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ncrossley
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Quick Setup Question

Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:10 pm

Hey guys, looking to do the following.

Main Feed is going to location 1 which i have a 3ghz x86 routeros machine that i want to send out to 3 access points and shoot another backhaul feed off to location 2.
Right now we employ WDS i'm pretty sure will have to move away from WDS, whats the next best method.
Have all the radios etc... just curious about best config for the job.
Thanks

Using RouterOS 2.9.50 (can't take the plunge to 3.0 for a few more stable versions out)
 
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normis
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:01 am

Why do you want to move away from WDS?
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
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jordantrx
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:56 am

I beleive reliablity and more AP's. But im not sure, alot of people just say to not use WDS in a big wisp..... anywho. I would set your AP's up as AP CPE AP CPE AP, from every AP you hook up a more powerfull CPE unit, and connect it via ethernet.. and so on and so forth.....


I am interested in WDS though. Is it relaible? is there down's to using it compared to the cobination above? im curious... -Jordan
~Agricultural WISP "ZONE"~ Beware of oncoming cattle and dont hit the farmer!!! I need to ask him about using his silo for an AP first"~

*Automated Billing Installer* http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/AutomatedBilling Built by Krige ;-)
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:17 pm

Right now useing WDS with 14 users on this current AP, all seems stable, but need to push at least 50 CPE's to one AP.
Having problems with bending my head around the fact i'm set at 2gh-5mhz, only 6mbit available and seems all clients share that 6mbit.


*Edit

Don't really want to move away from WDS if i can avoid it I will, but so far from what i've tried, only option for multiple backhaul and ap feeds from one computer i need to use NAT, every time i try WDS either a loop is created or network connection fails.
Could be some foolish error on my part though.
still a newbie on the mikrotik equipment, it's basicly the last resort before I move to Canopy (WHICH I DON'T WANNA GIVE MOTOROLA MY MONEY LOL)
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:42 pm

Well Begining to notice the help forums are more for people spamming their services for paid help only, dissapointing...
 
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jordantrx
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:12 am

Well Begining to notice the help forums are more for people spamming their services for paid help only, dissapointing...
How do you like WDS? Why is a loop being created? What are some of the problems. Im interested in possibly going this way.. But if to many problems arise in it i will stay with AP>Cpe unit for Next>AP etc etc etc up to like 4 hops or more.. -Jordan
~Agricultural WISP "ZONE"~ Beware of oncoming cattle and dont hit the farmer!!! I need to ask him about using his silo for an AP first"~

*Automated Billing Installer* http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/AutomatedBilling Built by Krige ;-)
 
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erich5470
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:33 am

Well Begining to notice the help forums are more for people spamming their services for paid help only, dissapointing...

I am getting the same impression...
 
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normis
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:25 am

Well Begining to notice the help forums are more for people spamming their services for paid help only, dissapointing...
I don't see anything like that on this thread. Am I missing something?
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
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jordantrx
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:02 pm

Well Begining to notice the help forums are more for people spamming their services for paid help only, dissapointing...
I don't see anything like that on this thread. Am I missing something?
I think they mean paying for a consultant... Or other fourms are doing this... I have always had help here when i asked and people knew how to fix it soo I dont know..


Why doesent somebody that usues WDS explain there experience with it? I would love to know how it has worked for them. Thank you =Jordan
~Agricultural WISP "ZONE"~ Beware of oncoming cattle and dont hit the farmer!!! I need to ask him about using his silo for an AP first"~

*Automated Billing Installer* http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/AutomatedBilling Built by Krige ;-)
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:31 pm

Should have been more detailed, I mean in general the forums seem to about 80% result in OH you should contact this consultant for more help.
Just seems that more times then not someone is giving the VERY BASIC information but only leading you to a path that involves you contacting and paying someone for service.
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:41 pm

