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normis
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802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 10:39 am

I would be great if the first people to test the new 802.11n support in RouterOS v4 beta 3 would post their experiences here in this thread.

Anyone who will post some 802.11n wiki tutorial with images and setup configurations that work with good speeds, will get a Level6 license from me
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angboontiong
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 10:41 am

This mean the 11n still have no yet fully test?
If then, it's take risk to implement it into the live network...
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 10:48 am

of course it's tested, but this is still BETA I'd like to hear success stories from users.
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 12:27 pm

it would be interesting to hear, are there any tests for backhaul links 5+ km range in 802.11n mode and what speeds are(could be acheived) i.e. with 2 dish antenas on both sides.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 1:11 pm

Hope can heard the feedback very soon.... :)
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 4:12 pm

I wouldnt exactly call this a success story,but maybe this ought to answer alot of people's questions with regards to the SR71A made by Ubiquiti and RouterOS.This morning i upgraded my two RB433AH routerboards to the lates version 4 beta version as well as upgraded the BIOS,clicked "update license key" and pronto,after a quick reboot Mikrotik detected the two cards.Enabled them and got them wirelessly associated to each other.Although i only got 35mbps through them on a throughput test,i didnt exactly spend much more time trying to fine tune it as i ran out of time.But both boards were simply sitting next to eachother on the workbench and noise levels were quite high which affected my CCQ,which in turn affects the total throughput.Perhaps when i get some time i'll do an outdoor link and post test results.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 4:44 pm

You used two antennas on each card?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 5:48 pm

hello

yes i used two antennas on each card,i did an outdoor test over a couple hundred meters using a dual polarized antenna with RB433AH's either side using the SR71A's.I also had two pc's connected to each board on both ends and used the mikrotik bandwidth test to do the tests through the boards for accurate results.I Suspect i might have been able to get faster speeds as the 433AH's only have 10/100 ethernet ports as compared to the RB600A's with Gigabit.Despite that i managed to consistently get 95.7Mbps without any drops.In my opinion i think the new R52N would perform a bit better though
 
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omega-00
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Re: 802.11n

Mon May 25, 2009 7:27 pm

I've been doing some reading up on 802.11n now that it's supported and testing with 2 x TP-Link 802.11n cards I'd purchased a while back.
I've also posted some info on the tests I've been doing here: http://www.air-stream.org.au/blog/omega ... -and-cards
---
Mikrotik Controllable Options

HT Extention Channel - none, above control, below control
User selects a control (primary) channel (frequency) and sets if the bundled(bonded?) channel is above or below the selected channel.

HT AMPDU Priorities
AMPDU allows bursting 802.11 frames up to 64KB and is performed in the hardware. Not quite sure what these settings do yet :-)

HT Guard Interval - any, long
Short GI is 400 nanoseconds vs. the traditional GI of 800 nanoseconds. Short GI reduces the symbol time from 4 microseconds to 3.6 microseconds to improve throughput by 10%.

HT MCS - Currently unchangable
MCS selects, based on RF channel conditions, the best combination of 8 data rates, bonded channels, multiple spatial streams, different guard intervals and modulation types (noting that 802.11 b/g adapts to channel conditions by selecting the highest of 12 possible rates from 1 to 54 Mbps)

Antenna Selection - Not sure if this should be enabled for use with 802.11n Given the Tx/Rx Chain settings?

HT TX/RX Settings - I'm still not entirely sure how the Tx and Rx chain pairing works, but I know that the card I have has 2 antenna sockets although I see only a small increase between having 1 or more selected.

----------------------
Improvements we might be seeing available in Router OS:
Preamble Mode: long, short, both, greenfield (new)
Greenfield preamble cannot be interpreted by legacy stations. It is shorter than the mixed mode or legacy mode preamble and improves efficiency of the 802.11n networks with no legacy devices.
----------------------

Would any mikrotik reps care to correct me here or add any further comments?

