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gdistasi
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Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Mon May 05, 2008 2:19 pm

Hi everyone,
we are trying to design a wireless network (to be used as a wisp), and this network will include a point-to-point link of about 35 km, to get the access to the internet.

The link should be capable to sustain a rate of about 20Mbit in download (more is better of course), and 5/10 Mbit upload, in the same time.

Can you suggest me a configuration (which board, which antennas, ecc.) to obtain such a link?
If I understood this correctly, nstreme2 could be of hand, and maybe a couple of pc (pcs would be fine, but they are more difficult to deploy outdoor, aren't they?)

If you are curious, the link is from 40° 23 18' 31'' N 15° 16' 09' 59' E to 40° 36 30' 41'' N 14° 59' 03" 04"' E.

In fact, we're looking for an engineer to make the design of the net (we are a public administratione and prefer that the engineer does not live too far from Salerno or Naples).

Thanks,
Gianni
 
danletkeman
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Tue May 06, 2008 2:55 am

First things first you need to find a path between these two locations. Are you able to put a repeater on the hill in between these two sites?

You can easily make a link with that much bandwidth with Mikrotik equipment. You don't need to use PC's
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gdistasi
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Tue May 06, 2008 2:23 pm

First things first you need to find a path between these two locations. Are you able to put a repeater on the hill in between these two sites?
Mmm... I don't think so... and I'd like not to have any repeaters (because it's simpler to deploy and mantain). Maybe I can find a different link that doesn't have a hill in between.

That graph is for my real location? Nice. I've tried to use radio mobile to generate a similar map withouth success. Which datas have you used (terratec, srtm, ... )? I tried with srsm and that part of the globe wasn't found.

You can easily make a link with that much bandwidth with Mikrotik equipment. You don't need to use PC's

But how about using pcs to have a better scalability?
Last edited by gdistasi on Tue May 06, 2008 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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normis
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Tue May 06, 2008 2:42 pm

but with routerboards you will have better support and compatibility :)
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gdistasi
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Tue May 06, 2008 4:09 pm

but with routerboards you will have better support and compatibility :)
In terms of what?
Aren't pc perfectly supported by RouterOs?

However we're going to use Mikrotik board for almost all the net (about 40000€ of hardware)... the pcs would be used just for the longgg link.
Last edited by gdistasi on Tue May 06, 2008 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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normis
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Tue May 06, 2008 4:18 pm

I mean mikrotik techsupport and driver support
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oveda
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Tue May 06, 2008 7:36 pm

Ciao Gianni, 35 km point to point with 20-30 Mbps trhoughput is possible with mikrotik Routerboard's. :D
Yopu don't need use Pc's and you don't need to spend 40000 euro :lol: maybe 4000 euro :o
You must see if there is perfect Line Of Sight from Point To Point. 8)
How frequency do you want use ? 2.4 ghz ? 5 Ghz ? :shock:
how many routerboards do you want to use ? :shock:
I realized (in sicily) a 35 km point to point link 2.5 Ghz, with two routerboards RB133, two panel antenna 19 db, two miniPCI R52H : real trhoughput was 9 Mbit, very stable, excellent for Internet connection or continuos traffic like audio video streaming.
If do you want more more bandwith you must use 29 db antennas, RB333 or RB600, and you can use more points of raising.
For example I realized point to point 50 km with 24 Mbit real trhoughput: first point to point 15 km (two Rb333+panel 23db+R52), second point to point 22 km(two Wrap2 + SR5 + grid28 db), third point to point 12 Km (Two RB333 + R52 + panel 22db). great work and I have fixed 24 Mbit of traffic ever from 24 hour every day. :lol:

Ciao Gianni facci sapere !!!
oveda
 
gdistasi
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Tue May 06, 2008 10:03 pm

Ciao Gianni, 35 km point to point with 20-30 Mbps trhoughput is possible with mikrotik Routerboard's. :D
Yopu don't need use Pc's and you don't need to spend 40000 euro :lol: maybe 4000 euro :o
You must see if there is perfect Line Of Sight from Point To Point. 8)
How frequency do you want use ? 2.4 ghz ? 5 Ghz ? :shock:
how many routerboards do you want to use ? :shock:
I realized (in sicily) a 35 km point to point link 2.5 Ghz, with two routerboards RB133, two panel antenna 19 db, two miniPCI R52H : real trhoughput was 9 Mbit, very stable, excellent for Internet connection or continuos traffic like audio video streaming.
If do you want more more bandwith you must use 29 db antennas, RB333 or RB600, and you can use more points of raising.
For example I realized point to point 50 km with 24 Mbit real trhoughput: first point to point 15 km (two Rb333+panel 23db+R52), second point to point 22 km(two Wrap2 + SR5 + grid28 db), third point to point 12 Km (Two RB333 + R52 + panel 22db). great work and I have fixed 24 Mbit of traffic ever from 24 hour every day. :lol:

Ciao Gianni facci sapere !!!
oveda
20-30Mbfs full duplex? I don't know why, but I... feel... that two pcs would be more appropriate. My doubts are about the difficulties of deployng the outdoor...