WDS Support seems to work quite well SO FAR. The disadvantages i'm currently having are reduced bandwidth, seems everyone has the availibility to only 6mbit(spread over all users) of tcp throughput when 20+ mbit is available to them. This may be a RF/Microwave constriction have not had any luck having that question answered.
The other problem i'm having is when the odd user misconfigures their household router, setting up a DHCP server in their home with the LAN port plugged into their LAN, causes massive network failure as the other clients on the network attempt to route through their household router and not the gateway back at home base.
Another downfall (again not sure if it's an RF/Microwave constriction) is the fact that I have one or two clients that don't have a great signal, and seem to be drawing on the network massive amounts, limiting the connection speed of all my other users significantly.
I am a noob to this Mikrotik equipment. I like the broadness of the options it has. The lack of easy setup is sometimes frustrating but I am willing to work through it.
Help on the forums is sometimes hard to get, and everyone wants to dip into my pocket to give me help. There are some users who are great help on the other hand, and for that I am greatfull.
Excuse the spelling mistakes, it's early.


***EDIT***
16 WDS Clients on the AP as of right now.
Last edited by ncrossley on Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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erich5470
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:41 pm

Well Begining to notice the help forums are more for people spamming their services for paid help only, dissapointing...
I don't see anything like that on this thread. Am I missing something?
This post may need to be moved to a Thread called Support B's Gripes and Complaints.
Dont get me wrong.. I'm not bashing on Mikrotik. I think Mikrotik is the best equipmment out there when it comes to versatility and reliability. But, I am getting a little frustrated when it comes to support along the lines of procedures and work instructions. And, I do need to vent...

I am seeing alot of the same thing.. minimal information. I know I have posted and re-posted the same questions over and over deleting one post, just to copy and paste the same post in order to keep the post active. I have seen 168 views and only one person responded????
I just bought $4k worth of Mikrotik boards and Ubiquiti boards two weeks ago. to setup a WISP. One of my primary decisions on buying was that they were probably one of the only ones willing to give any type of support. THen I find out that the 15 days of support is from the time of purchase, (took 6 days to ship the equipment) Then I call the vendor about my issue, (after configuring the boards) and they dont give any type of support..you have to contact Mikrotik for your 15 days of support. So, I get on Mikrotik website, click support, and it says they will give support via email (email support is snail mail support) then links me to this forum. Now, my 15 days are pretty much gone.
The guys that currently own their own WISP's that are helping me can only help me so much... because they have their clientel to tend to also, They have helped me enough to get the configuration process figured out.

And so far, the only admin or tech I have gotten response from was you about how large of capacity of flash cards was supported on mikrotik boards.
If it wouldnt have been for my friends showing me how to configure the boards I just bought, I would have been dead ntz in the water. probably trying to configure the boards with a console cable like you do with cisco products. No instructions (or, basic pamphlets came with the product) of how to start configuring the boards.
The boards should come with atleast a pamphlet that says you need such and such items(null modem adapter, db9 serial cable, and rj45 cable) first step hook this into that set your network connection to this, open telnet or hyperterminal and do that..until you are able to get into the router via Winbox. Then Winbox needs some type of sample procedures to say " do this to create a point to point" wesuggest you do this procedure to create a hotspot.. we suggest you do this to create a backhaul, and so on.... Rather than just fumbling thru everything.
I know Mikrotik is trying to use Wikipedia for this, but all I see is code, and see nothing for Winbox. If it werent for my Visual BASIC programming knowledge that I learned in the early 90's, I wouldnt be able to somewhat try converting it over to click this in Winbox and set this in Winbox.

I sorta feel like one of those cartoon characters who is trying to get downstairs, trips and falls; rolling head over heels and hits the ground floor, gets up and is proud of geting to the bottom so quickly.

Again, this is not meant to bash Mikrotik...