Pics of my testing
Image
 
titius
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 26, 2009 9:11 am

well these results are bad. 50 Mbps? no good for N
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 26, 2009 10:26 am

Okay...

After a day or so of messing about I've gotten the following results...(thanks to omega-00 for the excellent information)

[w/ conn. track]
TCP: 60.6MBps (peak) 60.1MBps (average) Very stable (w/ conn. track).
UDP: 179.8MBps (peak) Very unstable.
Ping Times - 1ms/2ms/22ms (min,avg,max)

[wo/ conn. track]
TCP: 64.5MBps (peak) 63.2MBps (average) Very stable (wo/ conn. track).
UDP: 196.7MBps (peak) approx. 165MBps (average) Stable.
CPU Usage approx 30-35% on Master Draft-N unit (bridge unit).
Ping Times - 1ms/1ms/8ms (min,avg,max)


Using 2x RB600A boards and TP-Link Draft-N cards.
Using 2x RB600A boards to generate traffic.
Very noisy environment. Scanning detects 5x APs in the building. One AP running 100mW about 10 inches from the one test board. Turning all this off makes no difference.

Channel: 2412 (other frequencies perform more poorly)
AMPDU: All selected on both units (definite bandwidth improvement)
HT Extension Channel: Above Control (definite bandwidth improvement)
HT TX/RX Chains: All selected on both units (definite bandwidth improvement).

These three changes upped the UDP bandwidth from 95MBps peak to 179.8MBps peak on UDP and from about 44MBps to 60MBps on TCP (stable). Disabling connection tracking boosts the TCP average by about 3MBps and makes UDP more stable with the peak improving by about 20MBps.

Tried various other settings, but none made a difference (except to possibly worsen it)

Will keep fiddling.

Edits in RED! + Images

WispZA
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Last edited by WispZA on Tue May 26, 2009 3:39 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 
jsuter
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 26, 2009 1:23 pm

A> does nstream (single and/or dual) work with the 11n adapters yet?

B> Does the MIMO work in b/g mode (support 2x2? 3x3?)?

C> Can you control the channel usage (ie - using it on sectored towers, I'd rather avoid as much crosstalk as possible)

D> 5/10 mhz rates? Turbo-a/g compatibility? Is there a such creature as HT5 and HT10?

E> Can I use a PCI Express type card (ie - in a x86 motherboard's PCI-Ex 1x slot?) with MT?

F> My logic on MIMO applications is the antennas should be in the same polarity (idea being that you're more likely to get a narrow obstruction [tree limb, light pole, whatever] than a cleanly spun signal). Any input on this?

I'm hoping to test b/g or g-only MIMO on customers that have issues with low data rates due to tree multipath.
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 26, 2009 1:29 pm

Anyone who will post some 802.11n wiki tutorial with images and setup configurations that work with good speeds, will get a Level6 license from me ;)
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angboontiong
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 26, 2009 1:52 pm

can post the speed test with the ping times as well?
 
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omega-00
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 26, 2009 6:47 pm

Anyone who will post some 802.11n wiki tutorial with images and setup configurations that work with good speeds, will get a Level6 license from me ;)
Stage 1 of a comprehensive guide to 802.11n on RouterOS completed.

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/802.11n_Setup_Guide

Seeing as its 3:30am here, I think its time for bed and more testing tomorrow :-)
 
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Re: 802.11n

Tue May 26, 2009 8:46 pm

does 802.11n works on the 5ghz band
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 8:40 am

does 802.11n works on the 5ghz band
yes, sure. read the specs of the cards:
http://routerboard.com/pdf/R52n.pdf
http://routerboard.com/pdf/R2n.pdf
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 8:43 am

Anyone who will post some 802.11n wiki tutorial with images and setup configurations that work with good speeds, will get a Level6 license from me ;)
Stage 1 of a comprehensive guide to 802.11n on RouterOS completed.

