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fbaffoni
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WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:47 pm

Hi, people.

I have to make a new wireless wi-fi network in a city, this network should guarantee roaming for the clients. So, my idea is to use one AP and WDS distributing the signal all over the city. I know that mikrotik support this implementation of the 802.11 standar. But is Mikrotik capable to support 802.11r or 802.11f for mobile network?

If not, how could be the alternative metod to do this deployment?

Are the mikrotik people thinking about to add this standard on RouterOS future versions?

Thank you. I will wait for an answer.
 
sarpkaya
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:19 am

I thought that problem nowadays, if you make ssid, mac addresses and channels same, client won't be able to understand that devices are different. So they'll connect whatever has high signal
 
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fbaffoni
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:51 am

I don´t think that you say work. Will be colisions at layer 2 level, and that will be a problem.

I know that 802.11r is the solution, but i don´t know if mikrotik support that.
 
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normis
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:01 am

what sarpkaya says is true. that's what most hotels do, just make the same SSID. of course there will be a reconnection, I guess Uldis can explain more (?)
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
uldis
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:15 am

we don't support 802.11r, but you can use RSTP in your WDS mesh networking where you have all the AP with the same SSID.
 
cuccio
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:58 am

when client change the AP, lost any connection for some seconds. This is real problem for Voip, and for this reason 802.11r exist.

BR
C.
 
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normis
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:59 am

when client change the AP, lost any connection for some seconds. This is real problem for Voip, and for this reason 802.11r exist.

BR
C.
I have talked to people who use Wifi Voip phones and their call doesn't interrupt if the system is properly configured.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
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fbaffoni
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:40 pm

Normis

What do you mean with properly configured?

1)using RSTP?
2) using Layer2-Mesh?
3) using WDS-SLAVE?
4) Usint station-wds?

What do you think that "the properly configured" would be?

Thank you, i will wait for your answer
 
uldis
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:06 pm

Here is documentations for Layer2 Mesh:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Layer-2_r ... h_networks

You can start configuring WDS with RSTP. If you are more advanced you can configure also Layer 2 Mesh.
Usually you loose only few frames when you connect to other AP, and you will not notice that on the VOIP connection.
 
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fbaffoni
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:25 pm

Uldis

You say that i will loose some frames that will not affect the VoIP communications ustin RSTP or using L2-Mesh?

Thank you for your response
 
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:29 pm

This could effect both of them, usually one or two frames could be lost, so you would not notice that. You can ask on the forum for client who are using such systems on mesh networks.
 
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fbaffoni
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:46 pm

Ok Uldis, thank you, i will test it.

Thank for your time men.
 
sarpkaya
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:03 pm

what sarpkaya says is true. that's what most hotels do, just make the same SSID. of course there will be a reconnection, I guess Uldis can explain more (?)
Hotels are doing only ssid same. But my thought is different if ssids are same but mac addresses are different, there should be a connection problem when you're mobile(in car, in bus, in bike etc...) and connecting wi-fi that will make problem because that connection will be lost in 1 minute and try to search for 10 sc so user will have %80 connectivity. But If mac address will be same, that will make no problem and there is no connection lost.
 
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fbaffoni
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:16 pm

Sparkaya

I understund your point, but 2 AP, connected in the same LAN, with the same MAC address, will cause colissions at layer 2 level. It´s the same thing if you configure 2 PC with the same IP Address. That is the problem becouse you can't use the same MAC address for the AP.
 
sarpkaya
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:28 am

Sparkaya

I understund your point, but 2 AP, connected in the same LAN, with the same MAC address, will cause colissions at layer 2 level. It´s the same thing if you configure 2 PC with the same IP Address. That is the problem becouse you can't use the same MAC address for the AP.
Mmm, that's strange.
If you do communication with another device, I mean do your backhaul with another device, so mac addresses will be different in lan side. It will show different mac address(backhaul's mac address)

If you have better solution tell us, we'll learn.
 
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fbaffoni
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:49 am

Yes, through that way will work, becouse the Wlan Mac, will be masquered with the LAN Mac.