Respectfully,
Eric W. H.
Last edited by erich5470 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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mipland
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:00 pm

I think here, here and here you can find anything you want.
Things like WDS, frequency, radio propagation, etc... is not in the "Mikrotik domain", but in the "general wireless domain", and you can find tons of info regarding that on Internet.
There's no Mikrotik's page to help you on what is a netmask,IP or gateway, but it's supposed that if you have bought this devices, you know how to manage a network. Otherwise, IMHO, stay away from networking.
And, if you don't know how to do something and you have no time to "waste" on it, there's a general rule to follow: "ask to a friend, ask online, or...pay someone to learn from". Sad, but....the "real world".

Regards, Mirco

P.S.
This is only my 2 cents, i don't want to start a flame. :wink:
Bye

IZ3HAD, Mirco
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:03 pm

I hear ya man, just forked out $40k on gear. And am not very happy yet. The option was Mikrotik or Motorola, I said hey i'll give the underdog a go!
 
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erich5470
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:20 pm

I think here, here and here you can find anything you want.
Things like WDS, frequency, radio propagation, etc... is not in the "Mikrotik domain", but in the "general wireless domain", and you can find tons of info regarding that on Internet.
There's no Mikrotik's page to help you on what is a netmask,IP or gateway, but it's supposed that if you have bought this devices, you know how to manage a network. Otherwise, IMHO, stay away from networking.
And, if you don't know how to do something and you have no time to "waste" on it, there's a general rule to follow: "ask to a friend, ask online, or...pay someone to learn from". Sad, but....the "real world".

Regards, Mirco

P.S.
This is only my 2 cents, i don't want to start a flame. :wink:


Dont get me wrong.. I'm familiar with networking... I'm used to Cisco physical (wired) routers. The problem comes into play with the wireless....

You say ask online.... "Thats why Im on this forum"
You say ask a friend... " I already covered that"
But, from the looks of your comment.. you are one of those very people that I am talking about.
Instead of giving a Smart... comment, try to give some informative insight... (ie. give up some of that supposed "knowledge" you poseess.).. I dont think my WISP is going to threaten your business any..
Like I said before... Im not trying to bash Mikrotik... I not trying to be a jerk... But, I didnt realize that I walked into the "Good Ole Boys Club.." and needed to have a "gold badge" rather than a paper badge that says " Hi .. My name is Eric"

But, anyway.. I think your right.. not to start a flame... Im gonna post this in a totally different post.. as not to ruin this persons post.
Respectfully, Eric
Last edited by erich5470 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:27 pm

I think here, here and here you can find anything you want.
Things like WDS, frequency, radio propagation, etc... is not in the "Mikrotik domain", but in the "general wireless domain", and you can find tons of info regarding that on Internet.
There's no Mikrotik's page to help you on what is a netmask,IP or gateway, but it's supposed that if you have bought this devices, you know how to manage a network. Otherwise, IMHO, stay away from networking.
And, if you don't know how to do something and you have no time to "waste" on it, there's a general rule to follow: "ask to a friend, ask online, or...pay someone to learn from". Sad, but....the "real world".

Regards, Mirco

P.S.
This is only my 2 cents, i don't want to start a flame. :wink:


Dont get me wrong.. I'm familiar with networking... I'm used to Cisco physical (wired) routers. The problem comes into play with the wireless....

But, from the looks of your comment.. you are one of those very people that I am talking about.

Well then, lets make something happen. We can sit here and complain all we want about there being no help, lets start giving some from what we have learned thus far. Unfortunatly my current limitation is the RF(Wireless) end as well.

My experiance with WDS is limited but I am using it in the real world. Contact me for more info.
 
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mipland
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:44 pm

But, from the looks of your comment.. you are one of those very people that I am talking about.
:D
Sorry, i'm not a "consultant" (you can look for all my post here, there's no "contact me to pay for something"). I'm only a radioHAM with a lot of passion for wireless, and i work for a local company as an IT technician (NO wireless yet, only "classical" networking).
My comment was only a "realization" of the actual IT world. I know something on wireless becouse i "waste" (uncorrect term... :wink: ) a lot of my personal time to learn, but i know that not all people can do that. Someone want to "click'n'go", someone has no time to learn, and so on...