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/802.11n_Setup_Guide

Seeing as its 3:30am here, I think its time for bed and more testing tomorrow :-)
I moved your supported card list to the usual page:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Supported ... I_Adapters
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omega-00
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 12:24 pm

Cool, didn't think of that. Thanks :-)
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 12:26 pm

Uldis also updated some missing info in your tutorial, more specifically the Chains. I see that you used an old generation card with three chains, new ones use only two to get the same performance. Chains - Antennas.
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omega-00
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 1:11 pm

All good, I'm currently waiting for my local supplier to get in the mikrotik cards so I can test more, glad to see that the information I've collected so far is correct and useful :-)

Are you guys collecting supout.rif's for devices running with 802.11n? If not currently, do you want any? Or only if we see any problems.

Either way I've noticed a couple of issues:

The signal strength reporting for the HT speed rates fluctuates wildly in winbox, this may be a problem with my setup but as noted I'll check further when I get my R52N's
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 1:32 pm

hello

yes i used two antennas on each card,i did an outdoor test over a couple hundred meters using a dual polarized antenna with RB433AH's either side using the SR71A's.I also had two pc's connected to each board on both ends and used the mikrotik bandwidth test to do the tests through the boards for accurate results.I Suspect i might have been able to get faster speeds as the 433AH's only have 10/100 ethernet ports as compared to the RB600A's with Gigabit.Despite that i managed to consistently get 95.7Mbps without any drops.In my opinion i think the new R52N would perform a bit better though
Tyronzn
95.7Mbps UDP ? TCP ? packet size ?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 2:17 pm

the wlan dont detected with TP Link TL-WN851N
x86 with Mikrotik v4.

anyone can help?
 
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normis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 2:20 pm

did you update license as per instructions ?
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uldis
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 3:00 pm

The signal reading are combined ones. In future we will improve the signal readings (maybe by adding signal for each chain). If you want to align the antennas, then you can do that by aligning each individual chain.
 
Stanislav Hrncir
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 5:18 pm

... and what about users with RB 600, default os V3 and "upgradable to: V3.x" ?
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 11:10 pm

Does each chain (or antenna port) using .11n use a seperate 20Mhz channel or do they all share the same 20Mhz and transmit at the same time and recieve at the same time? I've not found any good documentation to explain that.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 11:22 pm

that's the funny thing...you need another RB600 or another license :lol:
 
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kapulan
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Re: 802.11n

Wed May 27, 2009 11:24 pm

The "n"card support nstream & 40mhz channel separation?
 
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test from Bulgaria 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 12:08 am

802.11n tested on RB433AH and R52n
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niksoon
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802.11n tested in office on RTS-Computers/Bulgaria

Thu May 28, 2009 12:14 am

802.11n tested on RB433AH and R52n

in office on RTS-Computers/Bulgaria
from Nicky Krastev and Vladimir
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niksoon
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Bulgarian 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 12:31 am

In very soon will testing new 802.11n on distance of 20 kilometers and
will provide demo access .
 
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omega-00
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 8:06 am

Got another test from mine as well, first one had some spare antennas of different gain db, now changed to all the same.

Updated the wiki guide to include this image.

Image
Last edited by omega-00 on Thu May 28, 2009 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
magnavox
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 8:43 am

Great!

Can you post more details on your hardware configuration?
Antenna, distances, signal strengt..
Best Regards...
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 8:48 am

Got another test from mine as well, first one had some spare antennas of different signal strengths, now changed to all the same.

Updated the wiki guide to include this image.

Image

Can you post TCP speedtest?
Best Regards...
 