But, I will not use the lan side, becouse I needing a complete wireless solution, just one core router will be connected through the lan.

This is the idea

Internet(ethx)-----AP1(core router) - - - - (wireless) - - - - AP2(WDS Bridged) - - - Clients
................................................... - - - - (wireless) - - - - AP3(WDS bridged) - - - Clients

Using WDS the AP2 and AP3 will be a mirror of the AP1, so all the network will be bridged, so all MAC address will be in the network, including the AP2 and AP3 wireless MAC address.

That is why i can´t do that... :S

I will test with RSTP and L2-Mesh, and I will post my results.

Thank you for your time buddy, I really appreciate.
 
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:00 pm

I used layer2 mesh plus WDS with ROS,it works and the ping will be lost 2~15 pakcets when switch over from one AP to another AP,after I changed the hwmp-prep-lifetime to 1s.And I think if there are many APs inside the mesh domain,the mesh signaling traffic will be high heavy.
And I also tested the mobility effect with Cisco 802.11r ready AP,none ping packet is lost.
 
cuccio
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:08 pm

Yes, confirm, 802.11r dont loose packets.

Bye
C.
 
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:58 pm

bump!

5 years later : same question. Is, now, 802.11r supported ? (here 951g-2hnd)

XaT
 
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:26 pm

bump
 
syadnom
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:30 am

still a valid questions.

Also, 'properly configured' and requiring WDS and a lot of tweaking is not 'properly configured', it's 'tweaked'.
802.11r support is a real need for VoIP phones and building out a tweaked wifi network when the effort and expense should have been spent on ideal AP placement, count, and power levels. If the site is properly surveyed and built, 802.11r is the absolute obvious and most efficient and least maintenance solution. Cisco, Aruba, Meraki, others already support this and there are many devices on the market.

My customers are moving to VoIP rapidly, it's my fastest growing product, and right now I'm pairing up DECT handsets because of the lack of 802.11r in mikrotik and ubiquiti gear. DECT is fine, but SIP VoIP handsets would be a welcome improvement.
 
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:19 am

Yeah, we're still waiting for this.. :)
 
efaden
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:59 pm

Would be nice.
 
sup5
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:32 pm

If you really need seamless Wifi Roaming you need to choose another vendor: Meru Networks.
They use the "single channel architecture", which makes all access points appear as a single one to WiFi clients.
Roaming will happen in lesser than 50ms.
 
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:07 pm

guys on mikrotik can be "seamless roaming", if properly set up! We have implemented and are implementing many projects where it is necessary to cover large areas with a high density, and it is essential that the transition to the connection is not torn (eg VOIP), so that's all you can do and it works! If you want to attach a video.

Just tomorrow we go to the object in which will be install 25 AP in a large warehouse for data collection terminals ;)

sorry for my English
 
Lupin
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:32 pm

+1 for 802.11r support
 
Hammer
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:00 pm

guys on mikrotik can be "seamless roaming", if properly set up!
and how to set up properly?
 
jarda
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:32 pm

It's impossible wit mikrotik. Very close solution is capsman but even it is almost seamless you can see the delay in traffic or even some drop can occur when roaming. But normally it is acceptable.
 
barkas
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AW: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:03 pm

Devices have a tendency to hang on to weak signals so that doesn't work too well usually.

802.11r please.
 
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:23 pm

there is no magic solution to roaming problems

the best solution is to make a very good design, very good pre implementation site survey, very good post implementation site survey and tunning.

with that the time taken for roaming using wpa2-psk and aes is inferior to a second, specially when clients driver of wifi chipset collaborates

you have to take in mind roaming its very client dependent specially when you dont have control of your clients (smartphones of many brands and version of OS, tablets, laptops with many and different wifi chipset vendors and different drivers versions).

mikrotik + good implementation + good clients = spectacular wifi
 
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soonwai
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Re: WI-FI ROAMING 802.11r QUESTION

Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:57 am

802.11r/k/v imlementation would be good. There are already tens of millions of client devices which supports it. It's not seamless but will be better than what we have now.

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