I think Mikrotik would also help us, as we are going to spend a lot of money of their equipment (for the other links). Am i wrong? :D

40.000€ is for the whole net (a network to be used as a wisp in a little village in province of Salerno).

You realized a point to point link at 2.5Ghz and the real throughput was 9Mbit... I need 20Mbit, full-duplex.

What is your experience in wireless networks based on Mikrotik products? We are looking for a good designer to help us for the project of the wisp we are going to set up.

Grazie!
 
gdistasi
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Tue May 06, 2008 10:05 pm

I realized (in sicily) a 35 km point to point link 2.5 Ghz, with two routerboards RB133, two panel antenna 19 db, two miniPCI R52H : real trhoughput was 9 Mbit, very stable, excellent for Internet connection or continuos traffic like audio video streaming.

Ciao Gianni facci sapere !!!
oveda
9 Mbit woudn't be enough in my case...
 
0ldman
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Wed May 07, 2008 6:59 am

yea, he was using a 133 tho. A 333 or 600 should handle that just fine. I got 20+ mbps from two RB411 in turbo just using the boards bandwidth test. I was CPU limited. If memory serves, I got 12 down and 19 up in btest at the same time. You will probably have too much signal loss over that distance to go turbo, but Nstreme 2 on a 333 or 600 will take care of that quite nicely and use less power, create less heat, etc, than a PC.
 
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oveda
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Wed May 07, 2008 9:39 am

20-30Mbfs full duplex? I don't know why, but I... feel... that two pcs would be more appropriate. My doubts are about the difficulties of deployng the outdoor...

I think Mikrotik would also help us, as we are going to spend a lot of money of their equipment (for the other links). Am i wrong? :D

40.000€ is for the whole net (a network to be used as a wisp in a little village in province of Salerno).

You realized a point to point link at 2.5Ghz and the real throughput was 9Mbit... I need 20Mbit, full-duplex.
Yeees, I mean link 35 km point to point RB133 + R52h + panel 19db + 9 Mbit trhoughput + very stable link with total cost less 200 euro !!! :o (scusa se è poco !!!)
I know that you need 20 Mbit Tx/Rx. You can use Pc's with RouterOS and Mikrotik device's for 35 Km and with this configuration the trhoughput is very amazing, I think more than 20 Mbit Tx/Rx.
But I also think that you could get 20 Mbit full duplex on 35 km with Routerboads RB333-RB600, appropriate antennas and appropriate high tower.They are very affidable devices which I use from years (rb333) with continuos traffic 24h.
however you must also consider the appropriate power tx / frequency you can use in Italy.
mmmh, I want to try this link for experiment. In a future I'll post results.
What is your experience in wireless networks based on Mikrotik products? We are looking for a good designer to help us for the project of the wisp we are going to set up.
Grazie!
I'm Mikrotik certified but I don't work for P.A./private. You can ask here http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html - Italy section - Chiamali, loro potranno toglierti ogni dubbio e consigliarti al meglio.

ciao - facci sapere.

oveda.
 
gdistasi
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Wed May 07, 2008 1:09 pm

yea, he was using a 133 tho. A 333 or 600 should handle that just fine. I got 20+ mbps from two RB411 in turbo just using the boards bandwidth test. I was CPU limited. If memory serves, I got 12 down and 19 up in btest at the same time. You will probably have too much signal loss over that distance to go turbo, but Nstreme 2 on a 333 or 600 will take care of that quite nicely and use less power, create less heat, etc, than a PC.
Yes, I was oriented to nstreme 2...

I have a doubt: at the distance of 35km, is the cpu that limits the bandwidth or is the distance (the signal is too weak)? Do you have experiences in that regard?
 
Tanker
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Re: Link of 35 km (Italy, SA)

Sun May 11, 2008 5:01 pm

Most of our links are +30Km....

in fact .... most are +40Km PtMP...

Out PtP links typically exceed 60Km...

We do not use any PC's

Hope this makes you a bit more comfortable.

T

oops: - forgot to say.. All the links operate in the 5GHz band

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