disconnects the device. Then the device will connect to another AP which have the same SSID.

@WeWiNet

Is there any diference in setting up wireless with that extra package ? I would like to give it a try.
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:45 pm

Great !

You cannot force a client to connect to another AP. The client decides! We tend to trigger the client into re-evaluating its connection by kicking it off the current AP. Not very nice , but a "sticky client" can be very sticky and sink to the ultra lowest rate before it disconnects, or just never disconnects.

"Access list" is the tool to reject a connection of a client with a too low signal.
Settings tuned per AP in the multi-AP environment.
(Out of range for the reject is shorter than the accept, you want to allow the client to connect again soon, when one comes back.)
Be aware of the other settings like "forwarding" and VLAN, that will overrule the default of the WLAN interface!
You need both: accept and reject rule. Reject only will not work (see wiki)
Klembord-1.jpg
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:08 pm

@WeWiNet

Is there any diference in setting up wireless with that extra package ? I would like to give it a try.
gigabyte, to test wifiwave2 just use "quickset" to set up a plain vanilla Home AP with password and see what range/perf you get.
If you are satisfied, start over and set it up with winbox/CLI correctly.

wifiwave 2 is a slightly different approach, but not so different from current way of doing it.
If you have used quickset for setup, look through the winbox config to see what has been changed/set in wireless. Then its trivial to add/extend config via Winbox.

Big improvement is, wifiwave2 uses latest manufacturer Wifi drivers for Wifi chip inside hap ac3/Audience.
No need to tune anything anymore as it "just works"
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:34 pm

@bpwl

That's exactly what i meant, I wanted router to disconnect client if signal gets to weak so client reconnects (hopefully) to another AP. Only I need to set it up in Access List instead of Connect List.

Do you have any other suggestions regarding my configuration ? For eg. extension channels ? Should I change it ? Can I set same SSID for all interfaces ? So 2.4 and 5 GHz have same SSID ?

Regarding VLANs, I will have several security cameras on diferent VLAN but I was only thinking about adding mobile clients to Access list. For cameras there is no need as they are stationary.

@WeWiNet

That will be weekend project then :) I will try it, why not, if it supported by the router hehe
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:32 pm

I personally would not use XXXX as extension channels (except for "station" setup) because it is undefined if it is Ceee, eCee, eeCe or eeeC.
5180/Ceee is very specific. 5180/XXXX not but here only Ceee is possible because 5180 is at the edge.
Freq 5500 and up have a higher TX power allowed. (/interface wireless info country-info croatia), but that is DFS, may be used indoor and outdoor.
The specification installation "indoor" is no problem for "croatia" because the "outdoor" frequencies are not tagged as such for the croatia list. Other countries may have this, and the "installation=any" must be used there.

Don't specify "5GHz-A" if you don't use "A" as protocol. (A= Old USA protocol). Just "5GHz-N/AC" or even "5GHz-onlyAC" if all devices support AC.

You can set the SSID just as you want , equal or different from each other. They all end up in the same L2 bridged network.
More SSID can be added as "Virtual interface" , but don't forget to add those WLAN to the bridge. So you can have a common SSID and a specific one at the same time.
VLAN per SSID is easy if it does not need to be strongly secured, just use the VLAN id different from 1 and tagged in that WLAN. (attenton for the access-list entries !!!). Wifi can transport tagged VLAN that are untagged at the client device also. The VLAN must end somewhere in the network in a VLAN interface with it's own DHCP etc). Full VLAN filtering on the bridges is a totally different story, tag/untag can be done on the bridge ports.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:15 pm

Can I use Ce for 2.4 GHz ? Do you have link or something where this channel width is explained ?

Would be a good idea to set diferent channels for router and downstairs AP ? So they don't interfere with each other.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:34 pm

In wikipedia article on WiFi channels, 2.4GHz section, there are two great charts which illustrate different channel layouts:

How 2.4 GHz channels overlap:
Image


Optimal chanel usage in Europe:
Image

and in US:
Image


The problem is that internet is full of recomendations "use 1,6,11" which very well applies to US but not so good elsewhere. So quite many APs in Europe follow the same recipe throwing away chance to have two non-overlapping 40MHz channels.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:36 pm

Ce or eC is not recommended in 2.4GHz, there is only room for 3 separate 20MHz channels in total for US: https://metis.fi/en/2018/01/2dot4-band/

Using different freq for the different AP's is maximizing the free airtime to transmit: If there are enough free channels. If not, set the APs on EXACTLY the same frequency (eg: all on 5180/Ceee and not one on 5180/Ceee and the other on 5200/eCee or even worse 5200/Ceee). If the 866Mbps interface rate is NOT needed , then using 40 MHz wide channels in 5 GHz might just be better for the signal quality. https://metis.fi/en/2018/02/5ghz-channels/ . Mikrotik does NOT use mid-channel frequencies naming as in this text, but control+extension channel naming.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:59 pm

@bpwl

Ok, I put 2.4 GHz to 20/40 MHz XX 2412 MHz, and 5GHz to 20/40/80 Ceee 5180 MHz (I tried to select another frequency but then i get "searching for frequency" and after that "detecting radar")

If I want to use 20/40 MHz for 5GHz should I use XX or Ce or eC ? (Maybe i will choose 20/40 because that is more than enough for my internet speed)

@mkx

Thank you for the charts and wiki link. Yea, in EU, CH 1,6 and 11 are almost always used.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:14 pm

Ce or eC. You have 2 sets of channels in the non-DFS zone. 36-40 (5180/Ce) and 44-48 (5220/Ce)
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:38 am

And this message: "searching for frequency" and "detecting radar" is this related to country settings ? because i get that message for every frequency except 5180
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed  [SOLVED]

Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:47 am

Related to DFS (including weather channels), but is country specific. viewtopic.php?t=183887#p917516 . N-America and Europe are similar, See also the "/interface wireless info country-info" terminal output.

DFS cannot be disabled. Avoid "weather channels" first : "Skip DFS channels = 10minCAC" in WLAN2 config.
 
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Re: 5 GHz WiFi speed

Fri Mar 11, 2022 9:18 pm

Thank you, i managed to change the channel of downstairs AP so channels don't overlaps

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