Anyway, some help for "ncrossley": WDS cannot guarantee you an highly modular management, and it "stole" more bandwidth than classic "AP-station" structure (higly payload compared to AP-station).
The best option, IMHO, for a Wisp, is an AP-station structure (as jordantrx suggest you) with PPPoE protocol for client management.
For a fast, easy and cost effective PPPoE management you can use the "user manager" on ROS. In future, if you have (it's inevitable) a lot of static route to manage on your network, you can use a dynamic protocol as OSPF to manage them.
Last edited by mipland on Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bye

IZ3HAD, Mirco
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:48 pm

Thank you mipland.
 
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mipland
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:57 pm

I wrote some "visual" (winbox) guide to do that, but it's in italian... :(
Bye

IZ3HAD, Mirco
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:00 pm

I wrote some "visual" (winbox) guide to do that, but it's in italian... :(
Could I maybe get a copy of that?
May be able to get it somewhat translated lol.
 
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mipland
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:09 pm

This is a minimal but effective client/server guide in English from Mikrotik's wiki: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/User_Manager/PPP_Example

This is ONLY for the client side (in italian): http://www.mipland.net/ext_rep_file/DOC ... uterOS.ppt
Bye

IZ3HAD, Mirco
 
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erich5470
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:32 pm

This is a minimal but effective client/server guide in English from Mikrotik's wiki: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/User_Manager/PPP_Example

This is ONLY for the client side (in italian): http://www.mipland.net/ext_rep_file/DOC ... uterOS.ppt

"Ough"... That's totally awsome!
See, I can translate this with Googles Online Language Translator.
See thats what Im talking about..... That was a little more than I expected with the pics and all.. but that just goes to set a a trend..... you see, when Mikrotik gives out free licenses for Wikipedia excamples.. this is what they need to give a free license for.

As we say in the Army... "HOOAH!!"
 
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mipland
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:39 pm

I can translate it in english, but it's focused to connect to our national wifi backbone, so i think i have to generate new pics, and i have no time to do that now, sorry. :(
Bye

IZ3HAD, Mirco
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:57 pm

Thanks anyhow man, if you do have time some time would appreciate it.
 
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erich5470
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:05 pm

Thanks anyhow man, if you do have time some time would appreciate it.

No problem..
I have time.. I have lots of it... considering I am unemployed and trying to start this business to create some kind of an income for myself off this WISP.
I will get right on it for ya.

Respectfully,
Eric W. H.
 
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erich5470
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:30 pm

Thanks anyhow man, if you do have time some time would appreciate it.

No problem..
I have time.. I have lots of it... considering I am unemployed and trying to start this business to create some kind of an income for myself off this WISP.
I will get right on it for ya.

Respectfully,
Eric W. H.
Getting an error from the forum saying "file is too large"... you got an email I can send it to?
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:57 pm

Thanks anyhow man, if you do have time some time would appreciate it.

No problem..
I have time.. I have lots of it... considering I am unemployed and trying to start this business to create some kind of an income for myself off this WISP.
I will get right on it for ya.

Respectfully,
Eric W. H.
Getting an error from the forum saying "file is too large"... you got an email I can send it to?
try admin@chaoshosting.net
 
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erich5470
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:27 pm

Just wondering if you received the email?

because, I got the following message from my mail server.

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.
Delivery to the following recipients has been delayed.

<admin@chaoshosting.net>

The reason for the problem:
4.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Soft Error looking up chaoshosting.net (MX) while asking recursive_nameserver1.parent. Error was: unable to reach nameserver on any valid IP'
 
ncrossley
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Re: Quick Setup Question

Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:44 pm

Just wondering if you received the email?

because, I got the following message from my mail server.

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.
Delivery to the following recipients has been delayed.

<admin@chaoshosting.net>

The reason for the problem:
4.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Soft Error looking up chaoshosting.net (MX) while asking recursive_nameserver1.parent. Error was: unable to reach nameserver on any valid IP'
Give it another try, just moved that domain yesterday may not have come up on your dns servers yet.

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