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Re: test from Bulgaria 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 9:28 am

802.11n tested on RB433AH and R52n
Great speed!You can test two side the x86 pc based system?
 
uldis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 9:43 am

... and what about users with RB 600, default os V3 and "upgradable to: V3.x" ?
Please upgrade to v4.0beta3 and go to the sysltem license using winbox and update the license, it will give you a key with the correct "upgradable till"
 
uldis
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 9:45 am

Does each chain (or antenna port) using .11n use a seperate 20Mhz channel or do they all share the same 20Mhz and transmit at the same time and recieve at the same time? I've not found any good documentation to explain that.
they all share those 20mhz and transmit and receive at the same time.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 9:56 am

The "n"card support nstream & 40mhz channel separation?
currently it doesn't support Nstreme, we will try to add that later.
What did you mean about 40mhz channel seperation? You ment turbo mode (40mhz channel)? N card doesn't support that, but it can use an extension channel (another 20mhz channel) above or below the center freqeuncy.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 11:56 am

802.11n tested on RB433AH and R52n
Great speed!You can test two side the x86 pc based system?
Thanks,
Yes, I will made test x86 pc based system(Gbit ethernet) with two n-radios and bonding in each side, also I will put two dual polarization antennas per each side.
 
magnavox
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 3:46 pm

802.11n tested on RB433AH and R52n
Great speed!You can test two side the x86 pc based system?
Thanks,
Yes, I will made test x86 pc based system(Gbit ethernet) with two n-radios and bonding in each side, also I will put two dual polarization antennas per each side.
What's the distance?
Can you post a test for single radio (not "bonded") ?
Best Regards...
 
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richinuk
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 6:07 pm

Does each chain (or antenna port) using .11n use a seperate 20Mhz channel or do they all share the same 20Mhz and transmit at the same time and recieve at the same time? I've not found any good documentation to explain that.
they all share those 20mhz and transmit and receive at the same time.
Hi Uldis,

Are you saying it's full duplex?

Rich
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 6:52 pm

.11n is definitely half-duplex unless you incorporate Nstreme2 in some fashion. Which leads to the next question. Under Nstreme2 -> HT, what is the difference between 'single', 'double', and 'both'?

Will these .11n cards ever be capable of supporting full duplex capability using just one card under Nstreme2?

-jon
 
triztrz
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 8:22 pm

the wlan dont detected with TP Link TL-WN851N
x86 with Mikrotik v4.
anyone can help?
did you update license as per instructions ?
upgrade the version from v3.24 to v4.0beta3
and i already update the key.. follow instruction from wiki

at system resource PCI it detect the card..

but the wireless interface still not showing.
 
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Re: 802.11n

Thu May 28, 2009 11:29 pm

Hi! (excuse me for my english)
Can someone do a test where the SNR is little more ...how to say it... realistic :) (12-20-25dBm)?
 
tyronzn
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 29, 2009 10:59 am

hello

yes i used two antennas on each card,i did an outdoor test over a couple hundred meters using a dual polarized antenna with RB433AH's either side using the SR71A's.I also had two pc's connected to each board on both ends and used the mikrotik bandwidth test to do the tests through the boards for accurate results.I Suspect i might have been able to get faster speeds as the 433AH's only have 10/100 ethernet ports as compared to the RB600A's with Gigabit.Despite that i managed to consistently get 95.7Mbps without any drops.In my opinion i think the new R52N would perform a bit better though
Tyronzn
95.7Mbps UDP ? TCP ? packet size ?
It was a UDP test one way "receive" with a packet size of 1500 bytes
 
fly
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 29, 2009 2:51 pm

Nstreme enabled!!!
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fly
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 29, 2009 2:59 pm

I know Nstreme should not work, but I can see big differences with and without.
More bandwidth, more stability... just like a 802.11a link.
Last edited by fly on Fri May 29, 2009 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
2jarek
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 29, 2009 3:05 pm

But I can see big differences with and without.
More bandwidth, more stability... just like a 802.11a link.
RB411AH has 100mbit fdx ethernet..... how possible >180 mbit/s in UDP ????
 
magnavox
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Re: 802.11n

Fri May 29, 2009 3:06 pm

Nstreme enabled!!!
Big!

Are you running a UBNT card... SR71-A?
Link distance?
Number of antennas: x2 or x3?
Best Regards...
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